different teachingsTaiji

[Buddy]

"There is alot of 'me too' in the internal arts, so you start to hear about yang style having 'pulling silk' etc..it just alot of nonsense to confuse people, imo, because these things are pretty simple once someone shows you."

 

Well, it does need to be shown, but SP isn't nonsense. It's the conscious control of the lengthening in and out of the soft tissue. It's part of my neigong.

[thaddeus]

Well, it does need to be shown, but SP isn't nonsense. It's the conscious control of the lengthening in and out of the soft tissue. It's part of my neigong.

is that part of the store and release or something different..didn't mean nonsense..i'll edit..

[Buddy]

Yeah, sort of. It's actual movement of the soft tissue. Think of bending a bow string to shoot an arrow.

Here's how my friend Paul Cavel describes the method I learned it from:

 

The Marriage of Heaven and Earth

 

In this movement you learn how to stretch all the muscles, tendons, ligaments and fascia of the body.

 

The work is then taken deeper into the fluids of the body - the blood, lymph, synovial and cerebrospinal fluids. When this material is fully integrated the body moves as one interconnected piece.

 

The energetic work combines the descending and ascending energy currents to move chi through the micro and macro cosmic orbits. The energies of heaven and earth are joined within the tan-dien (the centre point of the body).

Edited December 29, 2007 by Buddy

[steve]

Edited December 29, 2007 by xuesheng

[Buddy]

In bagua and xingyi we call it luo xuan jin.

[steve]

In bagua and xingyi we call it luo xuan jin.

Are these the characters you're referring to 螺 旋 勁 ?

Thanks,

Steve

Edited December 29, 2007 by xuesheng

[Buddy]

I don't know Chinese. It means...coiling, twisting power. Something like that.

[steve]

I don't know Chinese. It means...coiling, twisting power. Something like that.

That's probably it - 螺 (luo) means spiral like in a fingerprint or snail shell. 旋 (xuan) is to circle or spin. Together they generally mean spiral or helix, also screw. 勁 (jin) of course is energy, strength, or force. Literally, I'd translate it as spiraling energy. I guess it could also be translated as screwing energy... gotta love those xingyi/bagua guys...

[onebir]

That's probably it - 螺 (luo) means spiral like in a fingerprint or snail shell. 旋 (xuan) is to circle or spin. Together they generally mean spiral or helix, also screw. 勁 (jin) of course is energy, strength, or force. Literally, I'd translate it as spiraling energy. I guess it could also be translated as screwing energy... gotta love those xingyi/bagua guys...

 

I've heard a chinese yiquan teacher use the word in that sense so I think you're right. (The spiral he was talking about was 3d though - more like a snail shell than a fingerprint.)

[steve]

I've heard a chinese yiquan teacher use the word in that sense so I think you're right. (The spiral he was talking about was 3d though - more like a snail shell than a fingerprint.)

It sounds like maybe Thaddeus was referring to yiquan in an earlier post (?)

It's also used in taijiquan literature but less frequently.

 

PS Another very important exercise for experiencing and cultivating this coiling/spiraling strength is the combination of sitting and standing meditation. Daoist methods of sitting develop the yi/qi interaction and the standing really allows one to feel the energy throughout the torso and limbs and further refine it's control. I'm not sure it's possible to really understand and cultivate this energy to it's maximum potential without the meditation part, even if you practice silk reeling exercises and pushing hands. My teacher tells us there are certain skills or levels one doesn't achieve without including meditation practice in taijiquan training. From my experience personally and observing my students, this is one.

 

I would go as far as saying that this is why we see the importance of standing meditation (and circle walking) in xingyiquan, baguazhang, taijiquan, and yiquan. This central role of standing meditation to develop an awareness of, connection with, and control of body energy (of which chan su jing is one) seems to be what separates internal from external practice more than anything else, in my experience with both.

[Buddy]

"This central role of standing meditation to develop an awareness of, connection with, and control of body energy (of which chan su jing is one) seems to be what separates internal from external practice more than anything else, in my experience with both."

 

 

Mmmm. maybe. I tend to let the "energy" take care of itself. For me the most basic reason for practicing standing is to release all muscular contraction not necessary for remaining upright (fang-let go).

Edited December 31, 2007 by Buddy

[steve]

Mmmm. maybe. I tend to let the "energy" take care of itself. For me the most basic reason for practicing standing is to release all muscular contraction not necessary for remaining upright (fang-let go).

There are specific neigong methods that involve standing combined with a variety of yi/qi guiding and manipulating exercises. These involve more than cultivating fang. I agree that basic standing is about developing fang and song.

[WhiteTiger]

Wow good stuff to hear... like this so far. Lots of things I haven't learned about. Makes me want to find a teacher to teach this stuff immidately! Actually having problems fighting a good teacher in any internal martial arts

[Buddy]

My pal, Bernie Langan is in Oakland.

[mYTHmAKER]

Mmmm. maybe. I tend to let the "energy" take care of itself. For me the most basic reason for practicing standing is to release all muscular contraction not necessary for remaining upright (fang-let go).

 

That's what I was taught.

Buddy how often do you stand and for how long

[Buddy]

How often do you stand and why?

[mYTHmAKER]

How often do you stand and why?

 

Nothing like answering a question with a question but anyway.

I stand every day for one hour.

On bad days I sometimes also ask myself why

I stand mostly wu wei knees bent a little.

Sometimes I hug a tree or two.

I stand for health - to let go of tension and to root.

 

Now how long do you stand and how often.

You've already said why.

[Buddy]

Not as much as I used to. Used to do mostly santi and 9-breath piquan for a very long time. In the beginning I'd do Kumar's standing/dissolving for an hour or two.

[Dorje Boleskine]

Yeah, sort of. It's actual movement of the soft tissue. Think of bending a bow string to shoot an arrow.

Here's how my friend Paul Cavel describes the method I learned it from:

 

The Marriage of Heaven and Earth

 

In this movement you learn how to stretch all the muscles, tendons, ligaments and fascia of the body.

 

The work is then taken deeper into the fluids of the body - the blood, lymph, synovial and cerebrospinal fluids. When this material is fully integrated the body moves as one interconnected piece.

 

The energetic work combines the descending and ascending energy currents to move chi through the micro and macro cosmic orbits. The energies of heaven and earth are joined within the tan-dien (the centre point of the body).

 

I found a video clip on Youtube with Paul Cavel talking about bagua and moving the fluids of the body.