War, Peace, and Putin

[redcairo]

This guy... he has a gift as a statesman.

 

Every time I see him speak on video I am impressed again. And I consider Russia the enemy and him a bad guy, so this is really saying something.

 

Someone via Anonymous theorizes that Russia hates the USA and wanted Trump to win solely because they think it will ruin us, like mwahahahaha.

 

They point out the close relation of Russia with China. Which Trump is the enemy of due to the trade stuff he insisting on.

 

But I think maybe he just has a point about the whole military and war stuff, namely that we simply do not take him (or anyone else) seriously.

 

I remember Iran's former lunatic leader whose name I forget right now. He said that he could say the most specific things about his intents to do us in and that our response was basically to wave it away like he couldn't possibly mean it. (I see the left doing that concerning Islam and Sharia as well. Like we simply cannot wrap our brains around anybody thinking differently than we do. A lot of that was seen in the recent election I suspect.)

 

I found this video interesting. I don't know what room the new President will have for making changes, if any, in our approach to war... but it would be nice if we would at the very least, take more seriously international leaders.

 

I turned this up to 1.5 speed in the settings which is more reasonable, for reading the subtitles.

 

 

RC

[Wells]

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Edited March 2, 2017 by Wells

[gatito]

[redcairo]

Why do you think that Putin is "the bad guy"

 

Because a> he is a major political leader and I don't trust politicians of any kind, and b> I grew up during the cold war and I have not yet been able to shake the prejudice that all things Russian are fundamentally untrustworthy.

 

But on video at least, I just can't help but LIKE the guy, even through those biases. One thing is certain at least, while he speaks, he utterly believes what he is saying. Of course I've known pathological liars who are that way but when it works like that it's a personality pathology and I don't think he has that. (That is to say if/when he lies I believe it would be on purpose, not out of delusion.) But he comes across as very sincere.

 

And of course, it doesn't help that his message -- somewhat consistently everywhere, about everything, and for years -- is always basically like, here we are, we are doing our best to be strong but decent, but the usa doesn't do anything they say, violates everything they promise, gives weapons to our enemies and influences sources all over the world to do us economic harm, and we keep talking but it seems like nobody's listening, and if some of these situations don't improve we're going to end up in another war that forks the whole world, so it would sure be nice if they would be reasonable for once.

 

I find it pointedly confusing that my own leaders, in addition to being almost stupendously bad at the sort of statesman things he is very good at, don't have any explanation, and don't seem to feel obliged to even try to make one to anybody including us, for what we are doing and why, or why we would keep driving all these things relentlessly as if a leader at his level repeatedly saying these things is not serious.

 

The thing the video said that threw me for a loop was all about us putting missile launchers in Romania. Really? I had no idea we were doing anything in Romania. I'm not very good at geography so I had to look up a map to see the relationship of Iran to Romania. Here is one that worked to show me where Turkey was in relationship:

 

 

And this one showed where Iran, Syria etc. were in relationship to Turkey:

 

And of course his point about the offshore missiles -- you can put any kind into a missile launcher and they are deployable within hours, since naval vessels move and sometimes at great speed -- is decent.

 

The effort for good relations with China is fairly obvious if one looks at their border since that's a huge neighbor. Not being on their good side would be like us arguing with Canada. Although I imagine to myself with humor they would be very polite. So sorry! Yes, we don't agree on that eh? :-)

 

RC

Edited November 13, 2016 by redcairo

[dawei]

This guy... he has a gift as a statesman.

 

Agree.

 

Every time I see him speak on video I am impressed again. And I consider Russia the enemy and him a bad guy, so this is really saying something.

 

Not exactly healthy view to hold in and maybe the US's version of propaganda against Russia over a very long time is instilled in many. 

 

Someone via Anonymous theorizes that Russia hates the USA and wanted Trump to win solely because they think it will ruin us, like mwahahahaha.

 

I don't agree... seems more conspiracy theory.

 

They point out the close relation of Russia with China. Which Trump is the enemy of due to the trade stuff he insisting on.

 

Trump is not the enemy of China... in fact, Chinese really like him and on social media want to partly take claim of helping him win... so we're back to suggesting the powers to be are enemies.  Again,  historically this propaganda is even stronger due to their early presence here before and fear of what their presence might mean to the US.   For the US, everyone is almost an enemy on some level.   There is much more fear-mongering among our political establishment regarding other countries than maybe we're willing to admin.

 

Now, Trump does have an issue with their dollar (RMB valuation) and trade imbalance...  I think it is more political cycle rhetoric and we may not see him really try to tackle too much as who really holds more leverage to hurt the other?

 

Because a> he is a major political leader and I don't trust politicians of any kind, and b> I grew up during the cold war and I have not yet been able to shake the prejudice that all things Russian are fundamentally untrustworthy.

 

Same as above... unhealthy view based on years of US propaganda... JMO

 

Trump needs to mend fences that the US has let deteriorate.  Time for the two bullies to see they can get along better. 

 

I find it pointedly confusing that my own leaders, in addition to being almost stupendously bad at the sort of statesman things he is very good at, don't have any explanation, and don't seem to feel obliged to even try to make one to anybody including us, for what we are doing and why, or why we would keep driving all these things relentlessly as if a leader at his level repeatedly saying these things is not serious.

 

Agree... but I had to read it a few time   

[Taomeow]

Out of context it is impossible to understand who he is, what he did, and how and why he did it.   

 

But I can reasonably predict what he will do because I do know the context.

 

He will make Russia great again.  

 

Or he will ruin it trying.

 

Russia is an old, old empire, a thousand years older than the US.   it is not easy to ruin on a permanent basis, though there were, historically, hundreds of attempts.  In the '90s of the last century they came pretty close though. 

 

Putin, for reasons best known to himself, managed to put a stop to the process.  He keeps trying to backpedal from the edge of the abyss that has swallowed so many countries in the past 25 years.  Not gently, not expertly, not cleanly.  Do an experiment yourself:  stand on the edge of the abyss, ask a few strong bullies to push you (that's what his predecessor, Yeltsin, did), and try not to fall.  You are likely to grab frantically at whatever you can grab onto, flailing your arms, kicking your legs, dirt flying, stones rolling, it won't be pretty.  But the last thing on your mind will be to attack anyone in this position.  Perhaps you'll accidentally sock one of the bullies in the face, give him a bloody nose or a black eye.  But you are fighting for your life, and they are trying to kill you.  They will scream that you are the aggressor of course.  But you are just someone who is trying to survive a very deadly form of bullying.  Try it and you will know first hand what happened in Russia almost as well as most Russians do. 

[gatito]

The Russian Narrative of the Post Cold War era in less than six minutes..

 

The video below contains an answer from Vladimir Putin to a question from veteran BBC “journalist” John Simpson.. In less than six minutes the President of the Russian Federation explains their point of view on the post cold war era in a most devastating manner.

 

It is a calm and skillful demolition of the Western <American> narrative regarding Russia in all it’s infantile and morally bankrupt depravity. Even those who disagree have the opportunity at least to hear the Russian viewpoint expressed in a succinct yet powerful way.

 

The core of it is that when the USSR was dismantled the West continued with the tactics of the Cold war and continued to treat Russia as an adversary despite the end of the defining ideological difference <between it - Russia - and the USSR>.

 

From their point of view the acquiescence of Russia to the Wests <Americans'> demands in terms of economic policy were met with encirclement, missile shields aimed at achieving Nuclear first strike capability and colour revolutions on their borders to replace their <the Soviet's> <former> allies with the stooges <allies> of the West <Americans>.

 

The Russian narrative has two central virtues, it is simple and it is largely true although some less “helpful” facts tend to be edited from the narrative as you would expect.

 

I've edited the accompanying description (quoted above) slightly to make it a little less "intense".

 

 

In Europe, we have cohabited with the Bear in our backyard for a thousand years, without having a permanent accident.

 

Personally, I'd be quite happy to continue to live happily in a Europe that's not a battlefield.

 

Incidentally, the EU was the practical response to the cartoon below (and I'll grant that it - the EU - still needs a bit more fine tuning).

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by gatito

[redcairo]

Thanks.

 

I really liked this one. It kind of emphasizes that he is focused on the people (at home).

 

[gendao]

He will make Russia great again.  

 

Or he will ruin it trying.

 

Russia is an old, old empire, a thousand years older than the US.   it is not easy to ruin on a permanent basis, though there were, historically, hundreds of attempts.  In the '90s of the last century they came pretty close though.

It's useful to consider the 3 animal icons at play here:

 

1) US = Eagle = fierce, fast-moving, carnivorous, apex predator

2) Russia = Bear = more lumbering, but extremely powerful, omnivore

3) China = Panda = very slow-moving, cute, vegetarian bear that only strikes back when prodded (and not that well at that, lol)

Edited November 14, 2016 by gendao

[Taomeow]

Nice, but the animal emblem of China is not the panda.  It's the dragon.

 

And dragons are extremely versatile.  They can hibernate longer than bears and strike faster than eagles.  They can be so huge they cover the sky, and so tiny they can live in the inseam of your jeans.  They can shapeshift, mate with other animals, and appear as humans. 

 

Dragons are not endemic to China, they live everywhere.  But in the past they supported China because it was the land where they were venerated rather than vilified.  However, they say the construction of the Great Wall broke the back of China's main dragon, and of course dragons have a very long memory, they take hundreds of thousands of years to forget and tens of thousands to forgive.  So if in modern times the dragon sides with the eagle against the bear, it may be an act of revenge.  And if the dragon sides with the bear against the eagle, ditto. 

 

They are dangerous animals all of them.

 

The only way to appease the dragon would be to allow it to mate with the tiger, which is what taoists are trying to facilitate.  I hope we succeed. 

[joeblast]

lmao....I'm pretty sure you werent making some orange haired analogy, but it was funny anyway, hahahaha

[Taomeow]

lmao....I'm pretty sure you werent making some orange haired analogy, but it was funny anyway, hahahaha

 

Apparently this has already occurred to someone in Lithuania.

 

 

Lithuania, a little Germany-wannabe (where I once used to forage for wild mushrooms and berries while listening to all manner of political nonsense from the locals who could never forget that they were the mighty Rzeczpospolita in the 16th-17th centuries and now blame Putin for its demise), may warm up toward Russia now that her president seems to be making out with a guy whose original family name was Drumpf.   

[redcairo]

Funny.

 

Sometimes, in watching Putin on video, I feel this odd 'empathy in my spine': as if he is one of the loneliest people in the world, and the heart is maintained only by the sheer strength of the backbone. Hard to explain. My body often takes on empathy or anthropomorphism for me. :-) 

 

There are lots of leaders. I see lots of people on video. I don't know why it's only him that moves me like that.

 

RC

Edited November 15, 2016 by redcairo

[Taomeow]

Funny.

 

Sometimes, in watching Putin on video, I feel this odd 'empathy in my spine': as if he is one of the loneliest people in the world, and the heart is maintained only by the sheer strength of the backbone. Hard to explain. My body often takes on empathy or anthropomorphism for me. :-) 

 

There are lots of leaders. I see lots of people on video. I don't know why it's only him that moves me like that.

 

RC

 

I don't know if it says something about his politics, but here's a story about his backbone.  Mind you, my hatred for the KGB whence he comes is relentless and undying, and far from abstract -- me and my family lived that history and not all survived it.

But this is about something else methinks. 

 

In 1989, when the Berlin wall came tumbling down as they say, what they don't say is that a lot of looting and rioting took place immediately following the event, all the pent-up feelings and behaviors temporarily let loose.  At the time Major Putin was the head of the Dresden office of the KGB.  (Which explains his fluent German.)  When it became known that the rioting crowd was headed toward that office, all the personnel fled, abandoning it to its fate.  Files of spies and double agents and what not, perhaps enough material to execute or lynch a whole lot of Germans right on the spot.  At the time, everybody spied on everybody there, so...

 

Anyway, everybody fled except for Putin.  His colleagues were admonishing him before fleeing, telling him he'd be killed by the mob.  He said, I have no choice, I have to try defending the office, it's my duty.  So he waited on the steps, armed with a pistol, aiming it at the mob. 

 

They shouted at him telling him to step aside.  He politely responded that he hates to be stubborn and uncooperative but it is his service duty to defend the building, and that he will defend it for as long as he has bullets.   

 

The mob yelled and cursed and backed down and moved on to loot something else. 

 

The story  appears to be well documented as there were many witnesses.

 

I think politicians who like to use scare tactics against Putin need to familiarize themselves with this story before playing chicken with him. 

[gendao]

Nice, but the animal emblem of China is not the panda.  It's the dragon.

Historically yes, but in modern times China has arguably adopted the Panda as its international symbol. 

Clue - what's on its standard bullion now?

Edited November 15, 2016 by gendao

[joeblast]

after talking with trump, russia goes and slams ISIS with a massive bombing campaign, a sortie launched every 21 seconds or something crazy, 300 airstrikes in a couple hours time

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/15/aleppo-airstrikes-resume-as-russia-announces-major-syria-offensive

 

 

https://www.rt.com/news/366995-anti-terrorist-operation-carrier/

 

 

of course, US media.....siiiiiilent....no drudge, tiny linked article on breitbart....

[redcairo]

Had it not been so publicized that Putin was publicly happy about Trump, the media would be hailing it as proof that his win meant Russia was now out of control as they had no respect for or fear of him. :-)

 

RC

[gatito]

Theresa May reveals 150 British troops to be deployed to Poland to 'deter Russian aggression'
 

 

 
(And what's even funnier (if that were possible) is that it's fake news, as this deployment was announced by Michael Fallon last July). But that's typical of the Evening Standard.

Edited December 1, 2016 by gatito

[Marblehead]

150 British troops are going to deter the entire Russian Army?  Right.  Yes, that is funny.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Marblehead

[gatito]

Exactly!

 

And what's also funny is that the Poles and the British have been incited to bait the Bear by the Americans.

 

Very bad idea: -

 

 

 

 

 

[gatito]

Still, the good thing is that NATO's finished and we can now get on with making our own arrangements (which don't involve an American-driven war in our backyard).

[redcairo]

150 British troops are going to deter the entire Russian Army?  Right.  Yes, that is funny.

 

Russia may be a lot smaller now but yes, that's a Godzilla vs. Bambi scenario.

 

Given we can only have so many enemies at once before going under, and given our determination to make the entire middle east more overtly our enemy, I think more peace with the rest of the east would be groovy.

 

And I like Putin. Dammit. Much as I keep trying not to.

 

RC

[Brian]

150 British troops are going to deter the entire Russian Army? Right. Yes, that is funny.

I picture it as a Monty Python skit, for some reason...

 

[Marblehead]

Exactly!

 

And what's also funny is that the Poles and the British have been incited to bait the Bear by the Americans.

 

Very bad idea: -

 

 

Yep.  That has been Obama's policy and it would have been continued by Clinton.

[Marblehead]

 

And I like Putin. Dammit. Much as I keep trying not to.

 

RC

And I think his wife is very attractive too.