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Pros, cons ? Views ?

 

I'm mostly against in case of babies. It creates a contracture -both because of the spine and to concentration of aluminum- that may imbalance the flow durably. At very young age maybe not a great idea...

Baby's vaccination is a serious dilemma for anybody believes in acupuncture and more generally energy flows.

Passed the first years... I'd consider it as less damaging.

 

As always it's important to consider micro and macro. I mean, a wise individual choice can be a calamity for a larger group.

 

It hit me yesterday talking with my grand dad... there has been something like 107 billions living humans in totality. 7 billions presently living. The 2 last generations have been the first the meet their grand grand parents in a significant proportion. Incredible time.

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There's other questions..

Will they be home schooled their entire life?

Do you ever want them to attend summer camp?   

 

 

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Chinese/Taoist wisdom:

 

https://www.tcmworld.org/programs/womens-health/pre-and-post-pregnancy/

 

The link doesn't mention herbs given to babies post-birth though. But they do in an entire Chinese province today, can't remember the name. This is done to flush from the babies any toxins absorbed by the fetus from the placenta as well as the stress the newborn undergoes during birth.

 

Obviously vaccine programs wouldn't be very happy to hear about all of this if Gov. decide to implement this approach worldwide. It won't happen anyway, unfortunately.

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Speaking of the Chinese-

https://www.beijing-kids.com/blog/2015/09/18/protecting-against-disease-chinas-vaccination-schedule/Under Chinese law, all babies, Chinese or otherwise, born in a Chinese hospital must be injected with the hepatitis B vaccine (HBV) and tuberculosis-TB (BCG) vaccine immediately after birth. In 1992, China began the Expanded Program on Immunization (EPI) that involves a mandatory 11-vaccine schedule given to children from 0 to 6 years. The vaccination schedule is compulsory for Chinese citizens but optional for expats.

 

That isn't because they're 'following the money' it's because they don't want to see the return of TB, Polio, and host of other easily preventable diseases that cripple and kill children and adults and can lead to outbreaks of epidemics.   The leaders there looked at the science and made the rules based on it.

 

Here's a paranoid country Russia, they vaccinate- https://www.nap.edu/read/11382/chapter/19

Not because they're beholden to U.S medical interests, no because they don't want to see epidemics and needless deaths and disease in there country.

 

I could look at progressive countries, European, northern European but that'd be waste of time.  I'm sure they have medical experts and serious researchers who care about the population's health and insist on vaccinations. 

 

We're beginning to see outbreaks of preventable diseases due to ignorance and fear. 

 

addon> actually I see that in Sweden it is voluntary but..https://www.thelocal.se/20160608/why-most-swedes-get-their-children-vaccinated

An almost universal willingness among Swedish parents to vaccinate their children is keeping childhood diseases in the country under control, a new report shows.

The study, carried out over the course of 2015 by Sweden’s Public Health Agency (Folkhälsomyndigheten) and Medical Products Agency (Läkemedelsverket), shows that over 97 percent of toddlers in the country are vaccinated against the 10 diseases included in the national childhood vaccination programme. Most of these diseases are under control as a result, the agencies claim.

Examples of diseases that are being kept in check are tetanus and rubella, of which there were no cases reported among Swedish children under the age of five in 2015. The bacterial infection haemophilus influenzae meanwhile had only one case reported among children from the same age group during the last year.

The levels of whooping cough in Sweden have also fallen compared to 2014, though it remains at a higher level than between 2009 and 2013. A total of 45 children were treated in Swedish hospitals for whooping cough last year, with one fatality. Invasive pneumococcal disease meanwhile saw the lowest level of reported incidence among children under the age of two since a vaccine was first introduced in 2009.

The general Swedish immunization program includes protection against ten diseases, including diphtheria, polio, measles, mumps and rubella. Children in specific risk groups are also offered vaccination against tuberculosis, hepatitis B and influenza.

In its study, The Medical Products Agency said that it followed up on all adverse reactions to vaccinations reported in Sweden in 2015, and that their review showed that all vaccines were safe, with the most commonly reported side effects being fever and local swelling at the injection site.

Edited by thelerner

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1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

follow the money

 

Indeed. I don't know about the power of pharmaceutical lobbying in your country but in Australia:

 

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2017/09/14/new-no-jab-no-pay-laws-in-parliament

 

It's certainly immediate.

 

thelearner,

 

You need to go beyond the Western concept of disease. Modern Chinese no longer follow the Traditional way hence are are exposed to diseases like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, heart disease.

 

Hepatitis is only the surface of things: stress, environmental pollution, poor diet, etc. 

 

The rest of those conditions like polio is bad karma; measles is Yang evil...

 

In children they manifest due to toxins not being cleared after childbirth and exarcebated by the schooling system, poor diet, taking cold drinks and ice-creams, poor family environment, etc.

 

We Taoists call it Liver and Blood chronic deficiency due to modern Western lifestyle habits. We Buddhists call it chronic delusion, excessive lust, desire and bad karma. :)

 

 

Edited by Gerard

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Taomeow,

 

You should have kept that post. Scary.

 

thelearner,

 

Did you ever think Western Medicine is about really helping humans in need?

 

A: It's simply a monstrous business with profit as its main goal, this is far from Taoist Medicine:

 

Whenever a great physician treats diseases, he has to be mentally calm and his disposition firm. He should not give way to wishes and desires, but has to develop first a marked attitude of compassion. He should commit himself firmly to the willingness to take the effort to save every living creature. (Sun Simiao, V century).

 

 

Please listen to the following:

 

 

1. Chinese Medicine (one aspect of Taoism) is more deep and sophisticated than modern Science. 

 

2. The tip of an iceberg.

 

---> Bravo!

 

 

 

We live in a world where there is no meaning anymore ---> Every time I listen to these words, I weep. 

 

Modern humans no longer look at the moon and plan accordingly:

 

http://bit.ly/2lkagqV

 

 

More real medicine (6 h that are worth gold):

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gerard
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It's an enormous can of worms, i will not go into it.

 

but if I had known what I know now I would not have give my child all the vaccines he has now ( and I did already give him not all that was advised)

 

I think I would have given him none at all, and polio when he was grown somewhat ( say at least 4 years old) or when an outbreak of it taking place.

 

do your own research and make your own conclusions

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You made me very happy, BES.  I thought, judging by our prior conversation of long ago, that you're one of those people who will stick to their  guns syringes no matter what.  You just gave me a glimpse of hope. 

 

As for "an outbreak of polio," that's a very interesting subject to look into, partially because...  well, not going into everything that can be said about it, have you looked at the polio vaccine in conjunction with cancer-inducing simian virus SV-40 which hundreds of millions of doses worldwide have been contaminated with?  (For my generation, e.g., pretty much all of them.)    Here's some research data, not from any alternative, dissenting, anti-vaccine sources but from the NIH, no less.  

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221112/   

 

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always good to make someone happy :D

it was in part your vehement posts that made me research the matter some more.

combined with my own illness, the search for causes brought me to vaccinations too

 

I'll read the link,  adding to knowledge always worthwhile

 

 

 

and, what you may not know, we have a poliolike illness here in the lowlands, but ( if i remember it right)  it's a virus that takes hold in the nose/throat instead of in the intestines.

 

first symptoms look like common cold or flu, then pretty soon paralysis of limbs and breathing system kicks in. several small children are hospitalized and there is not much ( really no) hope they'll recover.

 

It reminds me of the children's diseases, measles, mumps and rubella.

After they started vaccinating several other new kid-illnesses with fever , throatproblems and spots came up. And  chickenpox seems to have become much worse. 

 

But I still think sometimes a vaccination may be better then not, we do have outbreaks of polio here in the lowlands. 

also something like tetanus, i think it's pretty stupid to vaccinate babies, where would they get tetanus??

 

but when you're having a wound contaminated with bad dirt, then i think the bad aspects of the vaccination are to be preferred over getting tetanus.

 

as to group immunization, i still think that ring-vaccination maybe a useful instrument. We had a sort of meningitis here, some ten years ago I think, they used ring-vaccination and that was that. very soon after they added a vaccine to the standard babycocktail...but never in all those years has a new outbreak of this specific illness been reported.

 

so I'm still thinking that it is about balance, but the balance has shifted mightily,;)

thanks

 

on the bright side, more and more elderly people are refusing the fluvaccin, and there are some family doctors voicing concerns about both the flu- and the babycocktails,

but its a very slow business

 

( now I did write a post about this can of worms...oh well)

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16 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

( now I did write a post about this can of worms...oh well)

 

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

I'm curbing my desire to get into this subject more than a toe deep, or share personal experiences, but one thing I'll say and just leave it at that is, it's not a can of worms.  It's Pandora's box the size of planet Earth.   

 

Pandora may have genuinely believed that being able to fumble with the lock on that box was a triumphant accomplishment of science and technology.  

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17 hours ago, Gerard said:

thelearner,

 

Did you ever think Western Medicine is about really helping humans in need?

 

A: It's simply a monstrous business with profit as its main goal, this is far from Taoist Medicine:

 

 

Yes.  I know doctors and they are about curing people.  Perhaps you could talk to a medical doctor about this.  Ofcourse you can find horror stories on the internet, but talk to a doctor what he does, why he practices.  Medical advances the last century have been amazing.  Yet it is a huge industry, money is involved there is the inevitable corruption, yet all in all, I think Western Medicine is a very good thing.  I think it's been accepted and practiced more in the East, because it works so well, more then the opposite. 

 

I think its naive not to see problems in Eastern medicine.  Again there is much good, in many ways its ahead of Western with its emphasis on preventative care.  Yet because there is so much 'art' to it, the difference between a great doctor and average is huge.  Profit motive and thus corruption still exist, and there are some practices imo that are more superstitious then scientifically proven.  Again that's due to being a wide spectrum. 

 

 

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No, I'm saying its imperfect in an area where mistakes cost lives.

 

imo, Ultimately each branch and cure should face scrutiny on its own, not as a jumble. 

 

imo, vaccines are imperfect, but they've saved countless lives.  Ended the crippling killing scourges of polio, small pox, TB and lesser things like measles, mumps.. etc.,  Our grandparents and great parents on up, lived with these, we've forgotten how terrible they are because, we won.  We eliminated them. 

 

I'm all for any research that can make them safer.  I get the feeling it'd be better to space them further apart and not give newborns so much so soon.  Individuals get vaccinated to protect the public, if a vaccine can't do that or isn't for that purpose to stop a communicable disease, then it shouldn't be mandated.  Recommended though.

Edited by thelerner

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Perhaps in a time, (that never really existed in my suspicion) there was a time when vaccines were wholly meant to cure and not produce a profit.

 

Those times are not now however. 

 

The machine of health in the West is financially predatory.  The worm is present and a conundrum arises.  How far to trust, that which is already proven to be rotting from within?

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On 28/10/2017 at 3:02 AM, Taomeow said:

It's Pandora's box the size of planet Earth.

 

Indeed!

 

It's what un Buddhism is called: ignorance and delusion...two of the greatest adversaries of the human being.

 

Back to TCM, Chinese proletariats in power and their ultimate blow to Taoist Medicine (Classical Chinese Medicine):

 

http://apricotforesthospital.com/classical-chinese-medicine/

 

Internal Arts like Taijiquan (simplified forms), language (Simplified Chinese), etc. suffered the same fate.

 

It's embarrassing and sad at the same time.

 

Maybe because of (please read the Q&A ---> utterly frightening!):

 

God's Jury: The Inquisition and the Making of the Modern World

 

 

 

 

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Thanks. Like this:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/a6d2a690-6545-11e4-91b1-00144feabdc0

 

More embarrassment to the civilisation responsible of the TTC, I Ching, Huangdi Neijing...

 

But all started earlier:

 

http://georgefdrake.org/western-missionary-and-social-change-in-19th-century-china/

 

Under the watchful eyes of the powerful British Empire via East India Company, tons of $ to be made in China and control of another country course like they were doing in India already.

 

It didn't work quite well so let's 'drug the Chinese,' this eventually led to the Opium Wars:

 

https://www.biblesociety.org.uk/uploads/content/bible_in_transmission/files/2012_winter/BiT_Winter_2012_Sneller.pdf

 

 

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