Retention Thread

[Trunk]

Untransformed residual sexual tension

in all the various tissues

inhibits flow of qi, blood.

If you're unable to transform all

that you've saved:

you've got trouble.

 

People vary:

age, constitution, genetics,

astrologically, temperment,

life experience, dents / benefits,

training, development,

specific harmonies, dis-harmonies.

Respect your own condition,

practice discernment.

[Yue]

Untransformed residual sexual tension

in all the various tissues

inhibits flow of qi, blood.

If you're unable to transform all

that you've saved:

you've got trouble.

 

People vary:

age, constitution, genetics,

astrologically, temperment,

life experience, dents / benefits,

training, development,

specific harmonies, dis-harmonies.

Respect your own condition,

practice discernment.

 

By "untransformed", do you mean unaroused?

Edited December 27, 2007 by Yue

[Trunk]

By "untransformed", do you mean unaroused?

I mean, basically, "sexual tension". Whether you are going the "desireless celibate" route or the "arouse and then save" route, you are going to have some sexual tension that you'll need to refine/transform. One of the results of a good practice session is that your jing becomes soft, sweet, supple, cool, "kind" (rather than hot, stubbornly aggressive, tense).

 

~ later edit ~

I really encourage people to review the dangers section (link) at alchemicaltoaism.com. Knowing the dangers will help you to avoid them.

 

Also, if you're serious about retention but find it to be a problematic area for you (i.e. you're left with stubborn tension) I suggest that you consider getting a vibration platform (link) and use it a couple of times a week (in addition to whatever your daily practice is). I know it sounds expensive, but it'll save you from the worst of the dangers ... the trip to hell and back that some of us here in the community have unfortunately gone through.

[Yue]

I mean, basically, "sexual tension". Whether you are going the "desireless celibate" route or the "arouse and then save" route, you are going to have some sexual tension that you'll need to refine/transform. One of the results of a good practice session is that your jing becomes soft, sweet, supple, cool, "kind" (rather than hot, stubbornly aggressive, tense).

 

Ah. And how do you transform it?

[Mal]

Ah. And how do you transform it?

 

I recommend some sort of microcosmic orbit variation, whichever one that you prefer. Some meditation systems seem to transform the energy too, but I have not been practicing long enough to tell for sure.

 

Edit. I always liked this one too link Just noticed the new webmasters note

 

Also, if you're serious about retention but find it to be a problematic area for you (i.e. you're left with stubborn tension) I suggest that you consider getting a vibration platform (link)

 

Don't have one of those but I used my progasam yesterday and I must say that everything in nice and relaxed again. So it's day 6 and back to easy is right

 

P.S. I should point out that I think a lot of my "tension" yesterday was due to arguments / miscommunication with my partner over the Xmas holidays. Things had been feeling really natural and good and I was surprised how easily this was going. Then tension and emotions built up really quickly. So as well as no "physical" love I was missing my emotional love too. We had a chance to chat and reconnect last night, I'm sure that helped me feel good.

Edited December 28, 2007 by Mal

[mantis]

pranayama will transmute the sexual energies slowly. here is a method i use. Ham Sa Pranayama. trunk, i have not known how to reply to you and thus you might have noticed my ignoring of your replies; i now do, thank you. i realize now in vivid colors you are doing the same as i - trying to inform and help. if you can not afford a vibration platform you can buy a vibration massager for roughly $20 at wal-mart. i have one that i got for christmas but it wasn't asked for this purpose, rather some persistent lower back pain that has troubled me (which you can attribute to retention, it may or may not be the cause).

 

this thread is turning out just as i wished it had, a display of information for those who wish to learn can, acknowledging everything in between.

[WhiteTiger]

One can relieve that by inhaling from them and lead to the crown , and on the exhale bring that energy into the Dantian.

 

Agreed

[onebir]

some persistent lower back pain that has troubled me (which you can attribute to retention, it may or may not be the cause).

 

Mantis, you also mentioned 'getting sick out of the blue' in a previous thread. Together with back pain - particularly if this doesn't respond to exercise, stretching etc - these are the two symptoms of prostatitis that I've had. It's taken me quite a while to put them together. You may be able to save yourself some future problems if you get the possibility of prostatitis checked out.

[mantis]

i thank you for your concern but i don't really think that's the case.. i have had back pain for a while, it's usually a come and go type of thing. when i got sick was after a cold front, and i assume was from the drop in the weather from 80s to 50s. i checked out some of the symptoms for prostatitis and i don't appear to have a single one... some included pain while sitting, pain after ejaculation, low libido, sexual dysfunction, there's a ton of them that i don't qualify for.

 

thanks though, it shows a true family like value to this forum; i am then again 17 and don't think prostate problems happen just yet.

 

for all of those following up on this thread, today is my one month of retention, woo.

Edited December 30, 2007 by mantis

[Mal]

for all of those following up on this thread, today is my one month of retention, woo.

 

Sweet, Congratulations.

Just to represent the other end of the spectrum. I'm back to Zero. But it's all good.

[Gerard]

Seminal retention.

 

First:

 

1. If you live in isolation. Very easy because qi is moving freely around the body and constantly absorbing jing's energy;hence the seminal fluid is being utilised non-stop.

 

2. If you don't. You'll have to discharge it at some stage because sooner or later it will become stagnant. Kind of like a full battery, eventually you'll need to empty it (use it) in order to become full again. So, in this case dual cultivation is the best method to balance the discharge process as you'll absorb the energy of your female partner. Masturbation is a bad method because you will gain zero.

 

3. There are ways to delay the seminal discharge stage:

 

1. Diet. Avoid or limit Yang foods especially red meats, dairy and dairy products and processed food.

 

2. Meditation and Qigong.

 

3. Quality of sleep.

 

4. Sheng Xiao/Astrology. Your astrological and inner yin & yang configuration will determine your sexuality. Example: A fire snake born in the Aries month with rising Leo will need a lot more sex than a water pig born as Pisces rising Cancer.

[mantis]

my lower back pain is gone and no, i did not spill. i have been doing the hatha yoga asana's every night before sleep, i think they are of immense value.. i also take cold showers, a good shock to the system and good for blood circulation. not the feel-yourself-in cold showers, no no my friend, haha; you have to dive in!

 

now i at times have upper back pain which i would say is better than lower, who knows, one day i might have head pain, lol!

[Vantage]

Ok here's my update on retention: (as in not ejaculating for a longer period)

 

I usually get, after one week, increased sexual dreams and wet dreams. I have never made it past 21 days because of that.

 

One of the recomendations here was to sleep om my side, instead of my stomach. I have managed to have some nights on my side, it is better. But still I get the sexual dreams.

 

So I became quite sceptical if it is really good for me, and I asked an experienced yoga teacher what he makes of the whole sex transmutation/retention thing.

 

He says it works for him. He teaches classes 6 times a day and then walks for half an hour to go to the gym. And then he says "guess how old I am." I said:41. He says: 61. I was shocked. The guy hardly has any wrinkles, super clear eyes and skin and does not look old at all. Simply amazing.

 

So I asked him, why isn't it working for me?

 

Before I give you his answer, I would like to hear your opinions on what food could be causing my sexual dreams. What was effective for you?

 

Well I can already tell you 2 foods he mentioned are garlic and onions, but I am not eating either of them.

Edited January 28, 2008 by Vantage

[freesun]

One can relieve that by inhaling from them and lead to the crown , and on the exhale bring that energy into the Dantian.

Lin

 

What kind of process happens when you do this? A diversion of sexual energy? Some kind of refinement?

Thank you.

[Oolong Rabbit]

Ok here's my update on retention: (as in not ejaculating for a longer period)

 

I usually get, after one week, increased sexual dreams and wet dreams. I have never made it past 21 days because of that.

 

One of the recomendations here was to sleep om my side, instead of my stomach. I have managed to have some nights on my side, it is better. But still I get the sexual dreams.

 

So I became quite sceptical if it is really good for me, and I asked an experienced yoga teacher what he makes of the whole sex transmutation/retention thing.

 

He says it works for him. He teaches classes 6 times a day and then walks for half an hour to go to the gym. And then he says "guess how old I am." I said:41. He says: 61. I was shocked. The guy hardly has any wrinkles, super clear eyes and skin and does not look old at all. Simply amazing.

 

So I asked him, why isn't it working for me?

 

Before I give you his answer, I would like to hear your opinions on what food could be causing my sexual dreams. What was effective for you?

 

Well I can already tell you 2 foods he mentioned are garlic and onions, but I am not eating either of them.

 

 

I am on 4 weeks now. I do start getting sporadic sexual dreams aound 2-3 weeks in as well. Ironically this happened last night. There seems to be a catch though. The women I dream about are total turn offs. I am almost embrarassed to discuss this, but the dream I had last night was about a really ugly obese prostitue (trust me I would not make this stuff up, and if I did it would be Uma Thurman). I could not get into things and then in the dream my 5 yr old son walked into the room and I woke up shortly after. My guess is that my higher self is seing the reality of these illusions. The ugly harlot represents my sexual desires and my son purity and innocence.

 

As for diet, here's my guess from a previous post I made:

 

I would strongly recommend staying away from caffeine as well. Especially in commerical joints that use high doses like starbucks etc.... I speak from experience here. I had been holding off for around 3 weeks with almost no effort. I was surprised at how little it bothered me because my sex drive is usually fairly healthy. To make a long story short, I ended up working the weekend as a last minute thing. Both days I drank large coffees from one of the popular coffee chains. Both days I was horny as hell to the point of blue balls and couldn't take it anymore. Maybe it's coincidence, but I have noticed multiple times in the past when caffeine has had this effect. Coincidentally this effect seems to be much much stronger when I buy the chain coffee than if I brew my own at home. I have even wondered if there are other chemical addictives in the coffee in addition to caffeine. I went so far as to research this, but they claim that there are no 'additives'. My only other guesses are that they are using genetically altered coffee beans which produce a higher level of 'naturally' occuring caffeine, or the way they brew it concentrates the caffeine more highly.

 

* I would also add to that list most of the stuff that Marena Lindberg recommends in her book The Orgasmic Diet: Oily Fish, Dark Chocolate etc... although I have a theory that this could speed up jing production which could be beneficial if you could tame the urges.

[mantis]

my best advice is not to talk about it... i was celibate (no porn, masturbation, etc) for almost 50 days. i had a wet dream after talking to my friend about something sex related. how do i know? the dream involved exactly what we where talking about. yeah, it's that deep.

 

now i'm on my 8th day except i'm including masturbation and pornography; this is mostly so that once i have a partner non-ejac sex will be a breeze (i hope..). masturbating and not ejaculating requires... a lot of discipline, so i guess take it with a grain of salt if your considering retention.

Edited January 29, 2008 by mantis

[Vantage]

As for diet, here's my guess from a previous post I made: Caffeine

 

He definetly mentioned caffeine yes. I was aware of it for quite some time.

 

I had not drank coffee for a month, when last christmas I stayed over at my father. Since he is a regular coffee drinker, I could not resist the temptation. The same night I had a wet dream. The next morning I had coffee again, and again a wet dream that night.

 

So if anyone is having libido problems, caffeine is great. But if you're into retention, better stay away from it.

 

The answer of the yoga teacher as to the reason of my wet dreams was:

1 Impurity of food. He says no meat, eggs, garlic, onions, coffee.

2 He said: You may need to practice yoga and pranayma too for even distribution of energy.

Edited January 29, 2008 by Vantage

[Mal]

[Oolong Rabbit]

This might sound weird, but I think maybe the key is just not to try so damn hard. Often I find my mind wandering down fantasy road. I just acknowledge the thought and let it go. Mal, do you do Kunlun everyday, and if so do you find it somehow gets your libido under control?

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=4317&hl=

[Mal]

[Vantage]

Are you a vegetarian Mal?

 

I think this may be important. I am not sure yet, but I will experiment with it.

[mantis]

i don't recommend becoming a vegetarian, i eat red meat and 85% cacao chocolate and i still don't get issues retaining.

[Vantage]

i don't recommend becoming a vegetarian, i eat red meat and 85% cacao chocolate and i still don't get issues retaining.

 

Ok interesting. Why are you mentioning the chocolate?

 

PS. on the meat eating: it may work for some,but not for others. I'm going to try it out. Otherwise retention will not work for me.

Edited January 29, 2008 by Vantage

[Oolong Rabbit]

i don't recommend becoming a vegetarian, i eat red meat and 85% cacao chocolate and i still don't get issues retaining.

 

Hi Mantis,

 

I am big on dark chocolate too. Are you on Marena's (a.k.a. Witch) diet by any chance? I was thinking about testing it as I believe it could speed up the body's jing production. The kicker is that it could also ramp up your sex drive and make retention more difficult.

 

I am also considering going veg for a week or so before the cultivation meeting, but haven't decided yet. I am not a big eater of red meat as it stands.

[Oolong Rabbit]

Ok interesting. Why are you mentioning the chocolate?

 

It has a bunch of alleged health benefits. It's also recommended by former Tao Bum member Witch in her book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Orgasmic-Diet-Revolu...0662&sr=8-1

 

The book is primarily for women, but she has some relevant info for men as well. Most of which has been posted in the following threads:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=3389&hl=

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=3417&hl=