Owledge

TFW you cannot be yourself -_-

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I just thought this might the the right place to share something I encountered in the game The Witcher 3 recently and it vibed with me (if you can say that, meaning I can empathize), since it is a spiritual problem that is very defining of my life struggle, and probably for many sensitive people inclined towards shaping a better world and a desire for authentic self-expression.

Feel free to share your thoughts or whatever might flow.

I'm also very happy about video upvotes, comments, shares and such. I just can't get myself to enter that whole ruthless spam advertising game. Massive disadvantage. That, too, is a problem related to this topic. Staying away from such seems a luxury, going all in feels like killing the best in me and creepy and generally not possible for avoiding depression, and something in-between seems half-assed and like guaranteed to fail. All I have left is to accept the experience of suffering and hopelessness and voice it.

Specifically the video reminded me of experiences I mainly had in my school years (but is also a long-time constant environmental influence): Refuse to play the bullshit game (or just don't get it) and people will resent or fear you. Because honesty takes courage and people don't like to have their self-serving delusions made visible. Some are so very willing to adapt to imposed doctrines. Personally, I just don't have the poison tolerance of a witcher.

 

 

Edited by Owledge
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My guide Dmitri has this message for you:

 

"You have more freedom than you realize right now about what game you want to play, and how."

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Yeah, I disagree with the thread title.

 

But what Owledge said has a lot of truth in it.

 

I always liked playing my own games and most people resented me for it.  That didn't stop me though.

 

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2 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Yeah, I disagree with the thread title.

 

But what Owledge said has a lot of truth in it.

 

I always liked playing my own games and most people resented me for it.  That didn't stop me though.

 

Well, there comes a culminating point where THEY might stop you. Or cripple your efforts.

 

What is disagreeable to you about the thread title?

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5 minutes ago, Owledge said:

Well, there comes a culminating point where THEY might stop you. Or cripple your efforts.

Many have tried; all have failed.  Sure, they could kill me but at my age even that wouldn't matter much. 

 

5 minutes ago, Owledge said:

 

What is disagreeable to you about the thread title?

I feel we can be our natural, true self.  All we have to do is ignore all those who are telling us how we have to be.  (Yeah, you can't go out amongst the people often.  They will kill anything they don't understand.)

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17 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

Many have tried; all have failed.  Sure, they could kill me but at my age even that wouldn't matter much. 

 

I feel we can be our natural, true self.  All we have to do is ignore all those who are telling us how we have to be.  (Yeah, you can't go out amongst the people often.  They will kill anything they don't understand.)

Those statements clash a bit. It's not difficult to imagine many situations where "just ignore" is not an option. I mean, that stuff is even all over popculture, in dramatic writing and such.

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Lots of people can resent you for what you say.

 

What is interesting is the value and weight we give to the opinions of others.

 

Clearing that social structure takes a while. I am still in a process of doing it.

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6 minutes ago, johndoe2012 said:

Clearing that social structure takes a while. I am still in a process of doing it.

Any progress is highly motivating.

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Always be yourself -- unless you can be Batman and then always be Batman.

 

I am of the opinion that one cannot be anyone other than one's self.  "Yourself" is multifaceted and constantly changing, and "yourself" includes how you respond to changing conditions.  "Yourself" in isolation or in a vacuum is static and unrevealing.

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4 hours ago, Owledge said:

Those statements clash a bit. It's not difficult to imagine many situations where "just ignore" is not an option. I mean, that stuff is even all over popculture, in dramatic writing and such.

You are not the first person to accuse me of providing contradictory information.  One must view each statement as a stand-alone statement for its own value.

 

Sure, most people do not have my liberties of not going anywhere for five or six days at a time.  When we go out amongst people we will be subjected to their views, and their demands of us.  We must learn to deal with that without causing  them to become aggressive toward us.

 

 

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@Owledge

 

Do you find less and less motivation do engage with people and things? Moreso as your spirituality increases? Is it weighing you down? It is me, so I'm just looking to grasp whether we are in the same place here.

 

"Tiring" is a good word. I've been working in marketing and events but my Taoist practices began just at the point where I should have been "chasing those career goals". I am really struggling to keep up with all that now, especially as I know how superficial it all is. I just don't have the energy for all this petty fake smile shit and obsession with FB and Twitter....but it's all I know.

 

My stuggle is to undo all this but my only fear is if I am "myself", I'll lose the job and stuggle to get a new one due to lack of experience and care.

 

I think the words aspergers or bi-polar would be popular phrases to be thrown at us. Maybe we are just fish out of water? Idk...

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You can hate me now when I am saying that you don't need to be depressed and that it is in your power to change it. Don't care what any psychologists says..

Your life doesn't have to be an "experience of suffering and hopelessness". 

 

Why not start with the small things.. Go in nature, breath fresh air, breath deeply. Feel the sunlight on your skin, hear the birds sing. This seems so trivial, but those are things that can easily perceived with a positive emotion. It is imprinted in our DNA to feel good in nature, the fascination of our ancestors continues to live in it. Just start to feel again the underlying energies in those little joys and in every little joy you find, as they may built up in you, changing your perception of reality. 

 

Drop every expectation and especially those of others. Just be. Don't try to find yourself, find what makes you happy. If you are honest with yourself you will find those things that make you happy (just for a little moment take off your glasses of suffering and hopelessness). Don't have any expectation on the outcome of your actions, but know that the feeling of joy itself is what guides you on the right direction and this way never ends. 

 

Just know, that you have every power to change your reality. Start with small steps. What you believe is what you receive, why not play with your believes of reality a bit, it's fun

Edited by phil48
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7 hours ago, Rara said:

@Owledge

 

Do you find less and less motivation do engage with people and things? Moreso as your spirituality increases? Is it weighing you down? It is me, so I'm just looking to grasp whether we are in the same place here.

 

"Tiring" is a good word. I've been working in marketing and events but my Taoist practices began just at the point where I should have been "chasing those career goals". I am really struggling to keep up with all that now, especially as I know how superficial it all is. I just don't have the energy for all this petty fake smile shit and obsession with FB and Twitter....but it's all I know.

 

My stuggle is to undo all this but my only fear is if I am "myself", I'll lose the job and stuggle to get a new one due to lack of experience and care.

 

I think the words aspergers or bi-polar would be popular phrases to be thrown at us. Maybe we are just fish out of water? Idk...

Fish out of water, a common theme of the human experience, in some felt more strongly. My situation differs from yours in that I am not IN the at least self-sustaining albeit spiritually draining process, but I am out of it (dropped out due to increasing burnout and lack of future prospects), which is probably even worse, since I cannot even try to find a balance between those. It's an empty future and a present without motion. So imagine you lost your job and the pain got ever-greater and any attempt to just get by increases it further.

 

@phil48

Been there, done that. Smart advice is conveniently emotionally invalidating, that's why there's so much floating around. Everybody wants to imagine people can snap their fingers and be happy, rarely anybody wants to see they can snap their fingers and make someone else happy. The distancing is fear, the connection is love.

Small steps of positive experiences create a memory that is tormenting in the face of dynamic adverse reactions from the environment. If for anything pleasant you do your best to experience you have to expect something very shitty following soon, how long do you even keep trying?

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@Owledge

 

Gosh. I understand the predicament fully though as I can only really see those two as options: slave away with the rest of the world or become empty without any of it.

 

But the Tao teaches us that the pleaseure is to be found, and in moments, I do find this. But in moments.

 

I've gone back to the cushion recently. That helps somewhat, I must keep it up! All the best to you.

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@Owledge

 

Spirituality can lead to burn-out and an unhealthy obsession about clearing yourself, being a better you, seing others as flawed etc.


The problem with most spiritual paths is they focus on getting out of here to "ascend" to a higher state. And then you start talking about crystals, energies etc and you stop relating to ordinary people.

 

You join spiritual groups where you communicate in the new language leading you further away from ordinary folks.

 

I don't think there is an easy solution to this other than to drop the spiritual ego structures and intensely focus on the good and fun in all people rather than their flaws.

 

Also finding a way of life that you want, it doesn't even need to be spiritual in any sense. Just a way of life that makes you happy.

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On ‚Äé08‚Äé.‚Äé08‚Äé.‚Äé2017 at 9:36 AM, Anastasia said:

My guide Dmitri has this message for you:

 

"You have more freedom than you realize right now about what game you want to play, and how."

 

Statistics speaks other thing

i have so many games and things i can or could do, but i don't find any good reason to do so. I check other peoples accounts i see like 100 games, but only played 1 hour average.

On top of that, i have freedom to walk around, do same things what i can do in games in real life.

 

so i suspect i don't do nothing in paradise where every possible imagination could come true. That sounds most cool thing but its boring and empty in the end after few tries or so.

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8 minutes ago, allinone said:

 

Statistics speaks other thing

i have so many games and things i can or could do, but i don't find any good reason to do so. I check other peoples accounts i see like 100 games, but only played 1 hour average.

On top of that, i have freedom to walk around, do same things what i can do in games in real life.

 

so i suspect i don't do nothing in paradise where every possible imagination could come true. That sounds most cool thing but its boring and empty in the end after few tries or so.

I don't think it was in reference to computer games, but more metaphorical. But even that didn't leave an impression. So many things bothering me about it, but too tiring to go through it. Not worth it.

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5 minutes ago, Owledge said:

I don't think it was in reference to computer games, but more metaphorical. But even that didn't leave an impression. So many things bothering me about it, but too tiring to go through it. Not worth it.

 

it was literal. There is a solution, well there is a thing(happening) after what i am satisfied, and then i can do play games or do whatever, i don't see a burden anymore or weight or what holds me back...till next time, then again rinse and repeat(basically every single day same circle).

Edited by allinone

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like now i already did my attack on other thread, i noticed i am needy, now i am kind of satisfied. Ok i had a base from morning happenings, so the forum stuff isn't the main thing. But still there is a solution what makes me a state of mind where everything is cool.

When i meet someone in RL, we fight and then go on with business or whatever there is. But still i do discipline and all sorts of things what do work when i don't do them, i just have to bear the burden and then that load will give me satisfaction at some point.

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As a side comment, since marketing was mentioned: I just saw another person somewhere being an example of what's so disturbing. Was eager to send her ideas about how to be noticed. Used the line "If you want people to be interested in you, you have to be interested in them" as justification for spammy and deceptive advertising, for merely making your presence known and using typical audience engagement techniques. (Basically energy harvesting.) I'm always wondering how much/often that is just self-bullshitting and the teaching activity a search for external validation or whether they're really being trained by society and/or themselves to be sociopaths, unable to distinguish advertising to someone from being interested in them as a person. It often seems to me like quite a lot of people don't really have a concept of sincerity, of any kind of non-selfish motivation, and, as is actually common for sociopaths especially with limited power, are merely learning to imitate and think there is only imitation, that that's the real thing that motivates everybody. This causes them to blend in more or less elegantly and only when put to the test will you get a moment-of-truth like experience. (I had some really fucked up and painful experiences in that area. It is hard to be skeptical of certain people if so many others are not. But those are just in it for the pleasant illusion, not the truth.)

I am worried this might be a conceiled epidemic and that the widespread fear of getting to that moment of truth leads to an increasing loss of grasp on and living of the real thing.

Maybe Star Trek is right and empaths are not from this planet, hah.

Edited by Owledge
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17 hours ago, Owledge said:

As a side comment, since marketing was mentioned: I just saw another person somewhere being an example of what's so disturbing. Was eager to send her ideas about how to be noticed. Used the line "If you want people to be interested in you, you have to be interested in them" as justification for spammy and deceptive advertising, for merely making your presence known and using typical audience engagement techniques. (Basically energy harvesting.) I'm always wondering how much/often that is just self-bullshitting and the teaching activity a search for external validation or whether they're really being trained by society and/or themselves to be sociopaths, unable to distinguish advertising to someone from being interested in them as a person. It often seems to me like quite a lot of people don't really have a concept of sincerity, of any kind of non-selfish motivation, and, as is actually common for sociopaths especially with limited power, are merely learning to imitate and think there is only imitation, that that's the real thing that motivates everybody.

 

The people I recruit in my job are these people. We play this silly game of "Hi, how are you? We have an exciting campaign etc etc". The truth is, I really don't care.

 

Their response is always "I love being out there, engaging with the public. I'm a positive yadda yadda ya. Very hard working yadda yadda ya. Love aiming for targets yadda yadda ya". But it's all business. All it takes is for a tiny thing to upset them then we see the darker side of their personalities.

 

I also came back from a conference last weekend featuring lots of Youtube vloggers. It's all narcissism - pull expressive faces at a camera and come at it with energy. Once there is a good following, companies endorse them so then it all become stories like "this is what I believe in, these products are genuinely great etc." Which may or may not be true. But what IS true is that they wouldn't do it with so much passion or even at all if they weren't being paid. There are a lot of exceptions, but I'm speaking on the whole.

 

The career is known as being an "influencer". In other words, payment for influencing people. Just the same way as our staff "promote and sell" stuff. So I would say there is little sincerity, but the illusion works and keeps customers engaged and they get a dig out of all this corporate nonsense anyway. It's all about competition and rising to the top in this life, and having a winning team etc. That's just how we have been engineered.

 

But that's all fine. I'm a part of it, I think we all have to be to an extent. But we can try our best to limit it as best we can. Like now, for instance. Business is quiet...am I being proactive and hunting more clients? Nope. Just writing this then I'm popping out for a walk by the canal and training my Tai Chi :)

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Rara, that kind of faking for business seems acceptable as long as you deliver the goods. I had someone at my door a few months ago and basically she got me to sign a paper to transfer me to a cheaper electricity/gas provider, which would start in August. I called her because I haven't received any notice from the new provider yet, it's just that her phone number doesn't seem to work. Well now, called the new provider and they don't even have my address registered. That makes me worried as she did this small talk with me that ended up in lots of stuff about myself and I wonder what's going on.. Hope they can't do anything to rip me off with my signature and bank number.. I should be more careful next time.

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3 hours ago, thursday said:

Rara, that kind of faking for business seems acceptable as long as you deliver the goods. I had someone at my door a few months ago and basically she got me to sign a paper to transfer me to a cheaper electricity/gas provider, which would start in August. I called her because I haven't received any notice from the new provider yet, it's just that her phone number doesn't seem to work. Well now, called the new provider and they don't even have my address registered. That makes me worried as she did this small talk with me that ended up in lots of stuff about myself and I wonder what's going on.. Hope they can't do anything to rip me off with my signature and bank number.. I should be more careful next time.

 

Sure. We can't have a world where we don't market things to each other, otherwise we wouldn't function. Just finding "sincerity", how Owledge put it, is hard. Mainly because our species CAN only truly look out for ourselves. Even martyrdom has a selfish-motive to it, as silly as it is!

 

That's a strange story about the door-to-door seller though. Sometimes it can just be incompetence though. Simply a lack of communication from the field to the office...the fact that the company exists is comforting to hear. Keep your eye on you bank balance though, you never know :D

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12 minutes ago, Rara said:

Mainly because our species CAN only truly look out for ourselves. Even martyrdom has a selfish-motive to it, as silly as it is!

 

 

The selfish motivation point is highly philosophical and thus depends on the vantage point. But after my observations and ponderings I think it is of little relevance for creating good results. (Tends to breed cynicism and beliefs of a fixed 'human nature'.)

People have sacrificed their own life for things where you cannot even claim they were afraid of living without having done anything. They did what they instantly decided was right, regardless of the risk to themselves. I guess it boils down to whether one wants to consider a drive of love as fear of not experiencing that love. But as soon as someone assumes a view that risking the own life for the benefit of others is preferrable to not doing it, it serves love, the awareness of the big picture and how we are all connected. Even if you argue it was motivated by some type of fear, it was still altruistic, and that is what counts, because I pose that the mind is a profoundly fear-based tool and without any fear this experience wouldn't exist and there would only be the infinite divine realm full of love which cannot be experienced since there's no opposite to contrast it with.

As the cause of altruism can be driven by fear, so can the cause of egotism be driven by love, in the case of self-love.

 

In essence: Do not confuse the fear/love duality with the egotism/altruism duality.

Edited by Owledge
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