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Brian

MURDERS IN US VERY CONCENTRATED

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I arrive at a different conclusion:

 

Fewer people living in a confined area results in fewer murders.

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It's odd how Republicans appear to support gun confiscation while at the same time supporting gun proliferation.

 

George Bush Jr. Oversaw gun confiscation at the local, State and Federal level during the Katrina Disaster and Republicans said nothing. But gun sales go nuts from spreading the lies that Democrats will confiscate their guns whenever we have a Democrat in office.

 

Certainly the greatest proliferation in easing of gun laws and increase in open carry laws took place during the Obama Admin.

 

If we were to take a look at internal terrorist attacks committed by US citizens they are overwhelmingly Christian Right - but this stat appears wholly politically incorrect to the otherwise hell bent gun enthusiasts.

 

There could be shown a direct correlation to areas with the most birds and those areas with the least crime. (Hint - dense populations have more domestic cats - which btw - are tough on local bird populations)

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Here's an easy solution: Build containment walls - not around the US, but inside the country!

 

 

I watched that movie a while back.  It's SciFi but not too far from a possible reality.

Edited by Marblehead

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Well data is data.... and this seems striking.

But I noticed near the header this site is NRA in source? 

 

 

To subscribe to our research updates click here

At the @CrimeResearch1 at the NRA convention in Atlanta, booth 1505.

 

I grew up with hunting.  I have an extensive firearm and blade collection and have studied and used them for years.

 

My family is populated with police officers... homicide, CIA, FBI, all retired now, or passed on now, (some on active duty), so I am also a bit of an insider and am aware of how the reporting of stats can be buffered and outright played at times.  In this age of spin it's tough to be openly believing of anything put forth by the NRA, or any large agency.  But that may just be me.

 

When I see NRA in the source of this reporting though, my spin meter goes up.

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Well data is data.... and this seems striking.

But I noticed near the header this site is NRA in source?

 

 

I grew up with hunting. I have an extensive firearm and blade collection and have studied and used them for years.

 

My family is populated with police officers... homicide, CIA, FBI, all retired now, or passed on now, (some on active duty), so I am also a bit of an insider and am aware of how the reporting of stats can be buffered and outright played at times. In this age of spin it's tough to be openly believing of anything put forth by the NRA, or any large agency. But that may just be me.

 

When I see NRA in the source of this reporting though, my spin meter goes up.

http://crimeresearch.org/about-us/

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Violent street gang MS-13 puts Long Island towns in its grip

5902cc6d85759.image.jpg

BRENTWOOD, N.Y. (AP) ‚ÄĒ Late at night, when helicopters thrum overhead and spotlights beam down onto lawns, many people here know exactly what's going on.

"You just think, 'Oh, God, whose child is it now?'" said Stephanie Spezia, a longtime resident of this suburb in the heart of Long Island that is caught in the grip of a violent street gang with Central American ties, MS-13.

MS-13 has been blamed for a trail of 11 corpses of mostly young people discovered in woods and vacant lots in Brentwood and neighboring Central Islip since the start of the school year.

The bloodshed in the two blue-collar towns has gotten the attention of President Donald Trump, who says the killings are the result of lax immigration policies that let too many criminal "scum" slip through.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions was set to give a speech Friday not far from a park where the bodies of four young men were found this month bearing MS-13's hallmarks: repeated slashes from a blade that left the victims nearly unrecognizable.

Some parents say they are afraid to let their children go to school. Teens say any perceived slight to a gang member, especially a refusal to join, can mean death.

After one high school warned parents not to let their kids wear anything "gang-affiliated," gang members started deciding on a daily basis what colors were off-limits, leaving students to guess what not to wear.

"Kids are losing their childhoods," said Jennifer Suarez, whose 15-year-old niece was beaten and hacked to death in the street last year. "You can see the stress on their faces as they get ready. It's like, you know, they're suiting up for battle."

So how does a street gang with ties to Central America gain such an aggressive foothold in the suburbs of Long Island?

MS-13, or the Mara Salvatrucha, is believed by federal prosecutors to have thousands of members across the U.S., primarily immigrants from Central America. It has a stronghold in Los Angeles, where it emerged in the 1980s as a neighborhood street gang.

But its true rise began after members were deported back to El Salvador in the 1990s. There, the gang thrived and spread to Honduras. MS-13 and rival groups there now control entire towns, rape girls and young women, massacre students, bus drivers and merchants who refuse to pay extortion, and kill competitors or youths who simply refuse to join.

That violence has prompted a mass migration of people trying to escape, especially children, who have streamed north because of a U.S. policy allowing people under 18 who arrive without parents to stay in the country temporarily with relatives or friends.

Since the fall of 2013, the U.S. has placed 165,000 unaccompanied minors. Long Island has been a frequent landing spot. Suffolk County, which includes Brentwood and Central Islip, has gotten 4,500. Neighboring Nassau County has received 3,800.

In a recent roundup of 13 suspected MS-13 gang members accused of murder and other charges, seven had entered as unaccompanied minors.

"There's no question that MS-13 is recruiting these unaccompanied children," said Suffolk County Police Commissioner Timothy Sini. The youngsters "don't have an established social network, at least many of them don't, and MS-13 is providing that network."

"They're also using coercion," Sini said. "They say, 'If you don't join the gang, we will kill you.'"

All told, nearly 200 suspected MS-13 members have been rounded up since September. Among the tactics Sini has employed have been stepped-up patrols, renewed cooperation with an FBI task force and helicopter sweeps of wooded areas where gang members have been known to gather.

Trump has promised to eradicate the gang in the U.S. through strict enforcement of immigration law.

"We are putting MS-13 in jail and getting them the hell out of our country," he told The Associated Press this week. "They are a bad group, and somebody said they are as bad as al-Qaida, which is a hell of a reference. ... We are out in Long Island cleaning out the MS-13 scum."

The tough talk has made some residents fearful of law enforcement as well of the gang. They say it's not about immigration politics but about making a community safer.

Residents of Brentwood and Central Islip, with a combined population of about 100,000, say the area of modest ranch homes, warehouses and strip malls has always been a diverse, welcoming place for immigrants trying to make better lives for their children.

Some longtime residents say law enforcement bears some of the responsibility for the gang's rise because it ignored the burgeoning problem for years.

Parents say 4,200-student Brentwood High School lacks the means to help young people who are often left alone after school because their parents work long hours. There are few social workers and guidance counselors, they say, and not enough security guards or cameras.

"They can't walk the halls without fear," said Evelyn Rodriguez, the mother of 16-year-old Kayla Cuevas, who was found beaten to death last fall. Rodriguez said her daughter had been bullied for two years.

In the months leading up to her death, Kayla was involved in a series of disputes with members and associates of the MS-13, prosecutors said. Rodriguez said her daughter stood her ground and ended up dead.

Kayla and her lifelong friend Nisa Mickens, 15, were walking on a street near their homes when men with baseball bats and a machete jumped out and attacked them.

Nisa was found dead on a residential tree-lined street a day before her 16th birthday. After a day of searching, Kayla was discovered in a wooded backyard nearby. She lived a block away.

"People, they missed the opportunity to know a really great person," said Nisa's father, Rob Mickens, who is running for the school board to help push for change. "They would have loved to know her."

Bertha Ullaguari said she noticed her 18-year-old son, Jorge Tigre, going from a good student on track to graduate from Bellport High to someone who was too afraid to go to school.

Then she got two truancy letters. When she pressed her son, he refused to tell her what was going on.

"Some bad things happened there," Ullaguari said, her voice trembling. She had heard he had his tires slashed. There were rumors of gangs.

And then, about two weeks ago while she was driving with her daughter, they got a mysterious call. A girl on the line said Jorge was dead along with three others in a park 20 miles from his home.

"We nearly killed ourselves from the shock," said Ullaguari, who is an Ecuadorean immigrant.

Jorge's body and the three others were found cut, their torsos exposed and hands bound, just steps from a playground.

"It could happen to anybody's child, anywhere," Evelyn Rodriguez said. "We all need to be aware of this, and we need stand together. Because I don't want it to be your child."

Murder-Map-of-US-Counties-Logo.jpg

May 15, 2005

The gruesome murders were each more than 1,000 miles apart, an arc of bloodshed that spanned much of the North American continent.

On a rutty street near a crowded slum in Honduras, gunmen sprayed automatic weapons fire at a bus filled with Christmastime shoppers. Twenty-eight people, including six children, were killed.

In the woods near Dallas, an innocent 21-year-old man was shot in the head, his remains eaten by animals. His pants were pulled down, and police suspect that he may have been sodomized.

And near the banks of a quiet river in Virginia, a 17-year-old informant was hacked to death. She was four months pregnant and stabbed 16 times in the chest and neck.

The killings were similar not only in their brutality but also in their lineage: Authorities say all three incidents are tied to a single Los Angeles branch of Mara Salvatrucha, a street gang formed 20 years ago in the immigrant neighborhoods west of the downtown skyline.

Today, the gang's extreme violence, vast reach and increasing sophistication have made it a top priority at the highest levels of law enforcement and political leadership from Washington to San Salvador.

In recent months, the departments of Justice and Homeland Security have launched a series of initiatives to confront the threat posed by the gang, also known as MS-13, which has between 30,000 and 50,000 members in half a dozen countries, including up to 10,000 members in the U.S., according to federal law enforcement estimates.

 

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Being in Chicago, one of the 'murder' hot spots gives me some experience.   Here, the murder problem is a gang problem.  About half is drug related, another half is.. stupid turf/honor crap though the two are pretty mixed. 

 

What's confounded me about the situation is how often good ideas exacerbate the problem.   Some of the latest increase is due to locking up some old timers, older gang leaders.  This created a leadership vacuum, along with new territory fights.

 

I understand the angst at the heart of Black Lives Matter, but its created a backlash where police feel targeted.  This has made police less likely to stop and question people who are suspicious and led to more crime. 

 

When it comes to drugs, police presence moves or delays deals, generally doesn't end them.  I assume walls wouldn't be to different.  Matter of fact its pretty much the start of every Dystopian movie. 

 

There's the pat answers of better education, after school programs, jobs..   but they only go so far.  I think we have to look at legalizing drugs.. carefully.  Certainly there is already a trend in marijuana.   Along with legalization, I'm not averse to other controls.  To get OTC allergy medicine Zyrtec D I had to show a drivers license.  I wouldn't be averse to such a control on marijuana.  We have the computer power.  To much and they're stopped.  Their friend buys too much, and they're stopped.  

 

I was reading 33,000 people died in the US of Opioid overdose.  That is huge, 15, 16 world trade towers, a year?   Controlled facilities where you can 'use' safely might be an answer.  Not a great one, but worthwhile if it saves 10,000 lives a year. 

 

To get the murder rate down,

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Being in Chicago, one of the 'murder' hot spots gives me some experience. Here, the murder problem is a gang problem. About half is drug related, another half is.. stupid turf/honor crap though the two are pretty mixed.

 

What's confounded me about the situation is how often good ideas exacerbate the problem. Some of the latest increase is due to locking up some old timers, older gang leaders. This created a leadership vacuum, along with new territory fights.

 

I understand the angst at the heart of Black Lives Matter, but its created a backlash where police feel targeted. This has made police less likely to stop and question people who are suspicious and led to more crime.

 

When it comes to drugs, police presence moves or delays deals, generally doesn't end them. I assume walls wouldn't be to different. Matter of fact its pretty much the start of every Dystopian movie.

 

There's the pat answers of better education, after school programs, jobs.. but they only go so far. I think we have to look at legalizing drugs.. carefully. Certainly there is already a trend in marijuana. Along with legalization, I'm not averse to other controls. To get OTC allergy medicine Zyrtec D I had to show a drivers license. I wouldn't be averse to such a control on marijuana. We have the computer power. To much and they're stopped. Their friend buys too much, and they're stopped.

 

I was reading 33,000 people died in the US of Opioid overdose. That is huge, 15, 16 world trade towers, a year? Controlled facilities where you can 'use' safely might be an answer. Not a great one, but worthwhile if it saves 10,000 lives a year.

 

To get the murder rate down,

You provided a good example for

 

2872ant.jpg

 

And for the record, I wasn't quite serious when I suggested walling off parts of America. :D

Edited by Michael Sternbach
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The greater the concentration of people the greater the number of laws.

The greater the concentration of people the greater the number of crimes and thieves.

 

 

Sometimes it is not wisdom he is spouting - sometimes he is just pointing out fact.

 

Of course you could go the other way - very few laws but total iron hand:

Get caught stealing lose a hand.

Get caught with my daughter lose your balls.

Women wear burkas so as not to tempt us guys.

Freedom of speach will be very limited.

Guns and handgrenades will flow like water.

Public stoning for adultry.

 

And yet - go to Abu Dhabi - total den of thieves from the world over.

Edited by Spotless

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To me, Lao-tzu's statement boils down to:

 

The more you focus on something - be it positive or negative -, the more you will call it forth.

Edited by Michael Sternbach

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Murder-Map-of-US-Counties-Logo.jpg

So...

Mathematically...

Who wants to pick up census data and tell me when the areas will "organically" kill themselves at this rate of "murders"? Are we looking at linear growth or exponential and then sharp drop off ( i.e. no one left to murder or they are not in a state to commit murder?

 

Why do I need it? Just looking for a nice neighborhood to move in...

 

meow

Edited by qicat
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Perhaps I'm conflating something or making an assumption, please help me clarify this, because I don't want to assume, I'm just very wary these days... but that quote I added... this one here which is found just below the header on that site...

 

 

To subscribe to our research updates click here

At the @CrimeResearch1 at the NRA convention in Atlanta, booth 1505

 

seems to indicate that the crime research center site you are linking to is associated with the NRA itself? 

am I just high?

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Murder-Map-of-US-Counties-Logo.jpg

So...

Mathematically...

Who wants to pick up census data and tell me when the areas will "organically" kill themselves at this rate of "murders"? Are we looking at linear growth or exponential and then sharp drop off ( i.e. no one left to murder or they are not in a state to commit murder?

 

Why do I need it? Just looking for a nice neighborhood to move in...

 

meow

I've heard that there isn't much crime happening in Alaska. (Just beware of feeding the bears.)

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I've heard that there isn't much crime happening in Alaska. (Just beware of feeding the bears.)

 

I bow to the Great Bear Ursula Major... Bears are friends...

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Perhaps I'm conflating something or making an assumption, please help me clarify this, because I don't want to assume, I'm just very wary these days... but that quote I added... this one here which is found just below the header on that site...

 

 

seems to indicate that the crime research center site you are linking to is associated with the NRA itself?

am I just high?

It means they are going to have a booth/table at the NRA annual conference, like many other organizations and companies.
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It means they are going to have a booth/table at the NRA annual conference, like many other organizations and companies.

FWIW, Trump is going to be the first President since Reagan to address the NRA convention.

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thanks mate... appreciate your clarifying... I was still rather theta'd out even now, from intense dream winteractions and early morning breath work.

 

The data here reinforces my experience while living in NYC. 

 

It was very surprising to this naive white boy from Minnesota that there were (and I assume still are) vast areas where police will simply not go in the boroughs, which are left to govern and police themselves.  It was described that the reason for this is that it is not possible to safely deal with issues on the street, when there are 40 stories of windows above you on either side, from which death and problems can rain down upon you while you are otherwise engaged.

 

The reality for me was driven home when my wife and I were chased on sight for several blocks by a mob of half a dozen thugs, when we strayed into one of these areas ignorantly...

 

We quickly learned to consult locals when venturing into new areas of the city before heading there as it could just mean death. 

 

This data also supports my observations about the issue in that... the vast majority of the issues and problems are created by a very small minority of the people and in this case, that seems to be consentrated into very small areas.

 

Very enlightening info... thanks for sharing.

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How many people can one know?

One hundred, one thousand, eleven hundred?

Where is the tipping point between we and them?

 

The problems begin when we find distinctions, which leads to separation or divisions.

Getting into my car / truck I become a different person, almost always not as nice a person.

Getting in a large crowd affects my behavior again usually not in a positive way.

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