I use to think "inner winds" were silly... Now...

[CedarTree]

I use to think a lot of "body" stuff was kind of secondary to the mind but I am starting to realize the body/mind difference may be a total illusion.

 

In Buddhism in particular the tantric traditions we have "inner winds" and in Zen obviously the style of sitting, chanting, walking is all very yogic.  Body/mind is the phrase for correct Zazen posture or something similar as it's not about mind or body but something beyond duality.

 

In Daoism what would this area of study be?  Look forward to being educated

[Apech]

I'd have a look at Nei Gong or Nei Dan.

 

The winds are really the equivalent of prana or qi.  You have winds, drops and channels in tantric Buddhism which make up the subtle body.

 

 

[steve]

3 hours ago, CedarTree said:

I use to think a lot of "body" stuff was kind of secondary to the mind but I am starting to realize the body/mind difference may be a total illusion.

 

In Buddhism in particular the tantric traditions we have "inner winds" and in Zen obviously the style of sitting, chanting, walking is all very yogic.  Body/mind is the phrase for correct Zazen posture or something similar as it's not about mind or body but something beyond duality.

 

In Daoism what would this area of study be?  Look forward to being educated

 

The Tibetans use wind (lung) to refer to something very similar to qi but there are some characteristics that are emphasized differently here and there. To be precise, lung is a Tibetan concept related to its shamanic roots and tantric practices. It's not so much a product of Buddhism. Buddhism (other than Bön) originates from India and so it would be more accurate to speak in terms of Buddhism and prana. Very similar but not identical conceptually. Daoists work with the qi in qigong, neigong, taijiquan, xingyiquan, baguazhang, yiquan... Arguably, there is nothing that is not in some way linked to or described by various lung/qi/prana.

[rex]

There's a Tibetan phrase for this, rlung sems gnyis med. An internet search for rlung sems can throw up some interesting hits, for example:

http://digitalcollections.sit.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2765&context=isp_collection

Edited October 29, 2017 by rex
Duff link

[CedarTree]

17 hours ago, Apech said:

I'd have a look at Nei Gong or Nei Dan.

 

The winds are really the equivalent of prana or qi.  You have winds, drops and channels in tantric Buddhism which make up the subtle body.

 

 

Great post, can you explain "drops" a bit more.  I am familiar with the term "channels" but not drops.

[C T]

1 hour ago, CedarTree said:

Great post, can you explain "drops" a bit more.  I am familiar with the term "channels" but not drops.

 

Drops (red and white) are basically the subtle substances that coat the inside of the channels. 

Thru the Fierce Woman practice (Tummo), Tibetan yogis learn to melt these drops and direct them to various points in the body, and while so doing, spontaneously causes great bliss to arise. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by C T

[9th]

21 hours ago, CedarTree said:

In Daoism what would this area of study be?  Look forward to being educated

 

Meridians and channels are basically referring to the same thing - and although the more detailed maps of meridians are typically not found in maps of channels regarding modern examples of tibetan and indian yogic practice, they certainly DO exist and in fact there are also hundreds of minor chakras related to this more detailed system which are documented in some of the older literature.  Typically, the most detailed information on the tantric winds (or vayus) is found in the traditional tibetan medical literature, which is itself a derivation of ayurvedic and indian tantric practices of the middle ages.  Much like Traditional Chinese Medicine, the tibetan practices are based on energetic flows and working with the channels of the subtle body.

 

The subtle winds of tibetan medicine are yet another borrowed concept from the Indian tradition.  The winds in particular have sanskrit names and descriptions that are quite ancient.  The most detailed information on this topic in the indian traditions is typically found surrounding practices of pranyama (breathing control/retention/meditations), but again there is quite a bit of information also to be found in the traditional indian medicine of Ayurveda as well.

 

In terms of modern medicine and modern biological understanding, we should be aware of the difference between the Sympathetic, Parasympathetic, and Autonomous aspects of the nervous system.  The winds relate to a connection between these aspects - they are simultaneously involved in both conscious and unconscious activity throughout the body/mind.  They are concerned with a number of bodily functions - breathing, sensory perceptions, eating, sleeping, sex, elimination... and so forth.  In many ways, the winds are the energetic component of bodily functions - although its quite a bit more involved than that in reality - which is why you have all the literature on the psychic or mental aspects of the winds as well.

 

However, unless you yourself are a technician of some kind regarding subtle energies (medical or otherwise) this kind of detailed information may not necessarily be relevant to your practice.  Having a basic overview is often plenty to work with.

 

BTW - its worth noting that the idea of a "body - mind" duality - or separation between body and mind - is the same thing the Christian church used to promote.  The body was unclean and animalistic, false and impure - while the "spirit" (or mind, conscious thought, etc.) was clean and holy and pure and true.  They just called it "body and spirit" though, because the renaissance "enlightenment" had not occured and there was no materialist science to completely deny the existence of spirit yet.  Once materialist science came along, they just reframed the same idea of duality in the new form of egotism... but essentially the denial of basic truth remained exactly the same. 

 

The idea that the body is separate from the mind is an erroneous and deleterious perspective at both the personal and social levels which has far reaching implications that are eventually fatal.  In other words, thinking in such a way will literally harm you to death.  Our modern human society is currently living this reality and apparently pursuing it to the bitter end.  

 

Dualism by way of exclusion is obviously a struggle between an unstable life and an inevitable death.  Dualism by way of inclusion is often called "non-dualism" and refers to the integration of all symmetrically interdependent aspects of existence.. and its not "natural" in the sense of being an automatic reflex - it requires willing participation, and most notably it requires a personal sacrifice.

[C T]

46 minutes ago, 9th said:

 

 

The subtle winds of tibetan medicine are yet another borrowed concept from the Indian tradition. 

 

 

 

Good points all, except tibetan medicine is influenced by both Indian ayurvedic, older Bon medical and shamanic traditions, as well as pulse diagnosis from China. 

[allinone]

On ‎28‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 9:59 PM, CedarTree said:

Daoism

 

It is a religion. If you have inner winds, then you need purge.

If you let it develop you go mad and have crazy not straight thoughts then you will have a physical accident to manifest the particular sensation, it is pain it will make you straight clear for a while at least, might need several hits. If you can recon that pain different appearance in earlier stage then no cruel physical accidents. You could also pray or do other things to have better outcome but still expect to hit your toe and feel that toenail to skin cut sensation- its pretty pleasure able.