Starjumper

An unethical teacher

117 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, dwai said:

This is a golden bell demo shown by our Taiji brother's Hsing Yi teacher (watch till the end) (iinm @fabie can confirm) --

 

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Yeah, that's pretty much what they were like in the video. They were basically just standing there taking the blows. I suspected GL didn't have a unique system. :P 

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24 minutes ago, dwai said:

This is a golden bell demo shown by our Taiji brother's Hsing Yi teacher (watch till the end) (iinm @fabie can confirm) --

 

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18 minutes ago, morning dew said:

Yeah, that's pretty much what they were like in the video. They were basically just standing there taking the blows. I suspected GL didn't have a unique system. :P 

 

I can't figure out how to make the multiquote system work so this will have to do.

 

It looks like we have a problem with definitions here, or I'm not getting what exactly is being demonstrated.

 

What I've learned about fajin is that it is an explosive strike, just like a one inch punch, which can be used to explode internal organs.  My Yang tai chi teacher said that fajin is a strike which starts at the surface of the body and then penetrates an inch or two with explosive force.  Tchoung Ta Tchen said that if you use fajin on anyone that they won't be your friend any more (dead or alive).  So we never use fajin on a person, only against inanimate objects.

 

What I'm seeing in the video looks to me like a one inch push rather than fajin.

 

Once I was visiting my chi kung brother and fearless clan leader and we got together with some of his othe MA family for a bit of celebration in his friend's dojo. which was a big metal building about the size of a three or four car garage.  I did a fajin against a rubber block that was mounted on one of the metal beams, it was used for kicking practice and was above head height.  My brother gave me a little pointer and I tried it again against the little rubber block and the building resounded with a loud BOOM, as if a truck had just run into it, and everyone appeared to be duly impressed  :)   Except for Wells, of course, who is a world expert on fajin.

 

You do NOT want to do that against another living being.  Just saying.  So ... I didn't see any fajin there in that video, that is all.

Edited by Starjumper
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5 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

 

I can't figure out how to make the multiquote system work so this will have to do.

 

It looks like we have a problem with definitions here, or I'm not getting what exactly is being demonstrated.

 

What I've learned about fajin is that it is an explosive strike, just like a one inch punch, which can be used to explode internal organs.  My Yang tai chi teacher said that fajin is a strike which starts at the surface of the body and then penetrates an inch or two with explosive force.  Tchoung Ta Tchen said that if you use fajin on anyone that they won't be your friend any more (dead or alive).  So we never use fajin on a person, only against inanimate objects.

 

What I'm seeing in the video looks to me like a one inch push rather than fajin.

 

Once I was visiting my chi kung brother and fearless clan leader and we got together with some of his othe MA family for a bit of celebration in his friend's dojo. which was a big metal building about the size of a three or four car garage.  I did a fajin against a rubber block that was mounted on one of the metal beams, it was used for kicking practice and was above head height.  My brother gave me a little pointer and I tried it again against the little rubber block and the building resounded with a loud BOOM, as if a truck had just run into it, and everyone appeared to be duly impressed  :)   Except for Wells, of course, who is a world expert on fajin.

 

You do NOT want to do that against another living being.  Just saying.  So ... I didn't see any fajin there in that video, that is all.

Fajin can be done with different types of power. What we normally do/demonstrate is Long power. Long power is like a Push, though depending on what we are doing (ward off, press, push) will feel different to the recipient (thought it might look the same to onlookers).  

 

When we do short power, it is a higher frequency wavefront that penetrates the body (and can break bones). 

When we receive that, it literally knocks the mind out of the body. The mind stays in the original point and the body flies backward (or bones shatter). 

 

When we do cold power, it too is a high frequency wavefront but it explodes inside the body (and can stop organs). The body becomes cold (that's why it is called Cold power).

 

All three are valid methods of Fajin. We only do Long power for demonstrations so we don't break our brothers and sisters :)

(or Masters don't break their students)...Toys can be replaced, real people can't. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

 

I can't figure out how to make the multiquote system work so this will have to do.

 

It looks like we have a problem with definitions here, or I'm not getting what exactly is being demonstrated.

 

 

 

I thought Dwai was answering my question about whether Golden Bell needed to be switched on unlike Iron Shirt for things such as being sucker punched?

 

I assumed the relevant bit of the video was right at the end when the guy didn't know exactly when the blow was going to come (although he had a bit of preparation). This was pretty much the same as the Iron Shirt demo in the Shaolin monks video I had.

Edited by morning dew
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3 minutes ago, morning dew said:

 

I thought Dwai was answering my question about whether Golden Bell needed to be switched on unlike Iron Shirt for things such as being sucker punched?

 

I assumed the relevant bit of the video was right at the end when the guy didn't know exactly when the blow was going to come (although he had a bit of preparation). This was pretty much the same as the Iron Shirt demo in the Shaolin monks video I had.

Golden Bell is turned on as needed. Not all the time. How someone is able to apply Golden Bell, imho, is by developing their listening and understanding power first. When one has developed listening and understanding power (ting and tong jin respectively), they will know that the strike is coming before it arrives. Golden bell can be used as protection against sneak attacks or as a tool to make an assailant think they "got you" but actually when the strike lands, they are the ones who were "got"...

:)

 

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That's fascinating. Is it powerful enough to stop someone doing something like a knee-break with a kick? Or it's something just for the upper body as Iron Shirt?

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1 hour ago, morning dew said:

 

This is an interesting comment as well, I thought.

 

Would another difference be Iron Shirt is always on while Golden Bell needs to be switched on? Iron shirt is basically just conditioning and chi packing, isn't it? Once you've done it, the barrier's there. If you get sucker punched it's still going to work, isn't it? There's nothing to prepare before being hit, is there? Or is there something?

 

I'm trying to remember from the videos I've seen. There was a bit of preparation for things like Iron Throat and Iron Eggs, I think.

 

There are numerous different styles of all of the different Taoist Internal Arts. None of these are better or worse than any other but for them to work then they must adhere to certain principles. These principles are the real "Inner" teaching. This is applicable to Iron Shirt, Iron Body or Golden Bell training.

 

You are also correct in your assumption that the Iron Body must be present at all times. What use is such a thing if you have to go through a series of exercises before you can withstand a blow? Such a thing is nonsense.

 

Much rubbish is spoken and written regarding Iron Shirt training but at its basis is the ability to suffer a grievous blow and still be capable of fighting your way out of a corner or even running away from your attacker.

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4 minutes ago, Chang said:

 

You are also correct in your assumption that the Iron Body must be present at all times. What use is such a thing if you have to go through a series of exercises before you can withstand a blow? Such a thing is nonsense.

 

 

Yeah, it seems a bit pointless going to all that effort for Iron Body, otherwise.

Edited by morning dew

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25 minutes ago, morning dew said:

That's fascinating. Is it powerful enough to stop someone doing something like a knee-break with a kick? Or it's something just for the upper body as Iron Shirt?

It is powerful enough to send someone flying 20-25 feet away.

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4 minutes ago, dwai said:

It is powerful enough to send someone flying 20-25 feet away.

 

That is something I would like to see...

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Just now, Jeff said:

 

That is something I would like to see...

I don't have the skill to do this. My teacher and Master Liao do.

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5 minutes ago, dwai said:

It is powerful enough to send someone flying 20-25 feet away.

 

So it would be like somebody trying to kick a live rail on a railway line? As soon as their foot makes contact, they would get a shock or go flying?

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Just now, morning dew said:

 

So it would be like somebody trying to kick a live rail on a railway line? As soon as their foot makes contact, they would get a shock or go flying?

Yes precisely...

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2 minutes ago, dwai said:

I don't have the skill to do this. My teacher and Master Liao do.

 

Still would like to meet him some day. :)

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Just now, Jeff said:

 

Still would like to meet him some day. :)

Let us discuss offline...Its best if you reach out to him directly and request a meeting :)

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7 hours ago, dwai said:

Fajin can be done with different types of power. What we normally do/demonstrate is Long power. Long power is like a Push, though depending on what we are doing (ward off, press, push) will feel different to the recipient (thought it might look the same to onlookers).  

 

When we do short power, it is a higher frequency wavefront that penetrates the body (and can break bones). 

When we receive that, it literally knocks the mind out of the body. The mind stays in the original point and the body flies backward (or bones shatter). 

 

When we do cold power, it too is a high frequency wavefront but it explodes inside the body (and can stop organs). The body becomes cold (that's why it is called Cold power).

 

All three are valid methods of Fajin. We only do Long power for demonstrations so we don't break our brothers and sisters :)

(or Masters don't break their students)...Toys can be replaced, real people can't. 

 

Here's a nice list of jins (jings) --  http://www.denner.org/reinhard/neijia/terms/listOfJings.html

 

Wow, there's a lot of jings out there!   I guess my teachers never mentioned the pushing type of long jin because they just called it pushing, and we didn't put a lot of stock in pushing anyway, the preferred way was to stop and drop someone ASAP with something more like what you called cold power or short power.  I didn't see fajin in that list.

 

One of my teachers used to say  "If you break your partner you don't get a new one"  :)

Edited by Starjumper
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