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ralis

Mueller's Investigation

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If Trump asks Mueller to interview him, I bet that will be his downfall.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/facts-matter-not-puffery-ex-us-attorney-explains-why-trumps-interview-with-mueller-will-be-a-huge-mistake/

 

‘Facts matter — not puffery’: Ex-US Attorney explains why Trump’s interview with Mueller will be a huge mistake

 

Quote

“Strategically, sometimes you would like your client to be interviewed quickly, to get the matter behind them or to deny Robert Mueller and his team the benefit of educating themselves based on other interviews with other witnesses and the review other documents,” McQuade explained. “However, with this client — President Trump — if I were his lawyer, I would not be advising him to go in and conduct this interview, just because he has proven himself so unreliable in telling the truth.”

“This is not a media interview, this is not a rally where you can engage in puffery. Here, facts matter and you can be charged with a crime for making a false statement,” the long-time prosecutor reminded.

“Puffery, if you will, or inaccuracies along the lines of what we’ve all come to expect from this president, could that constitute perjury?” Witt inquired.

 

 

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~~~ SPLIT BY STAFF ~~~

 

 

"

The FBI told Newsweek it had no comment as to whether Mueller had alerted senior Obama administration officials, including Clinton, about the ongoing FBI investigation before they brokered the deal.

 

Ironically, Mueller is now leading a special counsel investigation into whether Russia meddled in the 2016 election and whether there was any collusion by the Trump campaign."

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/10/22/senate-probe-investigating-whether-robert-mueller-alerted-obama-administration-russian-bribery-scheme/

 

ya very ironic,,

notice how all of a sudden the Trump, Russia connection s not much in the news.   Ever wonder why?

 

 

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I have two theories about Mueller.

 

One is that he is actually investigating the true guilt involved, which is to say, it included Trump-et-al but also has included 'the other side', and has hired carefully to make it seem like he's working 'against Trump' solely (as opposed to 'for Justice' which is not against anybody but IS against any crime from either side), and is planning, perhaps with DJT's approval (and him seeming to support the don't-freak-out-dems, he's-on-your-side ploy, by occasionall ranting about the witch hunt), to suddenly open up with arrests of several people (on the left), and an expected pardon from the prez. That it'd blow open and blow everyone away.

 

My alternative theory, which is "if that's not true," is that the entire situation is so beyond absurd that even cartoons and satire can't touch it at this point.

 

The alt theory on social media is basically that he's spent much of this time actually cleaning up, burying, and otherwise ensuring that he and certain key people cannot be imprisoned, that certain critical paperwork tracking disappears, and so on.

 

In other words that under the guise of a 'special counsel investigation of election interference' he's running a whole NEW corrupt scam.

 

The original "suspected issue" (election interference) was long ago demonstrated as not having occurred, although MANY countries (including Russia) certain do what they can in terms of information / news / marketing, but it turns out that the only thing known to be tracked to Russia so far was not only a tiny amount, and most ads AFTER the election, but most on behalf of HRC not DJT! But the investigation continues, on and on and on and on, nine months now.

 

It could be that like Kenneth Starr did with Bill Clinton, he started off on a corrupt land deal and ended up on trial for getting blowjobs from the now most infamous intern -- it "seems like" Mueller is just looking and looking and looking trying to find something, anything, no matter how obscure, no matter how minor that he can indict SOMEONE on. I suspect at this point it would be a real problem for him to suddenly go, "OK I give up. Nobody did anything wrong. Let's move on."

 

But it could be my first theory. That he did investigate all that; but that maybe he really is investigating the truly guilty stuff, which means he would turn totally on the left to everyone's agog surprise. But I suspect the only way that could happen -- since he and his buddy Comey were right IN THE MIDDLE OF IT and he even DELIVERED nuclear materials for goodness sake -- is if he truly believes that whatever he did, was legal in the sense of acting on orders, and/or that he trusts that DJT would pointedly give he and James a pardon. Which honestly he might, if they truly dig up corruption fairly and report it, I bet.

 

I guess it'll be interesting no matter which way it goes. I suspect the media on both sides is telling us all what we want to hear and whatever happens will really shock the heck out of at least one side but maybe both.

 

PJ

 

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6 hours ago, redcairo said:

I have two theories about Mueller.

 

 

Mueller has a very difficult job.  Caught between seeking the truth and continuing and supporting the lies.  He is bound by his ties with Obama/Clinton while also bound by his duty to expose the truth.

 

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6 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Mueller has a very difficult job.  Caught between seeking the truth and continuing and supporting the lies.  He is bound by his ties with Obama/Clinton while also bound by his duty to expose the truth.

 

 

I keep hoping, truly hoping with the sort of optimism that is probably pathological, that Mueller will actually turn out to be a decent guy and do what's right. Although I can't justify stuff esp. in a position of power, I can see how a person might rationalize that if they don't do it,

a/ someone will kill them for leaving thinking they know too much,

b/ someone else will then just do it anyway, and

c/ that someone else might be far worse for the country in every other way or every other situation than they would be.

 

RC

 

Edited by redcairo
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9 hours ago, redcairo said:

 

I keep hoping, truly hoping with the sort of optimism that is probably pathological, that Mueller will actually turn out to be a decent guy and do what's right. Although I can't justify stuff esp. in a position of power, I can see how a person might rationalize that if they don't do it,

a/ someone will kill them for leaving thinking they know too much,

b/ someone else will then just do it anyway, and

c/ that someone else might be far worse for the country in every other way or every other situation than they would be.

 

RC

 

 

 

 

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It is being reported that Mueller has filed charges which are the results of a special grand jury.  No details at this time. 

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8 hours ago, ralis said:

It is being reported that Mueller has filed charges which are the results of a special grand jury.  No details at this time. 

I saw that.  Someone said that someone said that charges were going to be filed.

 

Too many variables there for me to consider it anything serious.  I'll wait until there are some facts.

 

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2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

And besides, they might be charges against Hillary.

 

 

Which would make the most sense and also show that he is impartial dispite being connected.

If he charges any one else I would think it would be hard because they could challenge his impartiality.


 

Quote

 

"  

The agency, when Mr. Mueller headed it, soft-pedaled an investigation highly embarrassing to Mrs. Clinton as well as the Obama Russia reset policy. More recently, if just one of two things is true—Russia sponsored the Trump Dossier, or Russian fake intelligence prompted Mr. Comey’s email intervention—then Russian operations, via their impact on the FBI, influenced and continue to influence our politics in a way far more consequential than any Facebook ad, the preoccupation of John McCain, who apparently cannot behold a mountain if there’s a molehill anywhere nearby.

 

Which means that Mr. Mueller has the means, motive and opportunity to obfuscate and distract from matters embarrassing to the FBI, while pleasing a large part of the political spectrum. He need only confine his focus to the flimsy, disingenuous but popular (with the media) accusation that the shambolic Trump campaign colluded with the Kremlin."


 

 

 

How can he even be investigating something that started from something faked that was supposed to bring Trump down.

He himself is under scrutiny because of his inaction and involvement.. 

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"It is really too late for Mueller now to recuse himself.  He has already proven that he is a dirty cop.  He should now recuse himself, and then be disbarred, prosecuted on numerous crimes and punished.  His scandalous investigation never had and certainly currently has no merit.   “Lock Him Up!”"

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/draft-mueller-has-legal-obligation-to-recuse-himself-if-not-he-should-be-charged-and-punished/

 

time to drain the swamp.

 

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I don't agree.  He must now see this through to the end, no matter what the truth might present.  He committed himself with full knowledge of his involvement.

 

I think it is only fair to give him the chance to be totally honest.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

I think it is only fair to give him the chance to be totally honest.

 

My point was that he's not, and can not be with out implicating himself.

If he was honest he would never have took the position.  Wait and see

this guy can not go back, nor can he go forward.  

 

What a system we have,,,totally messed up..very corrupt. 

Edited by windwalker

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I can't argue with your position as I do not have any facts suggesting he is personally responsible for any corruption.  Sure, he is part of what happened.  Was he within the laws at the time?  I don't know.

 

The institution will protect itself regardless of how many lies it has to tell.

 

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12 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

"Eleven of the experts say this is an inevitable step in the process and therefore doesn’t tell us all that much. “The real news,” says Ric Simmons, a law professor at Ohio State University, “would be if Mueller had not eventually impaneled a grand jury.”

 

old news.....any updates on the collusion between the DNC HRC and the Russions. 

 

One thing to note.

 

The media was totally wrong on Trump even getting elected every step of the way.

Why would this be any different which its starting to look like it is,  Notice the lack of news 

to very dismissive coverage of it.

 

Mueller, may indeed being investigating something.  The question would better be who, and what...Its not the Trump.

 

ralis, do you even know why the Trump team is even being looked at...I mean what really started the whole thing,,,,Do you know?

 

 

"It is being reported that Mueller has filed charges which are the results of a special grand jury.  No details at this time".

 

What part of my statement don't you understand? For a person who claims logic as his primary mode of analysis, your narrative is replete with non sequiters and fallacies. To break down such irrationalities with responses is a waste of my time!

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Mueller brought in criminal prosecutors to investigate criminal wrongdoing which is obviously different than some low level investigation. Moreover, NY AG Schneiderman is part of the investigation. Make no mistake about it, New York's Martin Act is the toughest financial crimes act in the country. Trump has no pardon power in state criminal activity/indictments.

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Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what Mueller has come up with. Maybe interesting in the chinese sense... I still hope that he will do what is right and just, regardless. Although I find the "looking for anything no matter how thousand-details-down-violation-of-some-regulation" to be downright sleazy, given it a/ wouldn't be the point of the investigation and b/ would really just by a CYA for spending so much time and money and not coming up with anything real, still, I support real investigation.

 

If a 'real' investigation actually results in Trump being charged with something, I am not against it if that is just, if that is real. I support genuine law enforcement operations no matter who they are regarding.

 

I would really be sad if Trump got taken out by something -- in part because since the election, it's been like "nearly everyone" against him, often via means of intentional, high profile intentional lies from congresspeople, childish rants and rioting, and anything that "gave in" to all that would ensure there'll never be a democratic election again without 10x that stuff. It's like giving in to your three year old throwing a tantrum in walmart and giving them whatever it is. How to ruin a child -- and your own life too. That seems to be the case of human nature -- even en masse.

 

There's just this part of my brain that keeps hoping that most of these people (like Mueller) were in a bad situation there was no good way out of and that this opportunity hasn't been the doorway for further corruption but rather, the opportunity to finally try to make things right, even for their own conscience. I know there are badly-moral'd people in every job, certainly including law enforcement, but I am biased in favor of thinking that most people dedicated to that really do want to do the job. Pathological optimism, I call it. :-)

 

RC

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1 hour ago, redcairo said:

PS This is how "interesting" it's getting so far:

 

  Hide contents

HfEiXJh.jpg

 

 

Anything that Muller's team finds now will be questioned.  He should never have accepted the position for the investigation.  

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1 hour ago, redcairo said:

PS This is how "interesting" it's getting so far:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

HfEiXJh.jpg

 

 

Faux News is a propaganda network. Read the book on propaganda that I recommended. Although, I doubt you will. 

Edited by ralis
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11 hours ago, ralis said:

 

Yeah, propaganda's a pretty important topic at all points in history but especially now that our media is utterly insidious and pervasive.

 

Note that I don't think FOX news has a corner on this Ralis. :-)  I see ALL media as complicit in the 'intention' provision of their own propaganda, except for the mainstream media, "their own" is all one agenda, up the line far enough. That includes FOX.

 

Which by the way has actually been getting more left than right gradually for some time now.

 

I don't watch the news of any kind. I have about 40 sources* that are on my twitter, usually separable by "ridiculous lying against trump" vs. "hysterical defense of trump" although lately it's more like "extensive efforts to not mention a whole list of massive scandals" vs. "delightfully obsessing on the left being the side in trouble finally" - heh. And lots of alternative stuff.

 

{* sources: I mean those that claim to be news. Many hundreds of followings of course.}

 

One of the reason foreign news agencies (not counting the BBC that almost may as well be CNN) do better in this country than the CIA would like is because they happen to be the only sources reporting that mythical monster called "news" that got lost in the shuffle here. They surely have their own propaganda presentation of it, but they are often the ONLY presentation of it available -- thanks to the internet.

 

Reminds me of the 90s, me and my then-new husband (from the Eastern Bloc) in gaping awe that France had islamic riots and cars and buildings on fire everywhere and people rioting in the streets and the internet was filled with live home videos of it, and the US news *wasn't even mentioning it.* And then many days later when they finally mentioned it, did they show it was young men with signs screaming Allahu Akbar? Of course not. They said it was "disaffected youth, inspired by a high unemployment rate." Disaffected youth! OMFG. That was not far from the time when the news was theorizing that a sniper was probably a white guy in a van, and it turns out to be a guy who'd changed his name to Mohammed -- which they carefully avoided mentioning, using a name that had not been his name for years, when reporting it. There were numerous other things a lot like that during that time.

 

Not counting the OKC bombing. A czech team was brought in to review that, never heard any more about that, except a report my DH found on the net briefly -- because he's from Czech, so he reads that -- which basically said that they had said, "This place was totally wired to blow, aside from the bomb in the truck down below." Oops. Enough of that kind of thing and eventually one doesn't trust ANY news source.

 

Generally they can alert you to the basics of physical events. Everything besides the most minimal basics, though, is probably being spun in every direction by every source.

 

So we all believe what most shares our preferred paranoia -- whatever we want to believe, as far as I can tell. ;-)

 

RC

 

Edited to add: that screenshot of FOX was from Twitter. I could have typed out the list, but the image seemed more convenient to paste in, is all.

Edited by redcairo
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19 hours ago, redcairo said:

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what Mueller has come up with. Maybe interesting in the chinese sense... I still hope that he will do what is right and just, regardless. Although I find the "looking for anything no matter how thousand-details-down-violation-of-some-regulation" to be downright sleazy, given it a/ wouldn't be the point of the investigation and b/ would really just by a CYA for spending so much time and money and not coming up with anything real, still, I support real investigation.

 

If a 'real' investigation actually results in Trump being charged with something, I am not against it if that is just, if that is real. I support genuine law enforcement operations no matter who they are regarding.

 

I would really be sad if Trump got taken out by something -- in part because since the election, it's been like "nearly everyone" against him, often via means of intentional, high profile intentional lies from congresspeople, childish rants and rioting, and anything that "gave in" to all that would ensure there'll never be a democratic election again without 10x that stuff. It's like giving in to your three year old throwing a tantrum in walmart and giving them whatever it is. How to ruin a child -- and your own life too. That seems to be the case of human nature -- even en masse.

 

There's just this part of my brain that keeps hoping that most of these people (like Mueller) were in a bad situation there was no good way out of and that this opportunity hasn't been the doorway for further corruption but rather, the opportunity to finally try to make things right, even for their own conscience. I know there are badly-moral'd people in every job, certainly including law enforcement, but I am biased in favor of thinking that most people dedicated to that really do want to do the job. Pathological optimism, I call it. :-)

 

RC

 

A few points that one must consider regarding alleged indictments which are proceeding from a grand jury investigation. The leak that a sealed indictment is being served in a few days may come from a defendant or defendant's counsel, or someone close to the grand jury, not Robert Mueller's office. Trump's tweets or public pronouncements in anyway that interferes with the work of the special counsel, whether by insinuating innocence or even accusing Robert Mueller of politicizing the investigation etc. Trump may be guilty of obstruction of justice and or abuse of power.

 

BTW, Trump has no mandate given that he did not win the popular vote!

Edited by ralis

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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/paul-manafort-rick-gates-told-surrender-special-prosecutor-probe-n815536?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ai

 

(edit: adding to the above link that was initially sent from my iPhone)

 

Manafort, Gates Charged With Conspiracy in Mueller Investigation

 

Quote

 

Former Donald Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort and his longtime business associate Rick Gates were indicted by a federal grand jury on 12 charges, including conspiracy against the U.S., special counsel Robert Mueller's office announced Monday.

 

Other charges against Manafort and Gates include money laundering, being an unregistered foreign agent and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.

...

 In addition, George Papadopoulos, who had been a foreign policy adviser to Trump during the campaign, pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI, according Mueller's office. He entered the guilty plea in Chicago three weeks ago.

 

The unsealed indictment stated that Papadopoulos misrepresented "the timing, extent, and nature of his relationship and interactions with certain foreign nations whom he understood to have close connections with senior Russian government officials."

 

The indictment against Manafort and Gates statedthat, "in total, more than $75 million flowed through offshore accounts" and it refers to Manafort's "hidden overseas wealth to enjoy a lavish lifestyle in the United States."

 

 

Edited by Trunk
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