TheWhiteRabbit Posted October 30, 2016 Does free speech offend you? Naturally most falls outside the harm principle 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drifting_Through_Infinity Posted October 31, 2016 Homeless people are not free. Homeless people are not equal. Capitalists do not believe in freedom or equality, except for the few. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheWhiteRabbit Posted October 31, 2016 I often wonder why liberals try to turn in everyone who disagrees with them... Oh wait... .... DrumRoll ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted October 31, 2016 Homeless people are not free. Homeless people are not equal. Capitalists do not believe in freedom or equality, except for the few. Then you have never met a capitalist and you have never heard a capitalist. Capitalist believe man should have the freedom to own the fruits of his own effort and that he trades voluntarily with other men value for value. We are all equal in that we possess the faculty of reason in order that we can survive by producing. Everyone is free to produce and the more productive one is, then the greater wealth there is for everyone because of free trade. Even relatively poor producers can thrive in a laissez faire capitalist system. Here is the reality. If you can't or won't produce, then you cannot eat. There is no excuse for men who are fit and devoid of mental deformities not to produce for themselves and to trade with other men. No one is guaranteed a meal, they may get one by charity, by the mercy of other men, but they have not earned it. To have a value, one must earn a value. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheWhiteRabbit Posted October 31, 2016 I busted a gut over this... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted October 31, 2016 Here is the reality. If you can't or won't produce, then you cannot eat. There is no excuse for men who are fit and devoid of mental deformities not to produce for themselves and to trade with other men. No one is guaranteed a meal, they may get one by charity, by the mercy of other men, but they have not earned it. To have a value, one must earn a value. UK: http://england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns_/why_we_campaign/tackling_homelessness/What_causes_homelessness "Sadly, many people view homelessness as the result of personal failings, and consider that if the economy is going well, there is no excuse for not getting on. But this belief is belied by the facts, which show that homelessness is caused by a complex interplay between a person's individual circumstances and adverse 'structural' factors outside their direct control." Canada: http://homelesshub.ca/about-homelessness/homelessness-101/causes-homelessness "People who are homeless are not a distinct and separate population. In fact the line between being homeless and not being homeless is quite fluid. In general, the pathways into and out of homelessness are neither linear nor uniform. Individuals and families who wind up homeless may not share much in common with each other, aside from the fact that they are extremely vulnerable, and lack adequate housing and income and the necessary supports to ensure they stay housed. The causes of homelessness reflect an intricate interplay between structural factors, systems failures and individual circumstances. Homelessness is usually the result of the cumulative impact of a number of factors, rather than a single cause." Australia: http://www.salvationarmy.org.au/en/Who-We-Are/our-work/Homelessness/Why-are-people-homeless/ Homelessness can be caused by:poverty unemployment lack of affordable housing poor physical or mental health drug and alcohol abuse gambling family and relationship breakdown domestic violence physical and/or sexual abuse. Reality, eh, Karl? You love to talk of "man" and "men", never "humans" or "women" or "people" You assume that people who have less money, or even nowhere to live, are simply lazy and obnoxious. Your speech betrays your sexism and lack of compassion for other humans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted October 31, 2016 Don't be an arse. You assume far too much. I'm talking of a system of free market laissez faire capitalism and not what we have currently. When people have no rights to their own property, production or happiness then they are not free. The problem is that you have to grasp that this is so. I do not believe that people who have less money, or who are homeless are obnoxious, I know they are the sad refuse of a system that has stripped them of their self esteem and self confidence. I hate that this is what has happened to them and I hate it that our Governments strip money from the productive, take a fat cut for themselves and throw them crumbs on which they have become dependent. What causes people to lose self esteem and confidence-the initiation of force. It is force that destroys reason, it kills men's spirits, it rewards those who seek power and prestige and disinsentivises production. It penalises the producers, it destroys the good for being the good and rewards the corrupt. The do gooders simply destroy the poor without giving them any hope of being able to rise from their knees. The do gooders can feel good only by having a vast supply of downtrodden poor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted October 31, 2016 Re: ----- "Homeless people are not free." ----- Yes, they are. They can be free from mortgage loan payments, leases, property taxes, home maintenance, utility costs, and many more enslavements. And they are still right here at home on Earth. -VonKrankenhaus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted October 31, 2016 Re: ----- "Here is the reality. If you can't or won't produce, then you cannot eat. There is no excuse for men who are fit and devoid of mental deformities not to produce for themselves and to trade with other men." ----- That's not how nature works. You stole your first breath, and every one after that one. Like the original thefts from which sales are generated. Nature is the only true producer. This idea of "work" comes from those who would enslave others for their own relative gain. It is the work for idiots, those who forgot the world. - VonKrankenhaus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Posted November 1, 2016 Then you have never met a capitalist and you have never heard a capitalist. Capitalist believe man should have the freedom to own the fruits of his own effort and that he trades voluntarily with other men value for value. We are all equal in that we possess the faculty of reason in order that we can survive by producing. Everyone is free to produce and the more productive one is, then the greater wealth there is for everyone because of free trade. Even relatively poor producers can thrive in a laissez faire capitalist system. Here is the reality. If you can't or won't produce, then you cannot eat. There is no excuse for men who are fit and devoid of mental deformities not to produce for themselves and to trade with other men. No one is guaranteed a meal, they may get one by charity, by the mercy of other men, but they have not earned it. To have a value, one must earn a value. Usufruct is not the same as owning property rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usufruct 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
