Vipassana and Theravada

[Vajra Fist]

I have been mulling starting the Buddhist path more seriously than I currently have been. I asked my medical clairvoyant to test several schools to see which is the most effective and suitable for me. Among those I tested was vipassana which was said to not be particularly effective for me, and theravada which was the most effective.

 

This left me scratching my head and doing a great deal of Googling about what the differences are between the two.

 

Is it true that theravada is mostly about cultivating a one-pointed mind in meditation, whereas vipassana is a more wider mindfulness (ie. body scanning, sound, breath).

 

Moreover is theravada characterised by the Buddho mantra whereas vipassana does not?

 

Is vipassana more secular?

 

Apologies if this is a newbie question.

[Mandrake]

I have been mulling starting the Buddhist path more seriously than I currently have been. I asked my medical clairvoyant to test several schools to see which is the most effective and suitable for me. Among those I tested was vipassana which was said to not be particularly effective for me, and theravada which was the most effective.

 

This left me scratching my head and doing a great deal of Googling about what the differences are between the two.

 

Is it true that theravada is mostly about cultivating a one-pointed mind in meditation, whereas vipassana is a more wider mindfulness (ie. body scanning, sound, breath).

 

Moreover is theravada characterised by the Buddho mantra whereas vipassana does not?

 

Is vipassana more secular?

 

Apologies if this is a newbie question.

 

At this point I would seriously question the "clairvoyant" that you go to.

 

"Among those I tested was vipassana which was said to not be particularly effective for me, and theravada which was the most effective."

 

This is a severe contradiction. Theravada is a branch of Buddhism, and vipassana is a technique of insight which is at the core of Buddhism and what distinguishes it from other Indian traditions. If your "clairvoyant" truelly had any powers he wouldn't come up with confusion and contradiction.

 

"Is it true that theravada is mostly about cultivating a one-pointed mind in meditation, whereas vipassana is a more wider mindfulness (ie. body scanning, sound, breath)"

 

No, it is not true at all. Theravada is a branch of Buddhism based on the pali cannon. It has a particular philosophy, psychology, aim and set of methods to take you toward that aim. One-pointedness (which is a misrepresentation) is one of the tools, but definitely not what makes Theravada different.

 

"Moreover is theravada characterised by the Buddho mantra whereas vipassana does not?"

 

Nope. You are placing Theravada and vipassana in the same category, which is a mistake.

 

"Is vipassana more secular?"

 

You ask this because you lack understanding.

My advice is to get some solid, reliable information directly from the source and not from twisted outsiders. There are good introductory books by recognized masters from the Theravadic tradition. This is a lifetime endeavour that you are considering, and if you can't bother studying in order to get a clear picture then you most probably are not ripe for spiritual practice.

 

 

Mandrake

[RiverSnake]

It may be beneficial to do some self inquiry into what are you actually seeking in the 1st place. 

Edited October 17, 2016 by OldWolf

[Vajra Fist]

Wow, that's a reply that really appears to lack compassion. Sorry if you're having a bad day.

 

I have practiced qigong for over a decade, but buddhism is quite new to me. Hence my asking for advice. Apologies for any offence I might have caused.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Vajra Fist

[steve]

I have been mulling starting the Buddhist path more seriously than I currently have been. I asked my medical clairvoyant to test several schools to see which is the most effective and suitable for me. Among those I tested was vipassana which was said to not be particularly effective for me, and theravada which was the most effective.

 

This left me scratching my head and doing a great deal of Googling about what the differences are between the two.

 

Is it true that theravada is mostly about cultivating a one-pointed mind in meditation, whereas vipassana is a more wider mindfulness (ie. body scanning, sound, breath).

 

Moreover is theravada characterised by the Buddho mantra whereas vipassana does not?

 

Is vipassana more secular?

 

Apologies if this is a newbie question.

 

 

Theravada is a sect of Buddhism. Others include Mahayana, Vajrayana, and a variety of Chinese and Japanese schools, including Chan and Zen. Here is one resource that helps explain the different schools - http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/schools.htm. The Vipassana movement is an offshoot of the Theravada school that started in Burma in the 1950's.There are many other resources you could investigate.

 

Vipassana refers to a specific meditative practice and experience, often referred to as insight meditation or 'to see things as they really are.' Most schools, including Theravada schools, first teach shamatha, a technique to quiet and focus the mind, followed by vipassana, a technique to gain insight into the abiding nature of things. Some teach vipassana from the beginning - the so called Vipassana movement that started in Burma and is quite widespread in the US, usually referred to as the Insight Meditation schools.

 

You can find both religious and secular teachers in all branches of Buddhism. The Insight Meditation groups do tend to be quite secular. Those that refer to themselves as Theravadan probably tend to be more ritual/tradition oriented. You can find mantra practice is many of the different schools. 

 

I hope that helps.

Edited October 17, 2016 by steve

[Vajra Fist]

Thanks for your reply Steve. I guess my (admittedly badly worded) original question was whether the insight meditation practiced by theravada or the vipassana movement had a different emphasis or approach.

 

Does the insight meditation taught by Arjahn Chah represent the mainstream theravadan approach?

 

Aside from insight meditation are there other meditation practices from the theravadan system that aren't emphasised in the Goenkan vipassana movememt. I know of the 32 parts meditation, for one. But are there more?

[steve]

Thanks for your reply Steve. I guess my (admittedly badly worded) original question was whether the insight meditation practiced by theravada or the vipassana movement had a different emphasis or approach.

 

Does the insight meditation taught by Arjahn Chah represent the mainstream theravadan approach?

 

Aside from insight meditation are there other meditation practices from the theravadan system that aren't emphasised in the Goenkan vipassana movememt. I know of the 32 parts meditation, for one. But are there more?

 

I suspect that vipassana practice is similar, whether you follow a more traditional Theravadan teacher or a progressive Insight Meditation teacher. I'm sure there is individual variation. I can't answer your more specific questions as I don't follow that tradition although I do believe that Goenke's approach does not embrace Shamatha whereas most Thervadan schools will teach Shamatha prior to Vipassana.

 

PS - from my own experience, shamatha practice is extremely powerful and valuable, and I think it serves to lay a stable foundation for everything else, especially for those of us in the West with our complex and speed of light lives...

Edited October 17, 2016 by steve

[Vajra Fist]

Thanks Steve. So true, especially as a pallid commuter trying to support a family.

 

I have practiced mindfulness of breathing using the headspace app for some time, and I started to explore Budhhism seriously as a path about six months ago. I practice ten malas of the mani mantra in the morning but I became interested in theravada quite recently. It seems attractive in its straightforward simplicity.

 

Which tradition do you follow?

[steve]

Which tradition do you follow?

 

Yungdrung Bön 

[Mandrake]

Thanks for your reply Steve. I guess my (admittedly badly worded) original question was whether the insight meditation practiced by theravada or the vipassana movement had a different emphasis or approach.

 

Does the insight meditation taught by Arjahn Chah represent the mainstream theravadan approach?

 

Aside from insight meditation are there other meditation practices from the theravadan system that aren't emphasised in the Goenkan vipassana movememt. I know of the 32 parts meditation, for one. But are there more?

 

Vipassana comes in different styles, and it seems as if you've already understood that Goenka's variant isn't the only one. Ajahn Chah's is another one, but there are plenty of additional one's.

 

Most of the practices you can find are either focused on shamatha, vipassana or some kind of devotion. You may for example find that a particular shamatha object works much better for you than another, so there is room for some tinkering. And as Steve says, shamatha is powerful, and in basically all traditions is a prerequisite for vipassana to work as intended.

 

 

M

[Vajra Fist]

Great, good to know. Thanks!

[forestofemptiness]

Vipassana is a fairly broad term--- it is found in many Buddhist traditions. What it means can vary, but it is typically paired with the term shamatha. Roughly speaking, shamatha is concentration meditation and vipassana is insight meditation. In many Theravadan lineages, you start with shamatha, say focusing on the breath. Once your mind settles, you then switch to vipassana, which can involve looking at all parts of the body to see if they are impermanent or not. Or it may involve analyzing the body into smaller parts, elements, or even atoms. Or it may involve noting whatever arises. Or it may involve sweeping the body. 

 

Most schools Theravadan schools that I am familiar with will say that shamatha only calms the mind, but it is vipassana that leads to wisdom and can actually liberate you. It is often described as two wings of a bird. 

[Vajra Fist]

That's fascinating, thanks! I picked up a couple of books by Arjahn Chah. Do you have any other recommendation for books in the theravadan tradition?

Edited October 21, 2016 by Vajra Fist

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Hi VF.

 

If you'd like to learn more I'd advise you to firstly get a shamatha practice going. Here's a pretty good guide: http://www.wildmind.org/mindfulness With some shamatha under your belt it should be easier to make sense of everything else, and vipassana is more effective with a mind trained by shamatha. 

 

Also I'd suggest reading The Dhammapada. This translation is solid and the introduction is a pretty good intro to Buddhism and Theravada: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.intro.budd.html From there, read other articles and suttas on access to insight so you get a flavour of things. And of course ask Dao Bums if you're confused!  

 

When you've been practicing shamatha and learning for a while (Honestly, getting that foundation will help so much) start practicing vipassana. So on the cushion you'll start with shamatha to rev your mind up, then do vipassana, and off the cushion keep that vipassana running as well as you can.

 

You'll have some understanding of the theory by then, but to really learn what to do, why and what for, try Mastering The Core Teachings of the Buddha by Daniel Ingram. http://static.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/5055915f84aedaeee9181119/1347785055665/ MCTB is the vipassana book in my opinion, and although it leans towards the Mahasi Sayadaw 'noting' approach you can apply it to Goenka's scanning or any other approach to this practice.

 

Best of luck with your practice!

 

[Gerard]

Hi dear friend,

 

Theravada is one Buddhist tradition, whereas Vipassana is one of the two major meditation systems (the other being Samatha). The difference is that Vipassana you'll be watching EVERYTHING (thoughts, feelings, sensations as they arise from moment to moment) and in Samatha the goal is single-pointed concentration (various sub-techniques to attain full concentration are used but the most common is mindfulness of breathing). However, when one reaches an intermediate to advanced stage, both methods become somewhat blurred. I mean you'll be meditating deeply, engaged in higher states of consciouness where physical reality vanishes. Hence meditation will be meditation whether is Vipassana or Samatha.

 

Best of luck!

[Gerard]

Sorry, I missed the buddho question. It's is a technique developed by Ajahn Sao (please read the wiki entry because it contains vital information about mindfulness meditation).

 

It belongs to the Samatha system. But in any case, you can create your own mantra if you like: one-two, one-two, one-two...as long as nothing else is in your mind, this is the trick, not lettting your conditioned mind becoming engaged with its typical monkey behaviour, always worried thinking about the past and future; it's very vicious and highly distracting! You will be in charge instead of the other way round.

 

Edited November 2, 2016 by Gerard

[Vajra Fist]

Thanks for your advice, that makes it a lot clearer!