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Tibetan_Ice

Direct Introduction Dalai Lama

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Here is the book!

 

https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Meditation-Discovering-Innermost-Awareness-ebook/dp/B01C64RSG6/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=#nav-subnav

 

This quote from the book means quite a bit to me because a few years ago I experienced a phenomenon where something came out of my eyes that resembled gushing water, like a fire hydrant gushing horizontally in slow motion. It was during a walk in the forest, when I was "loving" a newly forming leaf in springtime.

 

I had been practicing shifting my attention every half second from leafy tree branch to the next, loving every scene, but not allowing the conceptual mind enough time to grasp before shifting to the next visual scene. I had spent about 1/2 hour doing that. Then, as I walked back to my vehicle, I stopped to admire a leaf bud and this clear luminescent water-like substance came out of my eyes and surged towards the leaf bud. It resembled a horizontal shaft of water, about 8 inches in diameter and about 6 feet long. The inside of the shaft was so bright and clear the it made the rest of the scene appear very dull. On one end of the shaft was the leaf bud and on the other end of the shaft was my eyes.

 

I stood there, stunned. The effect lasted for about 30 seconds.

 

Now, today, finally I read this:

 

 

It is very helpful in daily practice to identify the nature of the mind and concentrate on it. However, it is hard to catch hold of the mind because it is hidden beneath our own scattered thoughts. As a technique to identify the basic nature of the mind, first stop remembering what happened in the past, then stop thinking about what might happen in the future—let the mind flow of its own accord without the overlay of thought. Let the mind rest in its natural state and observe it for a while.

 

When, for instance, you hear a noise, between the time of hearing it and conceptualizing its source, you can sense a state of mind that is devoid of thought but not asleep, in which the object is a reflection of the mind’s luminosity and knowing. At such a point, the basic nature of the mind can be grasped. In the beginning, when you are not used to this practice, it is quite difficult, but in time the mind appears like clear water.

 

So yes, I can now say that I've realized the basic nature of mind.

I've seen it. It can be grasped.

 

Clear water.

 

Thank you Dalai Lama :)

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Hold it right there, mister! You need to confirm this realization with the proper dzogchen authorities.

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The second time it came out I was reading the book called "Experience and Philosophy".

https://www.amazon.com/Franklin-Merrell-Wolffs-Experience-Philosophy-Transformation/dp/0791419649

 

I was sitting on a park bench reading. I read a sentence which said that "it" is so close to you that the moment you start to look for "it" you already passed it. So I sat up straight and receded back into myself. The clear water appeared again but this time it was not a shaft projecting outwards. It was much larger and it encompassed the whole park.

 

The silence was glorious. I felt like I was everything, made of pure love and bliss. The strange thing is that there were two eyes looking back at me from the luminous watery envelopment. Like I was looking into a "face". I wonder if that is what they mean by the "face" of rigpa.?

 

Then, my mind and thoughts fought their way back and it disappeared. Later, as I was walking back to the vehicle, it came out again. But try as I might it did not stay.

 

Then, the next day, in the morning, I bent over while taking a shower and it came back! Glorious! The silence was so peaceful. The mind and all its thoughts resembled a little school of rainbow fish swimming in a school up above. Much love, bliss and the feeling that i was everything.

 

It is quite the experience. I wish everyone here could experience that.

 

:)

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You dont help anybody by sharing your private experiences in public.

In fact i would say that nobody is interested.

This may be true for a couple of reasons.

First , those familiar and experienced in dzogchen would think that this is just delusion, the play of mind.

Just remember that the deepest most amazing experience of emptiness is just a temporary experience and has nothing to do with the real nature that is beyond the experiential domain of the relative mind.As a related point the real nature, the primordial state does not arise as something new and as a consequence does not pass away because the nature is permanent which means it is always here.

Second this is only temporary therefore of no import.

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I may have been a little harsh on you earlier but the general idea is that the experiences we have are private. We risk otherwise in building an image of someone who has extraordinary experiences and that only strengthens our ego.

If we remember that any experience no matter how extraordinary, whether dual or non dual, is a temporary manifestation of the energy of primordial state , then that will tone down somewhat the infatuation and excitement with the experiences of relative mind.

From the standpoint of primordial state there is no hierarchical classification of experiences:looking at a door is equal to having an experience of the universe turning into a pile of diamonds.So when we are at this level of understanding there is nothing that is not the the clear light manifestation of our primordial state.To single out some experience as being extraordinary is to divide the undivided .As Namkhai Norbu told me once, when we are in our real nature everything is the domain of samanthabadra  and nothing in the entire universe is more important than this.

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Already,

 

I was going to just delete your post because it is off topic and from previous posts in other topics I can tell you have a bad attitude and you remind me of another ex-member who chose an elitist attitude to most posts.

 

However, I will address your comments. But I might just delete your post(s) anyway because you reek of troll.

 

You dont help anybody by sharing your private experiences in public.

In fact i would say that nobody is interested.

 

First off, why is it that other people get to write about their experiences, sell books on the net about their experiences (like Tenzin Wangyal, Tolle, Dudjom Lingpa, Patrul Rinpoche, etc) yet for some specific reason you single me out? Are you jealous that I am succeeding and that you are not?

 

Sharing my experiences helps not only me, but helps others identify the clear light, the natural state, primordial consciousness. It is a great benefit to have someone whom can explain some methods of realizing the clear water, who has an understanding of the kind of experience that results. My purpose is to help people, unlike your caustic remarks and false accusations.

 

If you don't have the same level of realization that I have then you have no proper understanding and not enough bodhicitta to treat the topic with the respect. You haven't practiced for 44 years and you haven't spent the last few years trying to put some meaning into the clear water experiences.

 

I would think that any true seeker would be very interested in what I am saying, especially others whom have had similar realizations. And if they are not interested, then they are always free to ignore the thread.

 

This may be true for a couple of reasons.

First , those familiar and experienced in dzogchen would think that this is just delusion, the play of mind.

Just remember that the deepest most amazing experience of emptiness is just a temporary experience and has nothing to do with the real nature that is beyond the experiential domain of the relative mind. As a related point the real nature, the primordial state does not arise as something new and as a consequence does not pass away because the nature is permanent which means it is always here.

Second this is only temporary therefore of no import.

May be true?

 

Those experienced in Dzogchen would have had exactly the same experience because it is the experience of entering the natural state. It is the single most important aspect of Dzogchen. Without it you have nothing.

 

Garab Dorge's three statements, obtain direct introduction, gain confidence in the view then maintain it, attest to that. If you think that the experience of entering the natural state, experiencing primordial awareness is not important, then you've closed the door to the practice and have nowhere to go.

 

Further, you say that primordial state does not arise as something new and does not pass away. You have poor understanding. The experience of the primordial state DOES arise as something new to the relative mind for beginners and anyone whom has not had the experience before. Yes, the primordial state is permanent and always there but it is never recognized unless someone points it out to you or initiates you, or you recognize it through practices.

 

The idea that the primordial state arises and then goes away is the wrong way to look at it because it is not the primordial state that arises and disappears, it is the relative mind with all its thoughts, feelings and sensations that disappears (revealing the primordial state) and then arises again covering up the primordial state. Further, Dzogchen teachings say that this "ignorance", the inability to recognize the primordial state, is based on the false sense of identity of self, the "I" thought. First the "I" arises and covers up the primordial state. When the "I" disappears the primordial state is revealed.

 

Your last statement that this is only temporary and therefore of no import is nihilistic. If you want to shut the door and throw away the key, that is up to you. If you can't distinguish between entering the primordial state and some other thing you misunderstand to be just another experience, then that tells me you failed in your direct introduction.

 

I may have been a little harsh on you earlier but the general idea is that the experiences we have are private. We risk otherwise in building an image of someone who has extraordinary experiences and that only strengthens our ego.

If we remember that any experience no matter how extraordinary, whether dual or non dual, is a temporary manifestation of the energy of primordial state , then that will tone down somewhat the infatuation and excitement with the experiences of relative mind.

From the standpoint of primordial state there is no hierarchical classification of experiences:looking at a door is equal to having an experience of the universe turning into a pile of diamonds.So when we are at this level of understanding there is nothing that is not the the clear light manifestation of our primordial state.To single out some experience as being extraordinary is to divide the undivided .As Namkhai Norbu told me once, when we are in our real nature everything is the domain of samanthabadra and nothing in the entire universe is more important than this.

My Experiences are not private. I share them openly so that others may learn and assess their own level of understanding and progress. Please don't impose your value judgements on others or hand down value judgements passed on by those who wish to maintain secrecy as a way to protect their inadequacies. When someone gives "direct introduction" to thousands of people over the Internet and then tells you to keep your experience private it is because, except for maybe one or two people, it did not work.

 

So, quit calling my experiences some kind of ego threatening circus show and recognize it for what it is. If you failed at direct introduction and have to rely on "level of understanding" or what someone else told you, I would suggest practicing more and achieving a higher "level of experience".

 

Last remark. Telling someone it is all "empty" does not help most people. They have to realize it for themselves. Mixing high level statements with relative concepts like you are doing shows a lack of understanding of the two truths, and demonstrates that you do not take the time and effort to keep them separate. The next thing you'll be telling us is that there is nothing to do, no practice needed...

 

:)

Edited by Tibetan_Ice
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