Starjumper

An unethical teacher

117 posts in this topic

I think it will be good to start this thread with a short video of Clyman doing some tai chi, his horrendous version of it.  He claims to be the head of a lineage but he was rejected and excommunicated by his own teacher.  In this video it is easy to see that he holds a lot of tension in his body.

 

 

One of the things that motivated me to start this thread is that I received this information about Clyman, who claims to have been a student of Master Liao:

 

Clyman never studied with Master Liao. He was Ron Hoffman's student. Ron and my Master, Jose Perez, were both Green Dragon Society members back in the late 60s/early 70s in Chicago. 

 

Ron kicked Clyman out from his school. Clyman might have learnt some more stuff from some other teacher of the system (not sure of the details). However, Master Liao does not recognize Clyman teaching Temple Style.

 

As you rightly pointed out, Clyman's way of doing "Tai chi" is embarrassing to say the least. Just looking at his videos makes me want to throw up (same reaction as you had). There is something terribly wrong energetically with the man. 

 

In temple style, we are warned to be very careful when doing condensing breath as if we over-do it, we will damage our mind and pack in junk if we do it when we're not prepared sufficiently, with at least 2-3 years of tai chi form practice to develop sung. In fact, if you ever have the misfortune of watching Clyman do "condensing breathing", it is almost identical to the way he does the form. He double-weights mentally and physically. It is almost a given that he has messed up his own mind and also by propagating this wrong method and falsely claiming lineage, he has hurt many people.

 

Both my First teacher, a very powerful albeit martially uninterested Senior Master student of Master Liao (it was he who made me an indoor student of Temple Style)  and Master Jose (a legendary figure in Temple style world, as being the only person who has been known to have similar degree of prowess energetically and spiritually as Master Liao),  with whom I've been studying since the past 3 years have told me that they have dealt with Gary's students who were hurt during the training. Some people just go "nuts" and can't be repaired. Others have come in with broken ribs (which Gary gave them during his "testing" their Golden Bell) or other structural damage from doing the form wrong.

 

If you see my teachers do the temple style long form, they look and flow like a river! They are reclusive and don't want to interact with the world much any more. My first teacher, Master George Bolger retired near the mountains, in Tucson, AZ. Master Jose retired near the Devil's Lake area in Wisconsin.

Edited by Starjumper
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A thread initiated as attack against me and to slander my teacher because I asked Starjumper to post a video of him demonstrating his alleged Internal Power, which I still am waiting for...

 

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This feels somewhat unnecessary :/ If we're going to troll Wells, can we at least attack his taste in TV shows (The Flash sucked, sorry to break it to you dude).

 

 

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2 hours ago, Starjumper said:

He claims to know the way to immortal,

 

Where does he claim so? Please point me to your source!

Otherwise please delete this false claim about him!

I asked Gary years ago if he was a taoist immortal and his answer was: "I'm only human."

An answer, of course, which every true master and taoist immortal would give...

Edited by Wells

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From my perspective his posture and form definitely needs work, but he does seem to have juice.

 

To call him a shyster is IMO inaccurate, when has he lied to others and practiced unscrupulous business methods? All i see is another person saying they don't like his technique and as a result talking shit about another instructor. Based on what i've heard from others he seems to be an up front dude. 

 

 

Edited by OldSaint
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4 hours ago, Wells said:

A thread initiated as attack against me and to slander my teacher because I asked Starjumper to post a video of him demonstrating his alleged Internal Power, which I still am waiting for...

 

 

I am saddened  that Wells sees this as a personal attack. If one sticks ones head above the parapet to praise a teacher of doubtful credence then one must be prepared for the consequences.

 

I am of the opinion that we must all make our own judgements when it comes to choosing a teacher.

Starjumper has posted one of Gary Clymans own video’s and it is simply a matter of watching what he does and listening to what he has to say before deciding as to his competence.

The problem is that those who have little experience in the Internal Arts are in a position of ignorance and cannot be expected to make sound choices regarding a practice or teacher to follow. This can make them prey to a bombastic type such as Gary Clyman.

I have practiced Taoist Internal Arts diligently for over twenty five years and honestly believe that I can recognise skill and expertise when I see it. Alas I see neither when watching Mr Clyman, whose manner also leaves much to be desired.

His movements are grotesque to say the least, forced, tense and completely lacking “sung” the energised relaxation so necessary in the performance of neigong. The only thing I can compare his forms to is Iron Shirt practice I have seen performed by proponents of Karate.

My own view is that Clyman was in fact taught by someone who had a sound understanding of these arts but that Clyman simply did not “Get It.” This in itself is not a problem unless the student is of an arrogant disposition, which is most certainly the case with Mr Clyman. We then have the case of someone who believes that they have mastered all aspects of the art when they are in fact completely lacking the most important – Internal – element.

My own view is that Clyman is so deluded that he really believes himself a Taoist Master. This, together with his huckster manner makes a very unpleasant combination.

Wells has a long history of poor judgement regarding the Internal Arts and one has only to cite his support of Western Mo Pai to see that his opinion is not to be trusted in these matters. This is sad to say the least as I believe that he is a true though woefully misguided seeker.

As I have said on previous occasions there is so much good information available now to the would be practitioner of the Taoist Arts. Let’s not waste out time with the hucksters, snake oil salesmen and those who support them.

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You guys have obviously not the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Master Gary J. Clyman is one of the most capable, successful and powerful chi healers on earth

as all these video testimonials of patients he healed prove without any doubt.

All the bad talk about him is just foolish nonsense and lies from haters who envy his great success.

Be my guest and take a good look at all these video testimonials,

then you can correct your completely wrong opinion of Gary and his awesome abilities.

"Ye Shall Know Them By Their Fruits."

"Behind Every Successful Person Lies A Pack Of Haters."

Both couldn't be more true than in Gary's case.

I hope that you are man enough to admit how wrong you all were about him.

Here is the video playlist:

 

 

 

Edited by Wells

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1 hour ago, Wells said:

You guys have obviously not the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Master Gary J. Clyman is one of the most capable, successful and powerful chi healers on earth

as all these video testimonials of patients he healed prove without any doubt.

All the bad talk about him is just foolish nonsense and lies from haters who envy his great success.

Be my guest and take a good look at all these video testimonials,

then you can correct your completely wrong opinion of Gary and his awesome abilities.

"Ye Shall Know Them By Their Fruits."

"Behind Every Successful Person Lies A Pack Of Haters."

Both couldn't be more true than in Gary's case.

I hope that you are man enough to admit how wrong you all were about him.

Here is the video playlist:

 

 

 

 

Oh dear me Wells.

 

If you feel no shame and embarrassment for yourself then please feel some for the poor devils you are asking to watch this nonsense. In the clip above we even have Clyman standing off camera and chiming in - just in case his stooge doesn't quite manage to convey how wonderful he "Gary" is.

 

There are those, like yourself, who are completely taken in by Clymans bombastic showmanship but i am hopeful that most will see it for what it is.

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7 minutes ago, Chang said:

 

Oh dear me Wells.

 

If you feel no shame and embarrassment for yourself then please feel some for the poor devils you are asking to watch this nonsense. In the clip above we even have Clyman standing off camera and chiming in - just in case his stooge doesn't quite manage to convey how wonderful he "Gary" is.

 

There are those, like yourself, who are completely taken in by Clymans bombastic showmanship but i am hopeful that most will see it for what it is.

 

Your complete denial of all these people who testify that they were healed by Clyman tells me a lot about your personality.

I pity you.

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If one person says a pie is sweet and another says it's sour they are both right.

 

I know that wells really believes clayman is sweet and I am forced to respect that,even if the majority gets a bad sour taste from his stuff.

 

To be honest the clayman video shows extremely poor skill  and is embarrassing to watch and that is my opinion.

 

Wells wishes to associate himself with clayman.  If someone wishes to promote something they then must be responsible for  the feedback negative or positive. A company can use many marketing tools and get the brand out there. I am not buying and have many suggestions the first is do not show the videos of clayman it will hurt business..

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Most "shysters" are unaware that they are shysters - they have an understanding and certainty that is typically assumptive - it assumes one thing upon another and in their minds they may be masters while an observer is looking at a guy playing a casio piano with a headset and sound effects that sees himself or herself as a symphony. 

It can be hard to watch and it can be a spectacle from a real showman - typically it doesn't take too long to move past the show - though practice can sometimes really take on some bad habits and often a beginner can stop altogether without ever having experienced the real thing.

It can be difficult ferreting the crude from the fine - the allue of a flowing teaching apple polisher or the distaste of a drunken master.

 

At the same time - a good student seems to fit in accordance with grace and depth - most students seek the superficial and a good superficial teaching is what they get - and for those skimming the surface who is to say those teachers are shysters?

 

Some teachers don't take students for years - some have many and some have few and some charge a considerable amount and others charge little: but none of these qualities or requirements say much about the teacher.

 

For all the anxiousness that takes place real results typically take years to really own - at that point the real stuff does not require too much of teachers and students will come to find ones that are appropriate.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I think it will be good to start this thread with a short video of Clyman doing some tai chi, his horrendous version of it.  He claims to know the way to immortal, but he was excommunicated by his own teacher.  In this video it appears that he is going to pop a blood vessel any minute.

 

 

 

Okay, as a disinterested party who has no idea who Gary Clyman is:

 

This looks pretty bad to me. It looks as bad as Bruce Frantzis's demonstration of Wu short form. However, at least BKF has the excuse of having broken his back quite a few times.

 

I don't know who Dwai is either apart from a couple of interactions and his morning routine video, but if they both do Temple Style then I'd have to rate Dwai over Clyman as the superior practitioner from what I've seen so far.

 

As to whether Clyman is a shyster, I have no idea. That kind of implies he's deliberately misleading people and I don't know enough about him. Maybe he's just deluded? Or maybe there are other videos of Gary demonstrating better skill?

 

 

48 minutes ago, Chang said:

 

Oh dear me Wells.

 

If you feel no shame and embarrassment for yourself then please feel some for the poor devils you are asking to watch this nonsense. In the clip above we even have Clyman standing off camera and chiming in - just in case his stooge doesn't quite manage to convey how wonderful he "Gary" is.

 

Yeah, I'd have to agree with this with respect to that testimonial video. It just looks really bizarre/fake to me. Again, I don't know whether this is the case or not, but the way that clip was presented wasn't great, IMO.

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It's difficult for me to criticize another teacher without incurring either animosity from their students or understandable counterattack criticism against me and my teachers. However, I do have to say that I have difficulty seeing internal skill here as being as good as it is purported to be, and the best way I could rationalize why he doesn't appear to have it is that he's deliberately hiding it from the public. But if he is someone seeking more students and income, I can't understand why he'd downplay his own skill in demonstration because that would cause him to lose business. So unfortunately, either I lack the ability to see the skill he has that helped his patients, or it probably isn't that high, and perhaps it really doesn't take much to help those he has supposedly healed.

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OK, I changed the name from shyster to unethical - please excuse my propensity for name calling.  It is said that a teacher is known by his students or psycophants and so it was with Wells, who was starting to cause trouble.

Edited by Starjumper
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I have never known Wells to cause trouble.  Apparently there was a serious disagreement and the expression of those involved was not presented as well as some wanted them to be.

 

And even if Wells did not present himself well, I forgive him.

 

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In addition to the poor performance of tai chi in the opening post it is easy to see that he is holding a lot of tension in his body, something that will set off alarm bells in all experienced practitioners of the internal arts.  His red face and his big belly which appears to be carrying twins indicates he has arterial problems and high blood pressure.  There is a saying in Taoism, first heal yourself (emotionally and physically) before you try to heal others. You can see that a lot of chi kung healers are in excellent physical and emotional condition.

 

My chi kung teacher was a powerful healer with abilities that bordered on miraculous, and he did not charge for healing.  He just kept hidden.

 

I'm going to look at more of his videos, but the initial feeling I get is that he is claiming to teach nei kung and charges very high sums of money for it.  What I have seen does not look like nei kung at all.  

 

What I really think is best for all is that he learn how to relax and calm down, to work on healing himself.

 

There is a saying, you can tell a lot about a chi kung master by looking at his belly, and then his face.

Edited by Starjumper

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It's like ILoveCoffee was a zombie, except instead of a lust for brains, he infected this community with a lust for shitposting.

 

Wells has a teacher. He's happy with that teacher. That teacher, whatever critiques you can make based on evaluating a video of his form work or his personality or speculations about his health, at the least has a lot of people out there who seem legitimately impressed with his performance as a healer or a martial artist. That teacher, despite whatever flaws he may or may not have, is obviously dedicated to and very passionate about his art. I don't think there's a whole lot more to be said on the subject that isn't just intentional baiting, and this place is usually better than that.

 

This isn't a MorePie situation folks. Time to step down from red alert. Do some quiet sitting, drink some green tea, get laid, pop a xanax, whatever helps you settle the hell down.

 

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I once was taught that teacher you have is often the teacher you need and deserve at that point in your path and development. 

 

So I think Aeran said it perfectly and has teachers I greatly respect for being able to have that insight and eloquence. ;)

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Unfortunately this is very much a MorePie situation as Wells is a long time supporter of Western Mo Pai.

 

It is as though he is drawn to nonsense which he then attempts to aggrandise. It may well be that he is simply an impressionable youth who is easily taken in but I do feel a duty to point out the error of his ways. i would hate to think that forum members would be tempted to dish out dosh to Clyman in return for the nonsense he teaches.

Edited by Chang
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19 minutes ago, phil48 said:

 

Ya, we would all like to have access to that rare subject who responds so well to chi manipulation, so we can make videos to show off our prowess, in order to make money.  I actually had one such person visit, and I made a video of it too, but later I became concerned about the ethical repercussions of doing that kind of thing and so deleted it.

 

In other news:  I will admit that I started this thread because Wells was trolling and being quite insulting elsewhere, but maybe he was just constipated.  The goal was, in fact, revenge, too give him some of his own medicine, and to distract him from his trolling.  Now for me, I see revenge as something that can be totally useful if done in an ethical manner.  I can see that Clyman is dedicated to his art, and that is good.  

 

I'm considering having this thread moved to my PPF where it will be relegated to the shit can of history.  What do you all think?

Edited by Starjumper
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1 minute ago, Starjumper said:

 

Ya, we would all like to have access to that rare subject who responds so well to chi manipulation, so we can make videos to show off our prowess, in order to make money.  I actually had one such person visit, and I made a video of it too, but later I became concerned about the ethical repercussions of doing that kind of thing and so deleted it.

 

In other news:  I will admit that I started this thread because Wells was trolling and being quite insulting elsewhere, but maybe he was just constipated.  The goal was, in fact, revenge, too give him some of his own medicine, and to distract him from his trolling.  Now for me, I see revenge as something can be something totally useful if done in an ethical manner.  I can see that Clyman is dedicated to his art, and that is good.  

 

I'm considering having this thread moved to my PPF where it will be relegated to the shit can of history.  What do you all think?

 

Possibly a good idea as there may be a danger that Wells begins to appear as a victim or the butt of a very poor joke.

 

In all honesty he must be suffering enough watching Clyman DVD's let alone attempting to emulate him.

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6 minutes ago, Chang said:

Possibly a good idea as there may be a danger that Wells begins to appear as a victim or the butt of a very poor joke.

 

In all honesty he must be suffering enough watching Clyman DVD's let alone attempting to emulate him.

 

Good points.  Let him hurt himself as he will and let it go.  Those who can see will see his teacher from his actions, and those whose karma makes them follow (fill in your own insulting names here), as Earl Gray said, are getting what they need.

Edited by Starjumper

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Do you really judge a person because of some videos? Or because he has a red face or big belly?

I find it wrong, if not dangerous, to judge a person without really knowing them. 

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1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

In addition to the poor performance of tai chi in the opening post it is easy to see that he is holding a lot of tension in his body, something that will set off alarm bells in all experienced practitioners of the internal arts.  His red face and his big belly which appears to be carrying twins indicates he has arterial problems and high blood pressure.  

 

In case you are unaware of it, his skin tone pretty much resembles your own.

 

Quote

My chi kung teacher was a powerful healer with abilities that bordered on miraculous, and he did not charge for healing.  He just kept hidden.

 

I posted a lot of video testimonials of the patients healed by Master Clyman, which prove that his chi abilities are outstanding.

I don't see any video testimonials posted by you, if your teacher taught you something of worth besides useless forms, you should have such miraculous chi powers yourself and therefore there should be even more testimonials of people healed by you than there are for Clyman.

 

Ah, I forgot the video of you punching a wall which you posted at neigongforum, which if I remember right was supposed to demonstrate FaJin on a John Chang like level in your opinion....

 

Quote

I'm going to look at more of his videos, but the initial feeling I get is that he is claiming to teach nei kung and charges very high sums of money for it.  What I have seen does not look like nei kung at all.  

 

I am not sure why you believe to be able to assess how Nei Kung looks like.

 

Quote

There is a saying, you can tell a lot about a chi kung master by looking at his belly, and then his face.

 

Yes, some people have such red faces that the dizziness caused by their high blood pressure causes them even to see violet lights...

 

Edited by Wells

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