Jeff

What constitutes Taoist alchemy?

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I'm reading Tolle and came across this tidbit:

 

"Sustained conscious attention severs the link between the

pain-body and your thought processes and brings about

the process of transmutation. It is as if the pain becomes fuel

for the flame of your consciousness, which then burns more

brightly as a result. This is the esoteric meaning of the

ancient art of alchemy: the transmutation of base metal into

gold, of suffering into consciousness. The split within is

healed, and you become whole again. Your responsibility

then is not to create further pain."

 

Eckhart Tolle 

The Power of Now, p. 40

1999

 

Granted, Tolle is not a Taoist (to my knowledge) and he's not describing Taoist alchemy, but he mentions alchemy by name so I thought it might be worth noting. :mellow:

 

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First, last and foremost alchemy is a religion. It is educational to see how everybody makes it to be some kind of spiritual calisthenics.

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On 22/09/2017 at 3:43 AM, Apeiron&Peiron said:

...

And, as a third and final note: 3) neidan does not date to just the year 1200. The oldest lineage, by oral tradition, goes back 7 thousand years. But oral tradition is dubious. Regardless, the early history of the celestial master school indicates that there were alchemy practices as far back as almost two thousand years ago. Written records get more scarce when you pass that threshold.

...

On 25/09/2017 at 0:14 AM, KuroShiro said:

...

To me makes more sense the other way around. External alchemy seems to have picked up on the words used by inner alchemy?

 

"Ignorant people who do not know this cast iron crucibles, build clay stoves, and fire metals and minerals, vainly imagining that they will form the elixir in this way." Liu Yiming

 

 

Whether internal or external alchemy came first is a very interesting point for me. 

 

I would appreciate a reference to the literature that suggests inner alchemy is millenia old and was the original form, as it seems most likely to me that inner alchemy was in fact the original discovery, and external alchemy misunderstood this fact. 

 

On 25/09/2017 at 0:38 AM, Apeiron&Peiron said:

It's blended.

Liu Yiming was a later generation master speaking out against the external alchemists. By the written records, it does appear that external alchemy preceded internal alchemy as there were writings about about external alchemy prior to explicit writings about internal alchemy.

 

So, this would indicate that "external" alchemy did exist prior to the jargon being applied to internal alchemy (I think this should be obvious...). Something particular, though, was that many of the writings about external alchemy were actually considered to be internal alchemy but with external/chemical substances as a cipher for the internal process. So, it was considered to be a type of code-writing for internal alchemy. Misunderstood by the uninitiated in modern as well as ancient times. 

 

Hence the quote : "Ignorant people who do not know this cast iron crucibles, build clay stoves, and fire metals and minerals, vainly imagining that they will form the elixir in this way (emphasis added)"

And if you were to examine some of the writings with very old lineage connections, you would be able to see the recapitulation of the history of alchemy in the terms they use. They will usually begin with an explanation about the metals; then they will have an explanation about gods or mythical creatures, and then they will speak of the lights that you will see or the more direct physiology.

 

Perhaps this just shows the confusion about the issue, I could read your post as confirming either perspective really. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lost in Translation said:

I'm reading Tolle and came across this tidbit:

 

"Sustained conscious attention severs the link between the

pain-body and your thought processes and brings about

the process of transmutation. It is as if the pain becomes fuel

for the flame of your consciousness, which then burns more

brightly as a result. This is the esoteric meaning of the

ancient art of alchemy: the transmutation of base metal into

gold, of suffering into consciousness. The split within is

healed, and you become whole again. Your responsibility

then is not to create further pain."

 

Eckhart Tolle 

The Power of Now, p. 40

1999

 

Granted, Tolle is not a Taoist (to my knowledge) and he's not describing Taoist alchemy, but he mentions alchemy by name so I thought it might be worth noting. :mellow:

 

 

I think transmutation would be more abut integrating the pain body and thought process as opposed to severing the link, which suggests spiritual bypassing to me. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Apeiron&Peiron said:

Well, I guess it depends. In some sense, energy work in one way or another existed since the original humans. And it also existed (in some way or another) in the shamanic peoples of China. They existed before alchemy (the "external" type) was a thing. 

But, at the same time, "external alchemy" would need to exist before its jargon could be used as code writing for internal alchemy.

 

This is a sensible position, but I have heard inner alchemy jargon being used in peoples dreams and visions when they have no knowledge of inner alchemy/neidan. So as unlikely as it might appear, I am drawn to the idea that these images bubble up from the subconscious as the best way to describe  the subtle energy body undergoing a natural 'spiritualising' process.

 

1 minute ago, Apeiron&Peiron said:

So, in that sense, it preceded the writings on internal alchemy. 

 

I don't have a written source on this, though. But it is something you can find in the dates associated with the different writings.

 

ok thanks. 

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12 hours ago, Bindi said:

...

I would appreciate a reference to the literature that suggests inner alchemy is millenia old and was the original form, as it seems most likely to me that inner alchemy was in fact the original discovery, and external alchemy misunderstood this fact. 

...

 

Humans' first alchemists were likely similar to these:

 

p03tsmrg.jpg

 

I have watched quite a bit of documentaries recently about apes. One of the things I noticed was how apes will sit very still with only eyes moving a bit to observe environment. The apes are not like monkeys in this regard at all. And here is another picture:

 

wang-shugang-the-meeting.png

 

This is a sculpture which is called 'A Meeting' by a Chinese sculptor (sorry can't remember the name). This sculpture was demonstrated in several city parks around Vancouver, BC. Can you see similarities?

 

Edited by idquest
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On 9/24/2017 at 1:35 PM, Wells said:

Many taoist alchemy systems seem to be more or less successful mash-ups of taoist and buddhist (tantra, dzogchen) practices.

In my current opinion, the core of taoist practice is the replenishment of jing (pre-heaven energy, ming, essence).

If jing replenishment is achieved and consequently the jing saturation of the matrix of the physical body reaches certain high levels above the initial level at birth, certain levels of immortality can be achieved.

 

Your successful positive spiritual development is achieved when your jing transforms into a spiritual makeup even "finer" and then even "finer," ad finitum. People can easily get jing stuck in their head, or create blockages with some practices, as we've heard from many a newbie post at tdb. I would not suggest to anyone to cultivate jing saturation.

 

Refinement is the ultimate goal of ancient immortal taoist alchemy that Lu Dong Bin practiced (there are many types of taoist alchemy on the market). Take your root/your base/your foundational energy and sublimate it into a fine spiritual shen essence that can safely live in your head. This is what the Secret of the Golden Flower speaks of. This is what Jesus means when he talks about the kingdom of heaven. This is the achievement to work towards if you truly wish to accomplish something meaningful in this lifetime.

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The main problem with energetic manipulation and amassing big amounts of chi is that it reinforces the meditator and I-thought.

 

Both need to be destroyed.

 

Without refinement (=clearing ego positions and attitudes) the chi will be stuck at jing level and then people will resort to force as "a way out". Then you get energy sickness and other symptoms because all you are doing is following the thought that says "I need to get out".

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Sense of self, or I-thought is how you come aware of yourself. That yourself is a being, it is layered, 5 skandhas in budism. You come aware of it through dhyana a peaceful abode. Dhyana also is not a one thing like concentration. Concentration is some sort of activity.

When i read about jhana and then try to focus on objects like candle light. Its not dhyana or jhana. Nor the burn you see later.

When i focus on candle light then its exactly that what it is, focusing on candlelight, while then doing that by now it is a connotation or meaning and can investigate contents of mind what rise and disappear, mind at some point stops and clarity dawns, you can see it happen. There are some agitation and dark moments like heart breaking, darkness swirling etc moments meanwhile before clarity dawns, objects go bright. That clarity is sense of self gotten brightness what also is lucid dream.

 

After that things go downhill and really bad, then you see suffering. That suffering also can be developed more directly or used like sense of self can be used to get things go through faster. Sense of self is your sense organs and body like eyes, neck tongue whatever. Suffering is the protection from getting involved in activities it will get you into lower body and feelings and organs there like gut, penis etc feelings.

So we will reach to celibacy or well discipline what cultivates all together, its just matter of a thought or Way. So other words sense of self or doing other things or when to cultivate forbeirance, full dicipline is at certain times what is noticed for you accordance to your merit. 

 

--

that happens in multiple possible scenarios. Basically if you read about sense of self, then you can come aware of the self. Other possibility is from your own cultivation somehow you come aware suddenly. Also the scenario where you notice a scenario and notice that you come aware there where before you were on some else knowledge/nana.

imo idea is to get things done in shitty situations where you mainly are agitated under pressure or hedonist, you can come aware and can start mediate and clear out, be the knower of sensations.

Edited by allinone

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In Wang Liping's lineage internal alchemy is the system of practice for creating the elixir or embryo.

 

Internal alchemy is a tool to help us on the Way (hence Taoist alchemy). If it's not working towards creating the elixir or embryo then it's probably something else. And that something else might be amazing stuff, but from the perspective of Wang Liping's lineage it's probably not internal alchemy.

 

But of course this is just my perspective.  :D

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On 01/10/2017 at 5:55 AM, Taoist Texts said:

First, last and foremost alchemy is a religion. It is educational to see how everybody makes it to be some kind of spiritual calisthenics.

 

Forgive me for borrowing your words just to leave here an etymological explanation of the word religion from Wikipedia.

 

Religion (from O.Fr. religion "religious community", from L. religionem (nom. religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods",[14] "obligation, the bond between man and the gods"[15]) is derived from the Latin religiō, the ultimate origins of which are obscure. One possible interpretation traced to Cicero, connects lego "read", i.e. re (again) with lego in the sense of "choose", "go over again" or "consider carefully". The definition of religio by Cicero is cultum deorum, "the proper performance of rites in veneration of the gods."[16] Modern scholars such as Tom Harpur and Joseph Campbell favor the derivation from ligare "bind, connect", probably from a prefixed re-ligare, i.e. re (again) + ligare or "to reconnect", which was made prominent by St. Augustine, following the interpretation given by Lactantius in Divinae institutiones, IV, 28.[17][18] The medieval usage alternates with order in designating bonded communities like those of monastic orders

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On 9/20/2017 at 11:50 PM, Jeff said:

What really constitutes "alchemy"?  Is alchemy just a generic word for "energy stuff", maybe like the word "tantra"? Or, does taoist alchemy imply a specific approach or specific techniques that are some how different than other traditions?

 

Hi Jeff,

 

I have joined this thread recently ~ Unraveling Taoist Yoga (started by Aetherous, September 6, 2013). 

 

It pertains to this book: Taoist Yoga (The sexual teachings of the ancient Chinese masters) - Lu K'uan Yu (Charles Luk), 1970.

 

At the back of the book is found this:

Too little is known in the West about Chinese alchemy which  aims at immortality as taught by Taoist yoga. This book translates for the first time a comprehensive course of Taoist yoga with instruction by ancient masters so that each reader can practice the teaching from beginning to end.

 

Have you read this book? Any comments in relation to this your thread? Any comments from anyone?

 

- LimA

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On 20/09/2017 at 7:48 PM, Mudfoot said:

 

But some claim reading the right classic will be the same as having a teacher. Others disagree...... 

 

Why would they think that ? Not that I want you to answer and with all due respect Mudfoot.

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7 hours ago, oak said:

 

Why would they think that ? Not that I want you to answer and with all due respect Mudfoot.

That is a reference to posts made during last years WuLiuPai visit, when this came up during translation discussions. 

 

Prefere the dual road myself (teacher and books), which still makes me perplexed most of the time. :)

But both buddhist and daoist classics states that the high road (quick and intuitive learning) is for smart people, so I guess i'm youknowwhat.... 

Edited by Mudfoot
Added parenthesis
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On 11/26/2017 at 10:26 AM, oak said:

 

Why would they think that ? 

because the classics say so

On 11/26/2017 at 10:47 AM, Mudfoot said:

 

 

Prefere the dual road myself (teacher and books), which still makes me perplexed most of the time. :)

 

perplexity and teachers kinda clash..

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1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

perplexity and teachers kinda clash..

My teacher wants me to make an effort and find things out by myself rather than having it served on a plate. 

A "find the three corners"  kind of a guy. 

That's probably good for me. 

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2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

because the classics say so

 

I guess some do, but finding the right teacher _ someone that points the way_ is at least to me and without a question, much of a karmic thing and as Mudfoot was suggesting it has much to do with the investment one makes ( life investment not money investment ). It has also to do with our personal evolution: that crippled old neighbour I've got can be the most enlightned alchemist but if my awareness can't sense that...

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clarke hudson (http://artsandsciences.virginia.edu/asiainstitute/people/eastasia/wch4b.html) refers in his dissertation ("spreading the dao" https://www.scribd.com/document/329343219/The-Life-and-Alchemical-Teachings-of-Chen-Zhixu) to what he calls "the standard account of daoist alchemy"

 

it consists basically of 4 steps

 

1. laying the foundation of 100 day

2. refining chi

3. giving birth to the spirit body (sheng tai)

4. leap into the great emptiness (through the gate of brahman, at the top of the head ("bai-hui"))

 

(if the above link doesnt work heres another url https://search.proquest.com/docview/304607092)

:)

Edited by gj551
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bulletproof way to check if you are on path is to read out the sign what occur. Like high pitch sound in ear. And what other sound there are in ear and distinct what is what. Even the stork bird sound in certain time.

 

Like the white noise gets stronger and stronger till you notice it automatically by itself because it has come so loud then immediately a tone comes in and eradicates the white noise.

It is not possible to discern or know, its just tone happens and happens rarely enough i guess not to make importance of it.

 

Also how the white noise comes about. That has a thing too.

--

know the signs and more you can test yourself, what i read and did try out was from a hindu book, there when you have that channel open you should be able to do taht with your nose etc.

---

there is two types of tones what eradicates white noise and there is even sensation felt in ear. Also face skin crawlers and ear worms crawlers.

--

sun, moon, needle like star, vortex- circles within circles.

Edited by allinone

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Little from my experiences thoughts of it. If you resonate with it, I can share more.. this is just some observations / notes. Also: this is not only form a Daoist perspective but more general.

 

Can be like this:


You start by entering into silence. Look from above down. Feel the bliss. Eyes will merge into one. You will naturally enter reverse abdominal breathing (if not - just have weak intention to). Then you will naturally lift perineum. This will stimulate the downward-tending apana (earth / water in alchemy) to be warmer and tend to rise. It is the ”beginning of the awakening of the dragon or snake”. Later on in-breath will naturally be longer. Also out-breath. Note: if they are labored / forced it is not the right thing. You are not there. All this should come naturally from natural mind. Its like you ”melt down” into the breathing and it start to melt / dissolve body. Also breathing will be more energizing. I am not here talking about ”hsi” or total stoppage of breath. It is a much later stage between in and out breath that can last very long time. When in and out are long, smooth and energized you will also feel body filled with prana (upward tending apana). Later on the naturally upward tending prana will go down as well.. but not yet.. Next step here is that you will naturally pause between in and out breath. Also you will make ”clicks” in the beginning of each phase of in / hold / out / hold phase. Its like becoming very robotic but yet powerful. Next stage is naturally staying longer in Hold after inbreathe. Now ”Chinese” breathing will naturally change to ”Tibetan Tummo” (”strong fire” in Daoist terms). You will be doing vase-breathing. (Again: This is naturally.. not forced). Now you are beginning to mix the red now upward going (naturally downward tending) apana with the white upward tending prana (air and fire in alchemy). These two elixirs you hold ”in the middle”. That is in the centre of your central pillar - the lower Dan Tien. (This is one of 4 natural places you can work with). What now happens is that the red and white channels will empty, mix and holding it will sublimate it (by non-thought) and on out breath the pure part will rise.. The residuals will stay or be ejected for later purification. You have reached a balance-point. It is the coming together of the toad and the raven. So many different alchemical allegories exists where two animals (in western tradition they begin by being chained) coming together.. A ”terrible fight” ensures (”water / fire”) And later they devour each other.. Leaving a confused mass.. the old body ”dies” to be putrified in ground at them same time the unified energy is capable (trough series of further transformations) of giving a new birth - this means the advent of a ”new body” within the old one. The continual nourishment to this new body happen since energy flow now is now inverted / sucking inwards not outgoing anymore.  Among else upward energy will condense down like rain (fountain of youth / soma), salivation is greatly enhanced, and one becomes more blissful, vast and direct like the archetypical hero or a wise child. Many have reached this state / new body.. read about the Christian saint ”Christina the astonishing”.. she rose from the coffin in the church at her funeral and continued to live astonishing. But before anything of this can happen an energetic awakening / meltdown and purification of the elements should first have occurred where the channels are relatively empty / pure. There are practices for this written in many books, but the traditions have until now been kept hidden. I can write more of this. But it is of no use if not studied and meditated upon again and again by reading the western and eastern true alchemical scriptures and by doing practice carefully and consistent so all can be verified for oneself.

 

This reversal and interplay with apana and prana, up and down, conjunction, fixation, is expressed in the ”Emerald Tablet” - a small text contains ”the whole three staged secret” - belonging to Western Alchemy (but gives no practical clues though).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Tablet.

 

A general note about such practices: they must be done in a non-forced way from stillness. Forcing breath and doing it while having random thoughts could lead to ”wind / chi”-problems. That is some sickness, headaches, tiredness, paleness can come. If you hear cracks and pops in the walls of your house, don’t panic, its no poltergeist ;), in fact it can be a good sign. This pertains to shedding unwanted energies in your aura while becoming centered.

 

Also: Don’t take this as a guide, just general outline. All this is very much detailed described in the true Nei Dan or Haha Yoga scriptures. And even with them you are better in having a true teacher. Avoid temptation to ”cool down” practice with talking to everyone about it, except for inspiring likeminded, have integrity and honesty.

 

Bodily health is said to be a requisite for alchemy. What is it really? Well when I was an employee working 8 hours 5 days a week my body weren’t deeply relaxed. The gut-brain axis has a deep relationship to our overall health. Now when my eyes meet in centre and I look down to my navel-bliss-centre I experience bliss and joy and deep relaxation. I am seldom depressed (as I were in my 20’es sometimes with school and all) and seldom stressed. Depression and stress are due to taking life too seriously, taking in others problems and trying to manage the boxed life-style. It ends quickly our batteries, vitality and energy due to leakages physically and mentally. So heal your gut / brain by eating much natural Whole Foods, probiotics (fermented foods like sauerkraut), good protein, fats, less of stimulants, remineralize yourself with shilajit, natural herbs, green juicing, etc. As little vaccinations and medicines as possible. Exposure to the 4 elements - sun, pure water, pure air / wind outside, earth, barefoot if can. Yoga retreat and vacation.. perfect combination. If you can.. try to fix a more easy source of income (I rent out my summerhouse and have an own small IT-business requiring about 3 hours daily) so you can ”get away”, really come to terms with yourself and your practice. Allow yourself downtime - rest often. And slowly start study and practice. If we are stressed.. its like the light of wisdom cannot penetrate and bliss cannot melt and flow since we are always in a tensed mode. Here comes the work with body amour, tensions, etc., in muscles and emotional things.. The fire of alchemy can work that out but also Vipassana meditation and to constantly center yourself. If I sit down to take a cup of coffee  or tee in the sofa.. and I start to think about something that happen.. I am far too the ”right”.. If I start to daydream about someone.. I am to the left.. If I just sit down and enjoy the cup relaxing, center myself in my body as well.. I am in centre.. there is practice of middle path. 

 

Note about heat: heat is not a goal. But fire is the thing start kindling that will allow alchemy to work. Alchemy without fire is impossible. But some uncomfortable heat is ”wild fire”. IN fact heat in Tibetan tradition is sometimes a sign of unbalance and sidethoughts. But heat can be felt in two occasions: when finer energies devolve to grosser (like becoming upset, forced, angry, etc.) or the reverse. The reverse is better. Therefore it is felt heat in the sacral chakra when we begin to ”rise the dragon” and when stale earth-energy in legs begin to melt (like molten steel) and travels up to purify. This is good fire at right place. But any uncomfortable heat spreading in body is likely ”false fires” or ”clumsy fire”. Alchemists have talked about a ”natural warmth” like spring warm. Like a perfect balance of earth, water, air and fire. This is the stone, just chaotic in beginning and perfect in end. This is the alchemical working matter, the mercury. Like warmth of hen hatching her eggs. You can also think like this: in an electrical board very high tension can be running and making some very complex, wonderful and useful device. It is still cool and calm despite its immense power and versatility. But if there is a shortcut it will burn, become hot and break down. SImilary in a nuclear power station.

 

Also, one could not overlook the rebirthing and alchemical power of true love between opposite sex by not forcing the sexcenter. It can truly make some change in a person but not to forget is that the ”true marriage” is between our True Yang and True Yin poles.. of ”Heaven and Earth”. The talk of ”left” and ”right” path just means beginning with ”body / energetics” or beginning with theory / knowledge side referring to the two first primal divisions of the One - left and right. Both paths if practiced correctly leads to the Middle path - the central channel - the balanced path - if not - it has little to do with alchemy.

 

 Also very advanced stages.. it is said mostly are occurred between in and out breath. That is with apana / prana - red / white - female / male perfectly balanced in the middle central channel. Various ”siddhis” can occur according to the four characters of the planets (macro) chakras (micro) levels. It is said that the first 4 lower levels corresponds to mastery / absorption of the four (or sometimes five) elements. Each level is protected and involves challenges. After this you become a wise white ”Gandalf” - that is a magician with power over elements (wether you want it or not is another question altogether ;) Everything ”incredible” in western and eastern alchemical texts applies here. The next three stages in the brain - (throat to crown) is the last third crown / work of alchemy - where you will completely transformed. It is a question of 1. Right understanding of theory.. leading to.. 2. Right practice (also food, lifestyle), 3. High etics / vibration / intention. 

 

Some make mistake of saying that kundalini rising is one-sided since it doesn’t ”bring back energies down”. What the true ancient Vedic and Yogic Sutras ment by Kundalini-rising was in fact the ”whole work”. It was jing to chi. Chi to Shen. Shen to Tao. The ”coming down”-idea belongs to a stage when you first start to purify the MCO and other such stuff. It is important but has nothing to do with kundalini absorbing the levels of existence. Kundalini rises in the central channel - that is in the ”prenatal” not in the derived channels. It is the final absorption. And it is said alchemy scriptures were brought long time ago from India to China, Tibet, Middle East and also Europe. Thus we have their likeness. 

 

But there is some hesitation here maybe .. A partial rising of prana and balanced states with various heats, imbalances and blisses. This occur in a semi-purified body and will result in semi-relative-awakenings. This can be good to experience but will force you to retrace the practice and begin again at some level where you have not worked it throughly.

 

So alchemy if done properly is something very great (if not ”all”). The preparation stage is the purification and sitting, etc. Its middle stage is true HA-THA-yoga (SUN/MOON-MIX-YOGA). It is NEI (inner) DAN (pill) - the fixated result of mixing and heating the white and red elixirs. It is the process with AL-(God powered)-KHEM (black fertile mass). Its last stage is ”RAJA / ROYAL” - yoga and growth of the divine body. It is Birth of Embryo (Daoism) and ejection from brain - spirt reborn in Tao. It is the rebirth and Crowning of the Red King (western). The stable state of the Clear Wisdom / Illusory, Diamond and Rainbow body of Tibet. It will give ”stabilization” (also called ”immortality”) in spiritual planes even after shedding physical body at natural age.


About this mysterious mercury or force always to be kept hidden by the western alchemists.. the Prana of Yoga and Chi of Daoism.. The one pertaining earth and heaven.. makes connected and spacious.. Well..Yoda in StarWars (George Lucas had this kind of knowledge by the way) said it well :):

 

"For my ally is the Force. 
And a powerful ally it is. 
Life creates it, makes it grow. 
Its energy surrounds us and binds us. 
Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. 
You must feel the Force around you. 
Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere! 
Yes, even between the land and the ship."

 

―Yoda, lecturing Luke on the Force


Worth reading:

 

Daoist:

 

  • Damo Mitchell - White moon on the mountain peek.. - very good explanations! I like it a lot.
  • Another view of the Practical Process of Daoist Inner Alchemy (translated by Hu Xuezhi) http://www.taoiststudy.com/taoist_alchemy/whole-process-taoist-internal-alchemy
  • The secret of the golden flower
  • Taoist yoga and immortality (Zhao Bichen) - often referred on TTB - good but read carefully with intuition. Requires much understanding to convert to practices. 

 

Yoga:

 

  • Parana and Pranayama - Swami NIranjananda Saraswati

Complete teachings about Prana - fundamental for alchemy - from one of the real lineages today in India - (includes the great guru / teacher Swami Sivananda). Very good since the tradition has many roots from India / Tantra. Patanjali some 2000 years ago was one of the first one to really formalize it.  If one reads with intuition one sees all the similarities. Some people involved in NeiDan claim that ”they don’t work with the kundalini” and such. Kundalini or the Evolutionary Force is the one real alchemical agent of reality / awakening. One cannot bypass this. The mechanisms in body, energy body, levels of existence, pranas, etc., are the same In all traditions - how could the not be?? But the descriptions and symbology varies but with intuition and openness one can read ”trough the lines” and see similarities between Western, Chinese, Yoga, Tibetan etc. 

 

Tibetan:

 

Western (somewhat obscure - needs some familiarity with western alchemical ideas and a lot of intuition)

 

Mixing different traditions? Well its good (IMHO) to have a general understanding. It will benefit practice. But if you find a school with knowledge you will follow their technique since the teachers there will be able to correct mistakes or give feedback / inspiration when needed.

Edited by Jonas
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