.

[MegaMind]

1 minute ago, Walker said:

 

 

The problem is you are making us out to be something we aren't.

 

We aren't claiming we represent the Indonesian school, or that we have access to all 72 levels.

 

We merely preserve what we do have, for people who are serious and want to see for themselves.

[Zork]

26 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

See the funny thing is he’s going by an online generic definition, not the actual legal definition.

That is why he is a liar. This is a form of lying in courts: not telling the whole truth.

[Walker]

5 minutes ago, MegaMind said:

 

The problem is you are making us out to be something we aren't.

 

We aren't claiming we represent the Indonesian school, or that we have access to all 72 levels.

 

We merely preserve what we do have, for people who are serious and want to see for themselves.

 

But you cannot answer the question "are you or aren't you a member of the Mopai?"

 

An honest man would say "yes" or "no." 

 

A straightforward liar might say "yes."

 

A liar who hides behind pathetic Merriam-Webster sophistry copies and pastes a bunch of crap.

 

Seriously, I have no problem with what you do, except for claiming to be in a lineage that you are not in. All you have to do is man up and say "we practice a bit of stuff we learned from guys who met John Chang, we're not in the Mopai," and I predict 50% of the people contributing to this thread will say "very good then" and walk away. 

 

Or you can keep slam dunking with your dictionary games.

 

Whatever. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Walker

[MegaMind]

7 minutes ago, Zork said:

That is why he is a liar. This is a form of lying in courts: not telling the whole truth.

 

If you don't like the dictionary definition of objective, take that up with the dictionary, not me.

[Zork]

7 minutes ago, Walker said:

 

Seriously, I have no problem with what you do, except for claiming to be in a lineage that you are not in. All you have to do is man up and say "we practice a bit of stuff we learned from guys who met John Chang, we're not in the Mopai," and I predict 50% of the people contributing to this thread will say "very good then" and walk away. 

 

That is the problem we all have with WMP otherwise we don't give a f*ck.

[Walker]

Just now, Zork said:

That is the problem we all have with WMP otherwise we don't give a f*ck.

 

They're some thick-skulled motherfuckers, I'll give them that. Did Jim McMillions teach them to train Shaolin Iron Head technique by banging their heads into brick walls 500 times a day?

 

Or do they just do that for fun?

[MegaMind]

1 minute ago, Zork said:

That is the problem we all have with WMP otherwise we don't give a f*ck.

 

2+2=4, this is the same in Indonesia, China, and the USA.

 

The teachings are the same.

 

There is only Mo Pai, and Not Mo Pai.

 

There is no such thing as "Western Mo Pai".

[MegaMind]

Just now, Walker said:

 

They're some thick-skulled motherfuckers, I'll give them that. Did Jim McMillions teach them to train Shaolin Iron Head technique by banging their heads into brick walls 500 times a day?

 

Or do they just do that for fun?

 

No this definitely is not fun for us at all.

[Walker]

4 minutes ago, MegaMind said:

There is only Mo Pai, and Not Mo Pai.

 

Right, and you are in the latter half of that sentence. 

 

If I learned how to play basketball by watching videos of Michael Jordan (entirely possible), that would not make me a Chicago Bull. 

 

That would just make me a guy who does is own thing, inspired by Michael Jordan.

 

You guys have learned how to do whatever it is you do from videos, books, and a few dudes who knew John Chang, or dudes who knew dudes who knew John Chang.

 

That does not mean you were ever formerly inducted into any lineage whatsoever, just as me learning how to slam dunk by watching MJ slam dunk DOES NOT MEAN ANYBODY INVITED ME TO JOIN THE CHICAGO-FUCKING BULLS.

 

If the above logic cannot sink through your head,

 

You are just being willfully obtuse. 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Walker

[Zork]

6 minutes ago, Walker said:

 

Right, and you are in the latter half of that sentence. 

 

If I learned how to play basketball by watching videos of Michael Jordan (entirely possible), that would not make me a Chicago Bull. 

 

That would just make me a guy who does is own thing, inspired by Michael Jordan.

 

You guys have learned how to do whatever it is you do from videos, books, and a few dudes who knew John Chang, or dudes who knew dudes who knew John Chang.

 

That does not mean you were ever formerly inducted into any lineage whatsoever, just as me learning how to slam dunk by watching MJ slam dunk DOES NOT MEAN ANYBODY INVITED ME TO JOIN THE CHICAGO-FUCKING BULLS.

 

If the above logic cannot sink through your head,

 

You are just being willfully obtuse. 

 

 

Hi five man! JC 69 ftw!

[Zork]

5 hours ago, MegaMind said:

2+2=4, this is the same in Indonesia, China, and the USA.

The teachings are the same.

Proof?

Oh i forgot you don't have any

We could always ask chang! Oh wait!

Edited January 6, 2020 by Zork

[MegaMind]

20 minutes ago, Walker said:

 

Right, and you are in the latter half of that sentence. 

 

If I learned how to play basketball by watching videos of Michael Jordan (entirely possible), that would not make me a Chicago Bull. 

 

That would just make me a guy who does is own thing, inspired by Michael Jordan.

 

You guys have learned how to do whatever it is you do from videos, books, and a few dudes who knew John Chang, or dudes who knew dudes who knew John Chang.

 

That does not mean you were ever formerly inducted into any lineage whatsoever, just as me learning how to slam dunk by watching MJ slam dunk DOES NOT MEAN ANYBODY INVITED ME TO JOIN THE CHICAGO-FUCKING BULLS.

 

If the above logic cannot sink through your head,

 

You are just being willfully obtuse. 

 

 

 

Information is transmitted from teacher to student.

 

Jim was the top western student, and was tested to his level by John himself.

 

Many in our group were students of Jim.

 

In addition to this, we preserve the teachings from John that he brought back unaltered.

Edited January 6, 2020 by MegaMind

[MegaMind]

6 minutes ago, Zork said:

Proof?

Oh i forgot you don't have any

We could always ask chang! Oh wait!

 

Proof is evidence that compels a mind to accept it as true.

 

As such not all evidence will convince all people, and so long as they refuse to accept something as true nothing is proven to them.

 

The best we can do is present the evidence we do have, and hope some will come and see for themselves.

[Zork]

4 hours ago, MegaMind said:

Proof is evidence that compels a mind to accept it as true.

Scientific proof is something different which you already admitted that you lack. Leave the thread. Join the Bulls!

Edited January 6, 2020 by Zork
something not "somethong" lol

[Earl Grey]

Copy paste copy paste

[Walker]

Just now, MegaMind said:

 

Information is transmitted from teacher to student.

 

Jim was the top western student, and was tested to his level by John himself.

 

Many in our group were students of Jim.

 

In addition to this, we preserve the teachings from John that he brought back unaltered.

 

That.

 

Has.

 

Nothing.

 

To.

 

Do.

 

With.

 

Being.

 

Formally.

 

Inducted.

 

Into.

 

A.

 

Lineage.

 

What.

 

So.

 

Ever.

 

Here is something I wish for you to contemplate for more than five minutes before you hit that "Submit Reply" button your itchy little finger so desperately wishes to feel.

 

You and your friends take the content of The Magus of Java very, very seriously. You trust that what it describes is accurate and can therefore be a guide for your neigong practices.

 

In The Magus of Java, Kosta Danaos describes instances of what are called 天譴/tianqian in Chinese: "heavenly punishments" or "heavenly rebukes."

 

In the books, those punishments are doled out for those who violate the rules of the lineage. Even though I read the book more than a dozen years ago I still remember one instance very clearly, when Danaos describes how he was driving along a mountain road in Greece, divulging a Mopai secret to the passenger in his car. Inexplicably (unless you believe that tianqian is real), a rain cloud followed Danaos' car, and Danaos' car alone, on the road, dumping rain on him while everywhere else remained a clear, sunny day.

 

Do you remember this vignette from the book?

 

Danaos seemed to take the warnings about tianqian very seriously henceforth. John Chang, I am told (by somebody who, yes, met him face-to-face in Indonesia, and he is not a person who has ever been mentioned here), also takes tianqian very seriously. Do you remember the video somewhere or other where he pushed a chopstick through a table, and a splinter flew up and hit a woman near the eye, causing her to bleed a little bit?

 

I am told that Chang was visited by an ancestor in his lineage and ordered to never, ever again make such demonstration, because he had violated a rule against harming the innocent using his neigong. From what I heard, Chang, fearing further tianqian, refused to ever do that trick again. 

 

If you claim to wholeheartedly believe in Mopai teachings, then you have no choice but to accept that this lineage is watched over by a coterie of vigilant, strict, and potentially dangerous spirits who are wont to mete out punishments for violations of their lineage's ancient codes of conduct.

 

With that in mind, there are at least two very grave problems that you, as a fake, lying, non-member of the Mopai would be wise to take into account. Rather than spell them out for you, I will present them as questions. Hopefully other members of your little club who lurk here will also see them and give them a little thought tonight before bedtime.

 

1. If there really are spirits connected to the real Mopai who watch over their lineage from beyond the grave, are they going to be happy about little imposters running around pretending to be Mopai teachers, disseminating Mopai teachings far and wide, and encouraging people to train whilst having no real connection to the lineage and, equally importantly, zero ability to seek out help from elders if/when anything goes wrong in the neigong practice? Is it not possible that some kind of tianqian awaits YOU, MegaMind, either later in this life, or after your spirit has left your dead body? Kosta Danaos was not able to stop that rain cloud. Will you have the power to stop what rebuke may await you?
2. If you understood the teachings on karma regularly referred to by the cognoscenti in the Asian cultivation world, you would know that teachers can be punished harshly for the mistakes committed by those they've taught, those taught by those they've taught, and so forth. Do you not worry about whether or not your willy-nilly spreading of teachings from John Chang--a living, breathing man who has not inducted you into the Mopai and who has never given you permission to teach anything from his lineage--on the internet and wherever else you do your thing? Do you not realize that if you fuck up and harm somebody, even by accident, by handing out neigong teachings to the wrong person or being unable to heal a person who has been harmed by these teachings, John Chang or other people involved in this chain of karma may suffer as a result? Do you have no sense of responsibility or compassion?

 

You feel that sting right now? That's pride, fucking with you.

 

That's you wanting to copy-and-paste the same old crap you've been copying and pasting for days, MegaMind.

 

Pride.

 

Fucking with you.

 

Well, I can't stop you from doing your little copy-paste ritual.

 

Nobody in this thread can stop you.

Sean evidently ain't going to stop you.

Kosta Danaos and Jim McMillan aren't gonna stop you.

John Chang ain't here to stop you.

 

But that doesn't mean there's never going to be a consequence for the little lying games you're playing. And that doesn't mean those consequences won't be very, very ugly.

 

There are reasons some of us take lineage seriously.

 

There are many reasons you would be wise to do so, too.

 

Grow the fuck up, boy.

[SirPalomides]

Is there any basic explanation of what mo pai is? Do I even want to know?

[Earl Grey]

3 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

Is there any basic explanation of what mo pai is? Do I even want to know?

 

Believe it or not, when Zork first joined, he had no idea what it was and initially wanted to stay out of the quarrels. Unfortunately, even trying to find out what was up led to the paranoia and antagonism from the WMPs, so his initial indifference became the Pain Train he is here. 

 

If you absolutely must know, dig through ANY Mo Pai thread and see the nonsense that results. Otherwise, better just leave it be since it's the same crap every time with the same arguments and the John Chang video again and again...

[Zork]

2 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

Is there any basic explanation of what mo pai is? Do I even want to know?

I am surprised that you have never heard of it but here goes.

 

It is an Indonesian system that evolved there and bears similarities to native systems.

It is supposedly not taoist but a system derived from Mozi's teachings.

There was a ruckus made by a book written by Kostas "Danaos" named "The Magus of Java" about twenty years ago. This followed an appearance of a guy nicknamed "John Chang" in a documentary named The Ring of Fire where he displayed electrokinesis, pyrokinesis and other abilities on camera.

He accepted a few western students, two of which are the most known Jim McMillan and Kostas "Danaos". Jim was from the states and taught people there. At some point during their training, Chang after consulting with the spirit of an elder of the system, decided to evict all western students which were left with only the first levels and no chance

 

What we refer to as Western MoPai is the "students" (i write it quotations because Jim wasn't allowed to divulge anything) of Jim and all the people they gave the first levels. It is assumed that the system has 72 levels of which the first two are available to them. 

 

After Jim's death they roam the internet seeking to convert people to mopai and "see for themselves" while dismissing all other qigong as placebo unless they have "objective video proof" with "scientists present and medical doctors". I don't know about their motives but as you can see they have a dead end system that has no opportunity to advance past the first stages.

[SirPalomides]

A lot of this stuff is quite arcane to me because I come to Daoism more out of interest in the religious aspects than the martial arts (though I do recognize everything is connected, and the martial arts stuff seems pretty awesome).

[alfheim]

17 hours ago, thelerner said:

In that weeks ago, you could have made your case and left, instead you keep this thread going and going and going.

Quote

knowing almost exactly what you'll get back. 

It's a two way street. In this thread it looks like MegaMind mostly just responds to others writing in his direction.

[Zork]

12 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

A lot of this stuff is quite arcane to me because I come to Daoism more out of interest in the religious aspects than the martial arts (though I do recognize everything is connected, and the martial arts stuff seems pretty awesome).

All are connected in the taoist arts to an extent.

Most WMPs practice for the spiritual aspects of MoPai not the martial aspects. Though if you ask them what the goal of MoPai is as i had innocently done before to another wmp member, then you will get the copy paste answer "the goal of MoPai is not the cultivation of powers" but never a clear answer.

 

My personal opinion on mopai is "steer clear of it unless you are asian and can go to Indonesia".

28 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Believe it or not, when Zork first joined, he had no idea what it was and initially wanted to stay out of the quarrels.

Yes this is true but i knew what mopai was at the time just not the clusterf*ck that Jim left behind by teaching. I had heard about the eviction of westerners from a site Kostas keeps but i knew no details until i read some debates here.

[MegaMind]

3 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

Is there any basic explanation of what mo pai is? Do I even want to know?

 

 

[MegaMind]

10 minutes ago, alfheim said:

It's a two way street. In this thread it looks like MegaMind mostly just responds to others writing in his direction.

 

That is correct we are only here to defend ourselves, our teachers and our practice.

 

If the attacks stop so do our responses to them.

 

If we had the money we would buy this forum and place a moratorium on all mo Pai discussion.

[Zork]

13 minutes ago, alfheim said:

It's a two way street. In this thread it looks like MegaMind mostly just responds to others writing in his direction.

Oh does he? Why did you get that impression?

He did not answer anything that we asked or never accepted that he used irrelevant sources to pose his opinion as something else and he has lied in every god damned page of this 40 page thread that his was able to participate.

He doesn't respond at all. All his answers are copy paste from his previous ones and all other western mo pai members like the user Ilovecoffee which was banned for spamming and trolling a year ago.

 

And this one is lying too. This thread existed before he joined and he started spamming it because it says some annoying truths about western mo pai that they don't want you to know.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Zork