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2016 us election

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^^^

Yes, that's the idea. It is identity politics at its worst.

 

An excerpt from a speech Teddy Roosevelt gave in 1915:

 

HYPHENATED AMERICANS

 

What is true of creed is no less true of nationality. There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

 

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

 

I appeal to history. Among the generals of Washington in the Revolutionary War were Greene, Putnam, and Lee, who were of English descent; Wayne and Sullivan, who were of Irish descent; Marion, who was of French descent; Schuyler, who was of Dutch descent, and Muhlenberg and Herkimer, who were of German descent. But they were all of them Americans and nothing else, just as much as Washington. Carroll of Carrollton was a Catholic; Hancock a Protestant; Jefferson was heterodox from the standpoint of any orthodox creed; but these and all the other signers of the Declaration of Independence stood on an equality of duty and right and liberty, as Americans an.d nothing else.

 

So it was in the Civil War. Farragut`s father was born in Spain and Sheridan`s father in Ireland; Sherman and Thomas were of English and Custer of German descent; and Grant came of a long line of American ancestors whose original home had been Scotland. But the Admiral was not a Spanish-American; and the Generals were not Scotch-Americans or Irish-Americans or English-Americans or German-Americans. They were all Americans and nothing else. This was just as true of Lee and of Stonewall Jackson and of Beauregard.

 

When in 1909 our battlefleet returned from its voyage around the world, Admirals Wainwright and Schroeder represented the best traditions and the most effective action in our navy; one was of old American blood and of English descent.; the other was the son of German immigrants. But one was not a native-American and the other a German-American. Each was an American pure and simple. Each bore allegiance only to the flag of the United States. Each would have been incapable of considering the interests of Germany or of England or of any other country except the United States.

 

To take charge of the most important work under my administration, the building of the Panama Canal, I chose General Goethals. Both of his parents were born in Holland. But he was just plain United States. He wasn`t a Dutch-American; if he had been I wouldn`t have appointed him. So it was with such men, among those who served under me, as Admiral Osterhaus and General Barry. The father of one was born in Germany, the father of the other in Ireland. But they were both Americans, pure and simple, and first-rate fighting men in addition.

 

In my Cabinet at the time there were men of English and French, German, Irish, and Dutch blood, men born on this side and men born in Germany and Scotland; but they were all Americans and nothing else; and every one of them was incapable of thinking of himself or of his fellow-countrymen, excepting in terms of American citizenship. If any one of them had anything in the nature of a dual or divided allegiance in his soul, he never would have been appointed to serve under me, and he would have been instantly removed when the discovery was made. There wasn`t one of them who was capable of desiring that the policy of the United States should be shaped with reference to the interests of any foreign country or with consideration for anything, outside of the general welfare of humanity, save the honor and interest of the United States, and each was incapable of making any discrimination whatsoever .among the citizens of the country he served, of our common country, save discrimination based on conduct and on conduct alone.

 

For an American citizen to vote as a German-American, an Irish- American, or an English-American, is to be a traitor to American institutions; and those hyphenated Americans who terrorize American politicians by threats of the foreign vote are engaged in treason to the American Republic.

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My best friend's been watching the news all day. He says it's "blatant social engineering" and "despicable" the effort the media like CNN is making to enforce hysteria and protest and racial or gender divide. I had to quit watching clips on youtube of media because it was boggling my mind.  RC

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yeah, well,, every cycle folks try to paint themselves into a rosy picture. Unless its the first election youve seen.. you consider this stuff as being useless both before and after the election. It has no informative value. Just let it ride. The preponderance of votes, isnt informed, and so equates to a coin toss, The weather affects voting patterns ,the appeal or scareiness value of a single tv ad can swing the tide. It proves nothing to have guessed incorrectly or correctly. Even if an individual knew every fact about every candidate, they couldnt know precisely how the opinions of the voters themselves ,would tilt. This is why true experts end up wrong around as often as idiots could wind up correct.

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What makes this election a wake up call is not Trumps win alone, but the overall bias of all the elections simultaneously ,all the way down to local level. Thats important to notice, Though Trump as an outsider did say some things which can be taken very badly, the rejection was of the DNC platform in general. That! is what the polsters werent seeing.Trump surfed in as the champion of the electorate rejecting Both of the status quo parties,,and thats why both realized they need to reconfigure. He was accepted as an agent of change because of his background and hard words ,as well as the betrayal by his own party.

At many points , Hillary could have prevented the upset in her own bid simply by abiding by more ethical behavior, without Trump as champion, down the ticket, its possible the rebuke may not have coalesced. So she pretty much submarined the whole party which was complicit... because they didnt reject her as candidte on their own.

Edited by Stosh
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I think, regarding the below article/info, that one cannot address this directly as some past hard-right politicians have tried to do. That is only attacking a symptom, anyway. The best approach to me would seem like, focusing on everything you can about improving the economy and jobs situation. Hopefully a lot of the issue would go away on its own, and then if people could make a living that could compete with their local economy, it would be different if someone talked about reducing payouts or increasing the requirements to get them. Right now the situation to me is not just about greed it's about being forced into that situation. If you work full time and still qualify for food stamps and live at a really low level, I see that as an economy problem. (And no, I do not believe the solution is expecting everybody to go take years of their life and incur massive debt trying to get a degree, that whole racket is part of the system that is the problem.)

 

 

A 2013 article:

[A] total of 108,592,000 people were on some sort of means-tested government benefits program in the fourth quarter of 2011, yet only 101,716,000 people were employed full-time for the entire year. A individual counted as a beneficiary of a means-tested program if they resided in a household where someone received benefits.

Means-tested benefits programs are the second-largest category of government spending. The government spends more on these programs than public education and defense spending.

From a Heritage Foundation report: The 69 means-tested programs operated by the federal government provide a wide variety of benefits. They include: 12 programs providing food aid; 10 housing assistance programs; 10 programs funding social services; 9 educational assistance programs; 8 programs providing cash assistance; 8 vocational training programs; 7 medical assistance programs; 3 energy and utility assistance programs; and, 2 child care and child development programs.

Programs such as Social Security, unemployment insurance, workers compensation, and veterans benefits ... are not included in the 108,592,000 figure.

Clearly, this is a huge problem. A country cannot survive if its citizens are not willing or able to work. In 35 states welfare pays better than an actual job. This is what we call an "incentive"--and the U.S. is incentivizing people to not work. Why would a person actually get a job if they could be paid more to stay home?

In Pennsylvania, a single women with children working a job that pays $29,000 a year actually receives $57,345 in total income when benefits are factored in. Conversely, if the woman were to work a job that paid $69,000 a year, her net pay after taxes is only $57,045. If the woman were to make more than her $29,000 salary, she would miss out in nearly $30,000 in government benefits. ... This is referred to as the "welfare cliff." There is no incentive ... [to] stop receiving welfare.

This is a major problem with how means-tested benefits are distributed in the United States, yet nobody is actually doing anything about it. The amount of people on SNAP (food stamps) has nearly doubled since 2006, despite the economic recovery. This is not good. Disability claims are also at record highs. Even 60 Minutes thought those numbers were suspicious and did an investigation about it. The system is being gamed.

If American welfare recipients were counted as a country, they would be the 12th largest in the world.
 

 

I see this as an example of the economy being a massive issue and getting worse with every round of "the system" in the white house. I think economics are a big part of why people were willing to overlook DJT being an obnoxious cretin and vote for his stated policy plans anyway. Because it seems like there is no way out and it's getting worse all the time, so it seems like something has to be done.

 

RC

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If Trump is going to give Christie a role in his cabinet, I hope he really checks out on ethics , if so, then fine, if not, it could bring Trump down too.

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With so much animosity floating around, reasonable people like yourself , could refrain from getting sucked in to inflammatory name calling so The fixes you want can come easier.

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What makes this election a wake up call is not Trumps win alone, but the overall bias of all the elections simultaneously ,all the way down to local level. Thats important to notice, Though Trump as an outsider did say some things which can be taken very badly, the rejection was of the DNC platform in general. That! is what the polsters werent seeing.Trump surfed in as the champion of the electorate rejecting Both of the status quo parties,,and thats why both realized they need to reconfigure. He was accepted as an agent of change because of his background and hard words ,as well as the betrayal by his own party.

At many points , Hillary could have prevented the upset in her own bid simply by abiding by more ethical behavior, without Trump as champion, down the ticket, its possible the rebuke may not have coalesced. So she pretty much submarined the whole party which was complicit... because they didnt reject her as candidte on their own.

 

The tell-tale for me is that as the democrats accused Trump and republicans of inciting violence... in the end the democrats took to the streets and schools with protest and violence.   Sometimes what we criticize in another is our own deep, dark issue.

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With so much animosity floating around, reasonable people like yourself , could refrain from getting sucked in to inflammatory name calling so The fixes you want can come easier.

 

~~~ ADMIN COMMENT ~~~

 

There has been a rather negative under-current along with the election cycle and Trump's win seemed to dump more gas into the fire on some level.

 

The staff is discussing these recent threads and attitudes that are not just towards the issues but towards each other in a way we don't really want to see.    I've wanted to let things ride out to a degree; let folks see if they can flow back to some stable and respectful position.  One thing TDBs is good at is calling each other out; like a family who keeps itself in check.   I think to some degree that has worked but to a larger degree it has not.   So likely we'll be issuing some staff comments on this.

 

Thanks for your post :)

 

Locking this for now

 

~~~~~~~~~

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