Buddhist ajna chakra training?

[ralis]

I think you find more of that level of stuff happening with things like deity yoga.  In other traditions that would be like connecting and activating the 3rd eye.

 

I was referring as to how the Buddha was enlightened. The Visuddhimagga is an abridged version of the Pali Canon and has many overlooked details. It was the Tibetan Buddhist monastics that created the division of different levels of practice and realization. BTW, Tibetan Buddhism is Lamaism as posited by Donald Lopez in which he emphasized that Tibetan Buddhism  is a conglomerate of various traditions and practices. See also David Snellgrove's comments regarding the corruption of Sanskrit translations to Tibetan which is somewhere in the first 50 pages of the Hevajra Tantra.

[Jeff]

I was referring as to how the Buddha was enlightened. The Visuddhimagga is an abridged version of the Pali Canon and has many overlooked details. It was the Tibetan Buddhist monastics that created the division of different levels of practice and realization. BTW, Tibetan Buddhism is Lamaism as posited by Donald Lopez in which he emphasized that Tibetan Buddhism  is a conglomerate of various traditions and practices. See also David Snellgrove's comments regarding the corruption of Sanskrit translations to Tibetan which is somewhere in the first 50 pages of the Hevajra Tantra.

 

 

I was not really trying to defend the structure and framework of Tantric buddhist traditions.  Just more responding to the question regarding how access to things like higher chakras are supported in the framework.  Here is another specific example...

 

Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Concerning the inner way of taking refuge, which trainings does one need to practice? The master replied: There are eight trainings. First there are the three special trainings.

 

1. Having taken refuge in the guru, you should not feel ill will toward him or even the intention to deride him.

2. Having taken refuge in the yidam, you should not interrupt the meditation of the yidam’s form or its recitation.

3. Having taken refuge in the dakini, you should not break the periodical offering days.

 

The five general trainings are the following.

 

1. Consecrate as nectar, the first part of whatever you eat or drink. Offer it visualizing the guru above your head. Offer it, visualizing the yidam in your heart center and the dakini in your navel center. You should train in partaking of food in this way.

2. In whichever direction you go, supplicate the guru, yidam, and dakini. Visualize the guru above the crown of your head. Visualize yourself as the yidam and visualize the dakini and the Dharma protectors as your escorts. This is the training in walking. 3. Even at the cost of your life or limb, you should train in regarding the guru to be as dear as your heart, the yidam as dear as your eyes, and the dakini as dear as your body.

4. No matter what happens, such as sickness, difficulty or ease, joy or sorrow, you should train in supplicating the guru, making offerings to the yidam, and giving feasts and torma to the dakini. Other than that, you should not pursue other means such as soothsaying and shamanistic rituals.

5. Recollecting the virtues of the guru, yidam, and dakini, you should take refuge again and again. By taking refuge in the guru, obstacles are cleared away. By taking refuge in the yidam, the body of mahamudra will be attained. By taking refuge in the dakini, you will receive the siddhis.

 

padmasambhava guru Rinpoche (2013-12-01). Dakini Teachings.  Rangjung Yeshe Publications.

 

These higher level practices and the associated visualizations hit what would be the crown and 3rd eye in other traditions. Additionally, people seem to often underestimate the importance the "taking refuge in the dakini" point as how it relates to siddhis (of a buddha)...

[Wells]

.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[Jeff]

1) You think that these are higher level practices?

2) You think that such training techniques (visualization) open or develop energy centers?

 

 

Not as simple visualizations.  But if one has actually been introduced (or tossed into) what Dzogchen practitioners call rigpa, they are very meaningful.  The issue is that most don't realize that level and hence the visualizations are only local mind imagining stuff.

 

In more classical buddhism, these types of things would be completion stage practices.  Only done after one was stable in "quiet mind".

[ralis]

 

I was not really trying to defend the structure and framework of Tantric buddhist traditions.  Just more responding to the question regarding how access to things like higher chakras are supported in the framework.  Here is another specific example...

 

Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Concerning the inner way of taking refuge, which trainings does one need to practice? The master replied: There are eight trainings. First there are the three special trainings.

 

1. Having taken refuge in the guru, you should not feel ill will toward him or even the intention to deride him.

2. Having taken refuge in the yidam, you should not interrupt the meditation of the yidam’s form or its recitation.

3. Having taken refuge in the dakini, you should not break the periodical offering days.

 

The five general trainings are the following.

 

1. Consecrate as nectar, the first part of whatever you eat or drink. Offer it visualizing the guru above your head. Offer it, visualizing the yidam in your heart center and the dakini in your navel center. You should train in partaking of food in this way.

2. In whichever direction you go, supplicate the guru, yidam, and dakini. Visualize the guru above the crown of your head. Visualize yourself as the yidam and visualize the dakini and the Dharma protectors as your escorts. This is the training in walking. 3. Even at the cost of your life or limb, you should train in regarding the guru to be as dear as your heart, the yidam as dear as your eyes, and the dakini as dear as your body.

4. No matter what happens, such as sickness, difficulty or ease, joy or sorrow, you should train in supplicating the guru, making offerings to the yidam, and giving feasts and torma to the dakini. Other than that, you should not pursue other means such as soothsaying and shamanistic rituals.

5. Recollecting the virtues of the guru, yidam, and dakini, you should take refuge again and again. By taking refuge in the guru, obstacles are cleared away. By taking refuge in the yidam, the body of mahamudra will be attained. By taking refuge in the dakini, you will receive the siddhis.

 

padmasambhava guru Rinpoche (2013-12-01). Dakini Teachings.  Rangjung Yeshe Publications.

 

These higher level practices and the associated visualizations hit what would be the crown and 3rd eye in other traditions. Additionally, people seem to often underestimate the importance the "taking refuge in the dakini" point as how it relates to siddhis (of a buddha)...

 

 

I read that years ago and what I believe is in that same text is that he offered her a plate of human shit and encouraged her to see it as nectar. She ate it.

[Wells]

.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[rex]

Exactly.

  

All the so called ethics that the Buddhist monastics teach are nothing more than a way of keeping their lineage intact and furthermore, equates  Buddhist cultural values with a higher transcendent cause. Further, this ties in with a belief in a ubiquitous karmic cause and effect which has no basis in the real world, but in which is a basis of an mythological belief system.

Buddhist methods are intrinsically meshed with a particular ethos and overriding sensibility and are more about relationship then specific tech, though the tech is there.

 

Tech is tech however; so instead of looking to a tradition for which you both display little regard, why not look to the Daoist Kan and Li methods instead?

[ralis]

   Buddhist methods are intrinsically meshed with a particular ethos and overriding sensibility and are more about relationship then specific tech, though the tech is there.

 

Tech is tech however; so instead of looking to a tradition for which you both display little regard, why not look to the Daoist Kan and Li methods instead?

 

I have been through the entire Buddhist trip beginning in 1984 when I read Trungpa's first book. I have received about 70 tantric/Dzogchen transmissions and have been on several solitary retreats of at least two weeks, read most of the texts. Does that mean that I must be in compliance with Tibetan Lamaism and offer no questions or doubt? No!

 

The ethos you refer to is culturally specific. E.g. Tibetan language determines how one thinks and understands.

Edited November 29, 2016 by ralis

[rex]

I have been through the entire Buddhist trip beginning in 1984 when I read Trungpa's first book. I have received about 70 tantric/Dzogchen transmissions and have been on several solitary retreats of at least two weeks, read most of the texts. Does that mean that I must be in compliance with Tibetan Lamaism and offer no questions or doubt? No!

With your long and apparently rancorous relationship with Buddhism, you are seriously unaware of Buddhist methods that use the Anja? Can't you indulge Wells here?

 

Edit: tpyo

Edited November 29, 2016 by rex

[ralis]

Tibetans will view and feel differently than I regarding the Potala Palace. To me I am not in awe but see the Potala as an autocratic monastic system.

 

[ralis]

With your long and apparently rancorous relationship with Buddhism, you are seriously unaware of Buddhist methods that use the Anna? Can't you indulge Wells here?

 

Rancorous? I thoroughly question why this monastic system creates division where none should exist. Secret teachings/levels sustain the patriarchal monastic lineage as opposed to freely giving. That is why the ajna is rarely mentioned. According to Snellgrove all the original tantric Sanskrit texts were lost or destroyed by the monastics after their own uneducated version was written down.

 

Norbu briefly mentions that the ajna is far too intense to focus on and the heart center is the place of practice. I never found the ajna as being problematic.

[Jeff]

So in your understanding, in Tantra an immortal illusory body is build by visualization?

 

 

 

Nope. Not at all.  The visualization is more of building connection beyond the local body mind that helps to break down the local sense of self (ego).  The resulting increased "clarity" helps one to realize the natural buddha that was always really there "underneath".

[wilfred]

the path begins and ends with virtue. purification of mind is about refining virtue, through wisdom and insight, until there are no longer grounds to act in any selfish or ignorant way. and ignorance as we know is a rather large field. can't believe what i am reading in this thread. if people don't fully understand the heart but look for higher practices etc then you kind of miss the point of a spiritual path altogether.

 

sorry for taking it off-topic again but in my experience this is an irrefutable aspect of any path. i find people on the internet generally overlook how refinement of character is integral and it's to their detriment. they would be better served by getting the basics straight, forget any chakra or energetics stuff for a while. and you can practice, receive teachings for years even decades and get nowhere in relation to this without proper guidance. i've seen it and keep seeing it. so if people want to dick measure as to how long they've been going at it etc, it's totally meaningless, lol. likelyhood is they've actually gone backward or at best sideways most of the time. and those who keep jumping from teacher to teacher etc, trying lots of different practices, it nearly always comes from their own restlessness.

 

*drops mic

[ralis]

the path begins and ends with virtue. purification of mind is about refining virtue, through wisdom and insight, until there are no longer grounds to act in any selfish or ignorant way. and ignorance as we know is a rather large field. can't believe what i am reading in this thread. if people don't fully understand the heart but look for higher practices etc then you kind of miss the point of a spiritual path altogether.

 

sorry for taking it off-topic again but in my experience this is an irrefutable aspect of any path. i find people on the internet generally overlook how refinement of character is integral and it's to their detriment. they would be better served by getting the basics straight, forget any chakra or energetics stuff for a while. and you can practice, receive teachings for years even decades and get nowhere in relation to this without proper guidance. i've seen it and keep seeing it. so if people want to dick measure as to how long they've been going at it etc, it's totally meaningless, lol. likelyhood is they've actually gone backward or at best sideways most of the time. and those who keep jumping from teacher to teacher etc, trying lots of different practices, it nearly always comes from their own restlessness.

 

*drops mic

 

A lineage that claims a universal higher cause is extolling virtue? Building a palace on a hill for everyone to see, peasants perform prostrations in that particular direction denotes virtue? Keeping the common person uneducated is virtuous? This particular lineage is well known for feudalism sustaining in Tibet. Appears to be religious authoritarianism.

Edited November 29, 2016 by ralis

[TomBrad]

Is anyone aware of buddhist (especially tibetan buddhist tantric) training systems

which train directly the ajna chakra (the center at the forehead or between the eyebrows)?

Because I am not aware of such a system.

The buddhists to my knowledge simply see it as the upper end of the central channel,

not even as a specific energy center (wheel, chakra) itself,

and seemingly don't treat it with the importance it deserves

and don't have a system which attends and opens it directly.

 

 

Wells,

 

Have you read the book Qigong Empowerment by Shou Yu Liang?  There is a section in it about Buddhist qigong which addresses such training.

[Seth Ananda]

Yidam style training is a far more powerful way of developing 'inner sight' than merely concentrating on the forehead.

 

That said, the eye I think tends to stand for different things depending on the context.

 

It can represent miraculous siddhi sight, like seeing things thousands of miles away, seeing through walls, seeing in 360 degrees, seeing past or future, seeing diseases inside someones body, or seeing spirits and other realms.

These experiences come about through intense practice, and are probably achievable by most with the right dedication. 

 

The other kind of 'eye' however is the eye of prajna or wisdom. Its the ability to see things as they are. Empty, selfless, dependently arising and impermanent.  
All the concentrating on the brow in the world won't help achieve that, well not by itself anyway.  But I do think they can support each other.

For instance seeing through something with siddhi, can help ones understanding that its not as 'real' in a permanent way as it looks.
Also seeing something with wisdom, as an empty dependently arising process breaks the normal view which the strangeness of siddhi sight seems to be able to flower from. 

[Jeff]

With something like deity practice, I think "visualize" is a problematic English word to use to describe it. For one who has truly experienced a guru (connection), a better way to describe it would be more like "merge or be one with". It is not about local mind imagining, more like being one with in universal (or shared) mind.

 

That is why in earlier traditions one would first learn to perfectly quiet the mind first (prelimary practices), before even considering deity practices. If one is actually doing deity/yidam practice, you will easily realize the difference. For Star Trek fans, think of the difference between conentual impulse and warp engines...

Edited November 29, 2016 by Jeff

[ralis]

Yidam style training is a far more powerful way of developing 'inner sight' than merely concentrating on the forehead.

 

That said, the eye I think tends to stand for different things depending on the context.

 

It can represent miraculous siddhi sight, like seeing things thousands of miles away, seeing through walls, seeing in 360 degrees, seeing past or future, seeing diseases inside someones body, or seeing spirits and other realms.

These experiences come about through intense practice, and are probably achievable by most with the right dedication. 

 

The other kind of 'eye' however is the eye of prajna or wisdom. Its the ability to see things as they are. Empty, selfless, dependently arising and impermanent.  

All the concentrating on the brow in the world won't help achieve that, well not by itself anyway.  But I do think they can support each other.

For instance seeing through something with siddhi, can help ones understanding that its not as 'real' in a permanent way as it looks.

Also seeing something with wisdom, as an empty dependently arising process breaks the normal view which the strangeness of siddhi sight seems to be able to flower from. 

 

 

In terms of yidam practice, it depends on the level of practice transmitted. The highest is internal with instant transformation of oneself as the deity. Most are never given that opportunity, but are given a gradual practice.

[Seth Ananda]

In terms of yidam practice, it depends on the level of practice transmitted. The highest is internal with instant transformation of oneself as the deity. Most are never given that opportunity, but are given a gradual practice.

Most need a gradual practice. There are very few people anywhere who can 'become a deity right now' no matter what level of practice they are given.

[Cheshire Cat]

This is hilarious

 

Ajna chakra training? If the idea sells, I will open a chakra-gymnasium "Monday, 3 sets of 15 repetitions of secret muladhara squat", "wednesday, 2 sets of 10 repetitions of esoteric visuddha pull-up" :lol:

 

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[SeekerOfHealing]

You are speaking of course in terms of esoteric buddhism? There are various ways. They have many ways depends on the tantra/school/lineage. They open in by cutting up the skull a little and opening with the special "tool" to trigger third eye opening. This is one of secret practices. The other is thru opening and thrusting channels in the eyes.

 

I have luck to being known in the second practice of opening third eye and it's very hard to do so and it's gives enormous superpowers or siddhis. Even basic opening or little stage of accomplishment you can know things about past and future in your mind - very interesting experience.

[rex]

Rancorous? I thoroughly question why this monastic system creates division where none should exist. Secret teachings/levels sustain the patriarchal monastic lineage as opposed to freely giving. That is why the ajna is rarely mentioned. According to Snellgrove all the original tantric Sanskrit texts were lost or destroyed by the monastics after their own uneducated version was written down.

 

Norbu briefly mentions that the ajna is far too intense to focus on and the heart center is the place of practice. I never found the ajna as being problematic.

Theocracies do contain inherent but not insurmountable contradictions. Even elements of these traditions themselves acknowledge the contradictions and difficulties; there's that story about a master being questioned by monks from another school who were looking for a sectarian reason to beat him up, and there have been tensions between monastic centres and the terma tradition. The terma tradition does not rely on sanskrit sources.

 

The suggestion of rancour enters with your seeming unquenchable thirst for the blood of existing teachers and a theocracy that no longer exists. You've apparently received all the teachings but still take issue with the teachers and traditions. There's more openness now, available translations and teachers teaching openly then there were ten years ago. Arguably other Western and Eastern traditions are more secretive and difficult to gain admittance to.

[steve]

The useless and frustrated passive-aggressiveness of some people reminds me

of that of castrated tomcats who contemplate female cats:

It must be the knowledge of never being able to get the real thing although sitting right next to the source.

Nothing but many daily hours prostrating in worn-though robes with sore knees in front of the tv

until they are too old to continue.

 

However, I still look forward to more useful input into this thread instead of clap-trap.

 

Ouch

 

 

Here is the only public teaching I've seen.

The exercise using the 3rd eye is described starting around 47 minutes in.

The whole talk is worth a listen.

 

Meow!

 

[steve]

The 3rd eye chakra is also used in dream practices in a slightly different way.

There are 4 categories of dream experiences - peaceful, expanding, powerful, and wrathful (notice the same characterizations are used to describe deities).

The 3rd eye chakra is used to help induce dreams of expansiveness and growth.

 

Practices with chakras are a tool to peak inward; each chakra reflects an important energetic aspect of our experience.

They all connect to the central channel. Residing in the central channel is a good "tech" skill to work on.

Visualizing, then feeling, then being the fundamental inseparability space and awareness that resides there.

 

"The center of the victorious mandala, one's own body.

 The source of all positive qualities without exception!

 Is the expanse within the three channels and the five chakras.

 I take refuge in this body of emptiness..."

 - Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche     Prayer of the first refuge, the Body of Emptiness

 

Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche makes the highest level tantric and dzogchen teachings accessible to the Western student. Everything is there, for free, online, if you are fortunate enough to be karmically connected. I think you are right in your other thread, karma is the key - simply seeing the truth in that could make your experience with thodgal worthwhile I should think. There is no greater truth than karma. And you can influence your karma; in fact every action we take is our karma. Showing an understanding of that in our lives through our conduct, that is the next step after seeing the truth of it. Then we actually bring those qualities to life - peace, growth, power, wrath. We manifest the perfected aspects of ourselves. This is the manifestation of the 3 bodies...

 

It's not rainbow body yet but I think it's a start...

 

You may want to look more into sleep yoga. It is a direct method to recognize and connect with the clear light. The clear light is the key to all bardo practices which is fundamentally related to the rainbow body. 

[awaken]

The third eye can receive light.

 

There are two kind of lights.

 

One is 鉛氣.

 

This lights is easy to see.

 

It looks like aurora sometimes.

 

If you are a long tern practicer for many years, the light will become a point, 黍米.

 

Another kind of lights belongs to emptiness.

 

It looks like mandala sometimes, Snow flying, a big hole, full moon, a light person etc.

 

There are two states of lights, 鉛氣光 and 金氣光.

 

When your practicing enter a deeper state, you start to see many kind of light in every meditation.

 

All your mediation become a light seeing.

 

The stage is the ajna training.

 

You need to find the right way to chage the first stage of 鉛light to the second stage of 金光.

 

Your third eyes need to get to sleep very deeply, and then wake up in 三昧正受 samadhi state.

 

The 金氣光 will happen in samadhi state.

 

The boundary between 鉛 and 金 is fake and real, is 識神隱元神顯.