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TheWhiteRabbit

Political Reconcilliation

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Polarized politics creates a world where people are less able to discuss ideas.  So, where does the problem lie?

 

Fact:  When people see people taking a particular view, today people just see them mostly as having a particular political view.  The fact is that the dramatics have ended.  Now that political polarization has been challenged to the nth degree.  This allows talking points of reason to be developed.

 

Examples: 

1.   If you are for Free Speech, another group mislabels you as racist.  It does not make it true.

2.   If you are for political correctness, some see you as anti-authoritarianism or order.  Some people do not make a connection between the long term effects of a type of ideological policy.  People sometimes see these as snowflakes that need a protective space.

3.   If you are for Welfare, people imply that you are against helping people develop a successful life.

4.   If you are for the Economy, people suggest that you do not care for the environment.

5.   If you are for helping people become successful and reducing the amount of risks people take... You are seen as cold, ungenerous or uncharitable.

6.   If you are For the bringing people under the yoke of a massive global system, which in some ways makes people slaves, you are seen as communist.

7.   If you are against a global system forcing the concessions of trivial matters, you are seen as backwards or hateful.

8.   If you are against the mental attacks of people using divisive language like "racism is genetic"... (When long standing science papers prove racism is taught and the more it is focused on actually multiplies racism, if it is videos or images as well)  You are seen as backwards because media and TV is seenby some groups as the end-all be-all of human existence.

9.   We fail to question now, ideas spread by large amounts of people.  We had a saying decades ago:  "So, if your friend jumps off a bridge... You would too?"  People are self-thinking organisms.  Just because you go along with peers does not increase your power.  It only shows weakness because you lack the ability to make your own choices.

10.  We think that people should be pressured to go along with the crowd.  We are not lemmings humans are not just animals and we have something animals do not... Which is the greater ability to create and follow rules and regulations.  Animals have some measure of right and wrong when they come in contact with humans and behave as an extension of humans through interactions with their owners: good or bad.

11.  Emotions sure play a part in decisions.  But, when was the last time you used only emotions to decide?  Did you decide to date the drug addict just because you felt that it was the right thing to do?  What if you found out the person you were with was clearly unable to lead a normal life, because they could not use their powers of reason?

 

We are actually at the beginnings of something new here.  Politics does not mean that you conform to hard and fast rules anymore.  This is also the first time that a political party was "overthrown" to create a series of economic changes to develop more green tech.  Many of the political norms have been overturned towards creating things that the previous political parties could not dream of.  It is probably also the first time in a long time that a particular person, besides me is saying:  What you focus on, is going to happen.  If another political leader is focused on a particular thing... This is what is in their heart, this makes it a danger to all of humanity.

 

Rather than just critical thinking... Any meager brain can "rail" against something they dislike.  The real power is in powers of deduction.  Reason means nothing, critical thinking means nothing if you dont take the circumstances: a, b, c...t, u, v into consideration and show that this is probably what is going to happen.

 

Years ago, when I was young I thought "Question everything" was an awesome policy.  Instead it is the dumbest of lies because stupid people do stupid things with it.  INSTEAD... "You should question and deduce the answers from the existing facts and situations.  If you have not explored all of the implications including the affect that corrupt people can have on undermining a solution... You need to look again."  This should be the new motto of the new era.  We need to clean up our bad habits when it comes to making such a mess of things.  If we don't know something we need to seek out the smart people that DO want to take a look at the long term implications of solutions.

 

There is a lot under fire here.  You have elements still pushing back.  But, it is only empty emotion and the deceit of corruption that clouds the minds of people who support it.  If you can't come up with new ideas of handling social issues and correcting them in a new way while being called -really mislabeled as a racist... Then you are living in a system where there is only one official ideology.  As long as that exists you will not be able to come up with new ideas.  I believe I have already outlined much of the hard and fast confirmation biases people hold in politics earlier.

 

What I hope to accomplish:  It is not so much as a test balloon for ideas.  People are already beginning to challenge these these ideas.  I am just saying that the political environment MAY be polarized now.  Yet, this is also a environment where people are actually going after the situations that created much of the problem and some of them are tackling issues in ways that are different from the ways that their political ideology holds.  What I mean by this, is that instead of seeing things in terms of how political ideologies see them, they are willfully attacking the ideas that created some of the problems.  Using economics to boost green tech?  Using LOA to fix Unity issues?  Using Free Speech to reinstate the ability to even think freely?  Creating a complex Merits based system to create the potential for all people to be reasonable contributing members of society like Norway (see Norway Prisons)?  These think tanks have been in the works for 15 years.  As long as we can "get over ourselves" and put our differences to rest... We can solve things.  I merely mean to help people start to think of these things.  Because everyone is a part of the future.

 

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Good post, rabbit.

 

It might be, for things to change in the manner you describe, two ideas will need to be embraced by all of us.

 

1. Give up rigid 'either/or' thinking; especially quit the need to 'chose a side' - which only reinforces the idea that there has to be two sides...when the reality is we can all be on the same side while seeking workable outcomes.

 

2. Allow for the possibility of something different to happen in the next moment. We have to give others the opportunity to change their minds, to make different choices, to be different than they were before. ChuangTzu called this 'a springtime in every moment'.

 

More ideas and changes would be needed for sure... these two are small ones maybe we could each do, as a start. I applaud your intentions, effort and heart. You are not alone.

 

warm regards

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13 hours ago, Marblehead said:

So few moderates anymore.

 

Of course, an Anarchist should not be posting in this thread.

 

 

I think that only an Anarchist and an Apolitical replying to the thread - speaks volumes as to others' degree of entrenchment.

 

Which leads to one more idea to start with: Lighten tf up - and sort out your priorities. Guess that's two ideas. (-:

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12 minutes ago, rene said:

 

I think that only an Anarchist and an Apolitical replying to the thread - speaks volumes as to others' degree of entrenchment.

Or perhaps it could be that they are just tired of talking about it.  That other thread has stirred quite a few emotions.

 

12 minutes ago, rene said:

 

Which leads to one more idea to start with: Lighten tf up - and sort out your priorities. Guess that's two ideas. (-:

Yeah, that's two ideas.

 

Sure,

 

1.  Set our priorities.

2.  Don't take life so serious.

 

I try to do this.  Some times I fail.

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19 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Or perhaps it could be that they are just tired of talking about it.  That other thread has stirred quite a few emotions.

 

Yeah, that's two ideas.

 

Sure,

 

1.  Set our priorities.

2.  Don't take life so serious.

 

I try to do this.  Some times I fail.

 

Perhaps Political Reconcilliation through Exhaustion - has as good a chance as anything.

 

Peace & blessings to all.

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Everything ever learned ,indicates some kind of error preceding it. 

To even recognize what was being missed is huge. 

Mistakes are the fertile ground.

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9 hours ago, Stosh said:

Everything ever learned ,indicates some kind of error preceding it. 

To even recognize what was being missed is huge. 

Mistakes are the fertile ground.

 

Sometimes failures are also the building blocks, our clarity the mortar that we use to cement and build towards success.

 

10 hours ago, rene said:

 

I think that only an Anarchist and an Apolitical replying to the thread - speaks volumes as to others' degree of entrenchment.

 

Which leads to one more idea to start with: Lighten tf up - and sort out your priorities. Guess that's two ideas. (-:

 

Priorities.  If my silence could be bought... Just kidding :-)

I think everyone wants to be able to build things.  But, what are they, and is there harmony in them?

Good questions... There is a reason for everything when it comes down to basic needs that humans have.

Lets say you have a clean lake.  You are a fish and you love your lake very much.  The carp don't like it that much because they do not understand the difference a clean lake makes.  But, humans come along and dump all kinds of mucky stuff.  Thecarp love it and they tell you how much it makes them happy.  It kills most of your kind because it pollutes your clean lake.  You find it hard to grow, survive or find a mate now because things are so muddy.  Eventually, you find a way to clean the lake by telling the carp where the muddiest parts are... So, this inadvertently cleans the lake.  The carp are upset and you are happy.  The end.

23 hours ago, Marblehead said:

So few moderates anymore.

 

Of course, an Anarchist should not be posting in this thread.

 

 

Sometimes a fresh perspective is what people need.

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Yes, American has missed a lot over the past 50 years.

 

And politics have become more divided and more divisive.

 

It seems to me that most of politics has become nothing more than a leg jerk instead of thought-out and agreed upon courses of action.

 

Any more it seems that one side is interested only in trying to cause the other side to fail.  It's not even about America any more - it's all about politics.

 

I saw in the news this morning that the NFL has been really successful with its kneeling BS.  Ticket sales have dropped 31%.

 

People used Colin.  Politics used Colin.  Colin wasn't even talking about politics.

 

So, from my point of view, there is something in what Trump said with "Make American Great Again".  And it has to start with the politicians.  They are the leaders with their laws, regulations, and policies.  If the politicians can't take their job seriously they should be removed from office.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Yes, American has missed a lot over the past 50 years.

 

And politics have become more divided and more divisive.

 

It seems to me that most of politics has become nothing more than a leg jerk instead of thought-out and agreed upon courses of action.

 

Any more it seems that one side is interested only in trying to cause the other side to fail.  It's not even about America any more - it's all about politics.

 

I saw in the news this morning that the NFL has been really successful with its kneeling BS.  Ticket sales have dropped 31%.

 

People used Colin.  Politics used Colin.  Colin wasn't even talking about politics.

 

So, from my point of view, there is something in what Trump said with "Make American Great Again".  And it has to start with the politicians.  They are the leaders with their laws, regulations, and policies.  If the politicians can't take their job seriously they should be removed from office.

 

 

 

It does.  With the changing of hands, the murkiness of the lake comes to light, just like in my fish story.  It allows the murky elements to congregate and dare I say it... Be brought out into the open for all to see... The violent protesting, antifa all of the unsavory elements congregating in the murky areas of this lake called America.  Because people see it, people are now saying things about it.  It all plays a part in cleaning the lake. 

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For certain there are changes I would like to see. 

I figure though, that the politicians we have reflect the attitudes of the people as they would be , iif they were in that role. 

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23 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Yeah, maybe the lake has to get a bit dirtier before the politicians wake up to the fact that it is dying.

 

 

 

Well,  just like when we start meditating... All of the stuff we push down deep comes out and right away it is overwhelming.  For a while it almost seems that the act of meditating is to blame.  That the fact that you are shining a light into the darkness seems to almost make you think that you are wrong.  America has a way to go.  But in the end, we have clean fish and a clean lake.

13 minutes ago, Stosh said:

For certain there are changes I would like to see. 

I figure though, that the politicians we have reflect the attitudes of the people as they would be , iif they were in that role. 

 

Politicians are just humans like everyone else.  When the popular opinion holds true to their cause or beliefs, they tend to get behind that idea.  When people are following recent fad ideas, news or things or are easily swayed by meager, trivial and baneful ideas... That impedes their skills as civil servants.  When people give in to silly things that they can not easily take a position on, democrat or republican they will shift towards conservative views each time.  Because, they see the instability of the country.  This is very documented.  In times of terrorism people become more conservative.  That is the glue that pulls people together.  Fear.  I am not saying that is right, I am just saying that is how things are.  Further, it makes it thousands of times easier for me to tell you what the end result will be.  It was never the controlled destruction of the Left leaning political views.  But, because of high-risk behavior, the Left already implemented its own acts of terrorism that created the atmosphere of fear in this country.

Edited by TheWhiteRabbit
addendum
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13 minutes ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

Well,  just like when we start meditating... All of the stuff we push down deep comes out and right away it is overwhelming.  For a while it almost seems that the act of meditating is to blame.  That the fact that you are shining a light into the darkness seems to almost make you think that you are wrong.  America has a way to go.  But in the end, we have clean fish and a clean lake.

 

 

I would call that judging the effects without considering the cause.

 

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27 minutes ago, TheWhiteRabbit said:

 

Well,  just like when we start meditating... All of the stuff we push down deep comes out and right away it is overwhelming.  For a while it almost seems that the act of meditating is to blame.  That the fact that you are shining a light into the darkness seems to almost make you think that you are wrong.  America has a way to go.  But in the end, we have clean fish and a clean lake.

 

Politicians are just humans like everyone else.  When the popular opinion holds true to their cause or beliefs, they tend to get behind that idea.  When people are following recent fad ideas, news or things or are easily swayed by meager, trivial and baneful ideas... That impedes their skills as civil servants.  When people give in to silly things that they can not easily take a position on, democrat or republican they will shift towards conservative views each time.  Because, they see the instability of the country.  This is very documented.  In times of terrorism people become more conservative.  That is the glue that pulls people together.  Fear.  I am not saying that is right, I am just saying that is how things are.  Further, it makes it thousands of times easier for me to tell you what the end result will be.  It was never the controlled destruction of the Left leaning political views.  But, because of high-risk behavior, the Left already implemented its own acts of terrorism that created the atmosphere of fear in this country.

What do the words LEFT and CONSERVATIVE mean here? 

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Just now, Marblehead said:

I would call that judging the effects without considering the cause.

 

 

Well, the status quo of the previous regime has been challenged by a different political regime.  When we see the things that people are calling divisions... Is it because we see them as not inline with our thinking?  Or, are the situations that created the divisions really caused by earlier perspectives that were allowed to go unchallenged?  Really, it is a combination of the two that causes the pimple to come to a head.  One can not say that it is merely because previous ideas that were allowed free reign, nor is it the fact that they have been challenged.  One could also say, that children when disciplined "act out" in ways that challenge authority.  This really is the case here, but because the status quo went unchallenged, people are upset.  People have forgotten the social norms that make life easier.  Simple politeness would be a quick fix but when it shows contempt or disrespect like it has, it shows that it is really the problems of the people who think disrespect is an ideal.  To accept is to understand the roles everyone plays in it.  The people elected Trump and he has things he will do.  This happens with any president.  I just don't think that one person is responsible for division in this country because the status quo and its ideals has been apparent for a long time and has its own method of operation... Act out if your feelings are challenged.  This is a political ideal? 

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Lines have been drawn as to what is generally acceptable and what is not.  Seems that most people want to remove any lines limiting themselves but make the lines more rigid for those who disagree with them.  That is called hypocrisy. 

 

Hypocrisy seems to be a contagious disease in America right now.  And it's not just the politicians - it is the population in general.

 

As it should be:  "Other variants of the Rede include: Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill, An it harm none do what ye will. An it harm none, do what thou wilt. An it harm none, do as thou wilt. That it harm none, do as thou wilt. Do what you will, so long as it harms none."

 

Rather today it seems that the creed is "Do what thou wilt regardless of consequences and accept no responsibility."

 

When members of Congress say they wish someone would assassinate the President I think we, the people, have lost all respect for our country and have become so self-absorbed that we cannot see reality.

 

 

 

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Speaking just for myself, While i condone the founding principles of maximum liberty and maximum primacy of individual rights..and thus support the theme of our government ideally.. .. the execution of governance has sucked. 

 

Our citizenry, collectively speaking, lacks the sophistication in political understanding  of Hamilton or Jefferson.

 

Even the most basic terminooogy of political thought, is so ....massaged, that they are used with entirely opposite meanings in books articles and interviews. 

 

The political left is not the polemic opposite of conservatism. The political right is not a trend toward Authoritarianism ,according to definition. 

Beyond those words, folks have sentiments, and if one wants to find reconcilliation then such terms really need to be obviated. IMO

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

So you are wanting the truth.  Good luck with that one.

 

Yeah, Fat chance of that. 

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Hiya rabbit-trout (-:

 

Using your lake analogy.... seems what you want is an only-clean lake... but that might not be a healthy balance.

 

Once the carp eat themselves out of food supply & die off, what will keep the incoming detritus at bay? Always there will be decaying trout & assundry flotsam & jetsam.

 

Perhaps your lake can find a range of balance, like the gentle rise & fall of waves, wherein all fish-lives matter. 🦈

 

Can there be dark without light? Light without dark? Do you think you can improve upon nature's balancing act? I dont think it can be done.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, rene said:

Hiya rabbit-trout (-:

 

Using your lake analogy.... seems what you want is an only-clean lake... but that might not be a healthy balance.

 

Once the carp eat themselves out of food supply & die off, what will keep the incoming detritus at bay? Always there will be decaying trout & assundry flotsam & jetsam.

 

Perhaps your lake can find a range of balance, like the gentle rise & fall of waves, wherein all fish-lives matter. 🦈

 

Can there be dark without light? Light without dark? Do you think you can improve upon nature's balancing act? I dont think it can be done.

 

 

 

 

The nemesis of our contentment is our hubris. 

 

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5 minutes ago, cold said:

 

The nemesis of our contentment is our hubris. 

 

 

True, that. Evidenced by the extremes of political leaders, on both sides, at the moment. Thankfully, this, too, shall pass.

 

High winds do not last all morning,



heavy rains do not last all day.

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19 hours ago, Marblehead said:

Lines have been drawn as to what is generally acceptable and what is not.  Seems that most people want to remove any lines limiting themselves but make the lines more rigid for those who disagree with them.  That is called hypocrisy. 

 

Hypocrisy seems to be a contagious disease in America right now.  And it's not just the politicians - it is the population in general.

 

As it should be:  "Other variants of the Rede include: Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill, An it harm none do what ye will. An it harm none, do what thou wilt. An it harm none, do as thou wilt. That it harm none, do as thou wilt. Do what you will, so long as it harms none."

 

Rather today it seems that the creed is "Do what thou wilt regardless of consequences and accept no responsibility."

 

When members of Congress say they wish someone would assassinate the President I think we, the people, have lost all respect for our country and have become so self-absorbed that we cannot see reality.

 

 

 

 

I willingly concede my own hypocrisy.  It is not an excuse when I say that many people have this type of hypocrisy.  It is just that in the past especially when I was young I was given much to this kind of hypocrisy.

 

This clouds the issue a bit.  Suddenly things may seem murkier and that I may be wrong.  That is the triviality of youth and I am above ad hominem because everyone has faults.

 

What I am for is trying to get the word out on things in a meaningful way that expresses ideas that are not anymore governed by the techniques of the left.  To begin with, this is kind of a lesson in political science in a way because we had to show a political group their failings by using their own techniques against them.  SJWs gave rise to the Anti-SJWs who used social justice techniques against the SJWs.  Yes, it looks like hypocrisy.  But, it was more grounded in the truth of political science and Daoism because we took their energy, over extended it and turned it back upon them.

 

Further, some groups have the inability to change.  Once they latched onto our ideas, thought they had won... They went back to their old ideas and methods.  This shows how ideologies die.  Ideologies only exist when there are new ideas created and spread.  That is why America will remain Multicultural because stagnation does not further the future of anything.  The extremist pundits have become very aware of this fact.  But, their groups will still cease to exist in the future because they still use old catch phrases.  I am not going to correct them because their future has already been decided.

 

Something to be comprehended by future generations.  When was it okay that we were able to hypocritically decide when to use the tactics that were used to shame people into accepting or tolerating any random thing?  If we are at an impasse to the point that we have to use those techniques to reinstitute reason, does that make them any more good or evil?  Such a discussion used to take place in high school when teenagers were still educated about propaganda back in the 90s.  such a curriculum as far as I am aware does not exist in schools anymore.  Mostly, because the excuse used was that it was less effective to teach people what propaganda was and how to identify it.  The implications of such a discussion are not lost on me, because being in a classroom full of people there is a vast majority of other students whose mental acuity would only deem such things as evil.  Never coming to the complete understanding that it is a force that can be used for good or evil.  In this sense, when we finally have a reckoning about such things the hypocrisy about it really does not exist.  It is just that some people understand these things better than others.  It does not make any random person that is unaware of it any less of a person.  It just shows that some people understand how it works better than other people.  When a person uses name-calling like racism or "divisionist"... It really is just propaganda.  When people fall for it, maybe they are not fools.  But, it is completely apparent that what is at work is these manipulative influencing techniques.  But, that is why I would like to see a return to reason, the propaganda does not need to continue if people are willing to consider things from the point of reason.  That is where my hypocrisy ends.  With completely calling things out as they are.  The left's talking point is the point that causes division through name-calling as it's main tactic.  As long as people claim something causes divisions just because in circular logic form, it will always be a weak, stagnant and dead idea.  I will not revisit it because I just put it in a coffin, nailed it shut and buried it right before your eyes. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, rene said:

Hiya rabbit-trout (-:

 

Using your lake analogy.... seems what you want is an only-clean lake... but that might not be a healthy balance.

 

Once the carp eat themselves out of food supply & die off, what will keep the incoming detritus at bay? Always there will be decaying trout & assundry flotsam & jetsam.

 

Perhaps your lake can find a range of balance, like the gentle rise & fall of waves, wherein all fish-lives matter. 🦈

 

Can there be dark without light? Light without dark? Do you think you can improve upon nature's balancing act? I dont think it can be done.

 

 

 

 

What does corruption do for you, personally?

 

If bringing attention to unsavory elements of society and how some organizations have been used in a corrupt way, in the rules of spirituality... Causes these to become unraveled and fall apart... How does this come into a discussion of light and dark?  Am I deciding balance or does balance happen all by itself?  With no matter of causation nothing would happen, but it impossible except in what is called a perfect vaccuum... Which does not exist.  So, neither do I decide, nor do you decide balance or light/dark.  But dark elements become unraveled when we shine light onto them.  So, in a way it is not really deciding light or dark, but we understand what people are a part of by what they do and their actions show what is in their heart.

 

I am trying to help people move past dark oppressive tactics and create new ideas that everyone can benefit from.  Is that not what people who belong to the light do?  Why would we make a discussion of light and darkness a trivial thing to the point of making light look oppressive?

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