dawei Posted September 3, 2017 Legge 23 Abstaining from speech marks him who is obeying the spontaneity of his nature. A violent wind does not last for a whole morning; a sudden rain does not last for the whole day. To whom is it that these (two) things are owing? To Heaven and Earth. If Heaven and Earth cannot make such (spasmodic) actings last long, how much less can man! Therefore when one is making the Tao his business, those who are also pursuing it, agree with him in it, and those who are making the manifestation of its course their object agree with him in that; while even those who are failing in both these things agree with him where they fail. Hence, those with whom he agrees as to the Tao have the happiness of attaining to it; those with whom he agrees as to its manifestation have the happiness of attaining to it; and those with whom he agrees in their failure have also the happiness of attaining (to the Tao). (But) when there is not faith sufficient (on his part), a want of faith (in him) ensues (on the part of the others). Lau 23 To use words but rarely Is to be natural. Hence a gusty wind cannot last all morning, and a sudden downpour cannot last all day. Who is it that produces these? Heaven and earth. If even heaven and earth cannot go on forever, much less can man. That is why one follows the way. A man of the way conforms to the way; A man of virtue conforms to virtue; A man of loss conforms to loss. He who conforms to the way is gladly accepted by the way; He who conforms to virtue is gladly accepted by virtue; He who conforms to loss is gladly accepted by loss. When there is not enough faith, there is lack of good faith. Feng/English 23 To talk little is natural. High winds do not last all morning. Heavy rain does not last all day. Why is this? Heaven and Earth! If heaven and Earth cannot make things eternal, How is it possible for man? He who follows the Tao Is at one with the Tao. He who is virtuous Experiences Virtue. He who loses the way Is lost. When you are at one with the Tao, The Tao welcomes you. When you are at one with Virtue, The Virtue is always there. When you are at one with loss, The loss is experienced willingly. He who does not trust enough Will not be trusted. Jonathan Star 23 Speak little Hold to your own nature A strong wind does not blow all morning A cloudburst does not last all day The wind and the rain are form Heaven and Earth and even these do not last long How much less so the efforts of man? One who lives in accordance with the Truth becomes an embodiment of Tao His actions become those of Nature his ways those of Heaven It is through such a one that Heaven rejoices that Earth rejoices that all of life rejoices Flowing Hands 23 In Nature nothing is eternal. High winds do not last all morning, heavy rain does not last all day. So why should man be forever talking. In silence, the mind and heart are set at peace. This is natural. Heaven is eternal and so is the Earth, by reproducing its own kind each generation. Man can never make things eternal, he will only just ruin things by interfering. He who follows the Dao, is at one with the Dao. He who is virtuous, is at one with virtue. He who loses the way, feels lost. When you are at one with the Dao, the Dao welcomes you. When you are at one with virtue, virtue is always there in your heart. When you are at one with loss, loss is experienced willingly. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 3, 2017 Well, I missed out on the "rarely speak" concept. But I think I have done pretty well with the rest of the chapter's concept. When you are at one with the processes, ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted September 4, 2017 Some thoughts on chapter 23... To quiet your mind is natural with the Dao. As an example, high winds naturally calm, and heavy rains stop, and the active mind with lots of talking should be like that. While heaven and earth are seen to be eternal, the things that they create are not. So how then is it possible for man to be like heaven and earth? He must follow the Dao, and become one with the Tao (like heaven and earth). He who follow the Dao is filled with energy/light. Those who do not, lose their way. We are what we experience, so it is best to experience the Dao. Experincing the Dao, is like the complete trust of a young child with a parent going on a trip. No fear, just the fun of exploration and new sights as you hold your parents hand... 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted May 11, 2020 Interesting note in Lau's book is the word "loss" seems to not make much sense. I see Feng uses the word too. I think it can make perfect sense though. Surely the 2nd half of this chapter is merely saying that we will end up in whichever place we put ourselves? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted May 13, 2020 On 5/11/2020 at 5:17 AM, Rara said: Interesting note in Lau's book is the word "loss" seems to not make much sense. I see Feng uses the word too. I think it can make perfect sense though. Surely the 2nd half of this chapter is merely saying that we will end up in whichever place we put ourselves? 失: Loss, mistake, neglect, miss, fail It is an interesting set of sentences that are essentially in parallel meaning, such as: 失-者-同-於-失 loss-person-same-ah! (alas)-loss There may be some leeway for a meaning of 'cautious' (cautious person) but maybe less so here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted May 14, 2020 19 hours ago, dawei said: It is an interesting set of sentences that are essentially in parallel meaning, such as: 失-者-同-於-失 loss-person-same-ah! (alas)-loss Sorry, just trying to make sense. Is that a direct translation of that particular line? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted May 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Rara said: Sorry, just trying to make sense. Is that a direct translation of that particular line? Word for word. For a translation, then use Lau as a comparison: 失-者-同-於-失 loss-person-same-ah! (alas)-loss A man of loss conforms to loss -- Lau 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted May 15, 2020 20 hours ago, dawei said: Word for word. For a translation, then use Lau as a comparison: 失-者-同-於-失 loss-person-same-ah! (alas)-loss A man of loss conforms to loss -- Lau I can't put into words how extremely useful this post is for my return to the whole book (and this study for that matter) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sketch Posted October 6, 2020 Verse Twenty Three Hope speaks to one’s self So the fluttering of wind does not cease. Sudden rain does not last all day What person can tell me why this is so? Heaven and Earth cannot stay the same forever So what about people? So people who are following the Trail Are the same, are part of the trail. The moral person IS morality. A loser is lost. For a person following the trail, The trail is fun. For a moral person, morality is fun. For losers, losing is fun. If a person hasn’t done something, They don’t understand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
