zerostao

2016 us election

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There was a case just down the road from here in the 2012 election -- an electronic voting machine which would allow you to make your selections but would then change one of them. It was reported by several people and then the machine was removed and replaced, ostensibly to be sent away for inspection by the vendor. It was covered by the local news at the time and then never mentioned again. No idea what happened to those votes.

I believe that, but I've heard about it on both sides.  Just as other shenanigans were reported on both sides and let us not discount machines that are just plain malfunctioning.  In the end  I think such incidents are statistically minor compared to the whole electorate vote.  The US is pretty evenly divided between dems and repubs, with all the baggage and cognitive dissonance that brings. 

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electoral fraud and voter fraud arent quite the same thing

 

but that's ok, good thing the news reports everything truthfully, objectively, honestly, and doesnt withhold any information or produce knowingly misleading or outright false stories :lol:

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I think its naive to think electoral and voter fraud are exclusive to any one party. 

 

I think its pointless to generalize about the entirety of media.  There is liberal and conservative, right and left.  Lots of bias's, especially now that its split into so many different channels and that straight reporting doesn't grab the eyes of sensationalism.

 

I'll tell you something though, I'd take 'normal' media, right or left, reporting over the conspiracy sites any day.  I don't care to read month after month about the coming economic and social collapse that they preach year after year to there faithful. 

Edited by thelerner

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I think it is naive to think there's a significant distinction between the DNC and RNC. ;) Ever read Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle?

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the RNC was not caught red handed rigging the primaries is one distinction.

they did not push jebster thru, he got lost in the shuffle of too many primary candidates imo

altho many republicans were probably uncomfortable with the bush baggage

on the democrat side they didnt seem to care how much baggage clinton has

i do agree with you on the rest of it, both parties are complicit with the oligarchy replacing the former democracy/republic

vonnegut is always a good read.

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I think its naive to think electoral and voter fraud are exclusive to any one party. 

 

I think its pointless to generalize about the entirety of media.  There is liberal and conservative, right and left.  Lots of bias's, especially now that its split into so many different channels and that straight reporting doesn't grab the eyes of sensationalism.

 

I'll tell you something though, I'd take 'normal' media, right or left, reporting over the conspiracy sites any day.  I don't care to read month after month about the coming economic and social collapse that they preach year after year to there faithful. 

The media has a definite left-leaning bias.  There is a lot of evidence that even the owner of Fox news, Rupert Murdoch, the only "right wing" TV news station is actually a closet liberal.  Even most popular online news websites, Huffington Post, Washington Post, NY Times, Salon, Gawker, etc. have a left bias.  A lot of the more popular right wing websites - Drudge Report, Breitbart, InfoWars, are often labeled "fringe" whereas liberals love to claim rationality.

 

Bias isn't necessarily bad, we all have it.  Some people and websites are more open about their point of view than others.  I generally trust people more when they state their perspectives up front, rather than trying to hide behind the false notion that they are "objective."

 

A good illustration of this is the Conservative Wikipedia is called "Conservopedia."  When I looked for the Liberal Wikipedia, I found one called "RationalWiki."  (Try searching Republicans vs. Democrats in RationalWiki if you don't believe me).

 

Alternative media, which you naively label "conspiracy sites," have a whole spectrum of accuracy and objectivity.  There are really ridiculous theories that have very little backing and then theories that, while not necessarily asserting any truth, seem to open up many questions to the official narrative.  I find the best approach is to seek out different perspectives and try to find that truth in that way.  After a while, I start to find what journalists and websites are more reliable than others.  Even then, I take it in with a grain of salt.

Edited by futuredaze
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MSM is broadly collectivist with some at the slightly more conservative edge, but essentially they all support the establishment narrative. I've never heard any attack on the fed/bank of England/Central banks, or to take commerce/education/health/transport out of state hands and into the real private sector-not through the state franchises. Very few back serious cuts in the size and power of the state, they make small overtures and occasional opinion pieces by individual columnists reflect a less mainstream viewpoint.

 

The MSM are part of the establishment and many editors were educated at the very same elite schools attended by politicians, bankers, think tank wonks, academics, civil servants and educators. Those schools taught Keynesian economics and soft Marxism so it isn't suprising that this turns out to be the predominate philosophy that pervades society. If they had their way they would close down all sites which turn out alternative news and opinion.

 

MSM are in the business of selling entertainment to a dumbed down public through the control of the corporate/political system derived from an education steeped in the philosophy of pragmatic collectivism. There is little to no investigative reporting and the reporters are excluded from managed 'scoops' if they refuse to tow the line. They receive carefully managed and worded press releases to which they add the flavour their audience identifies with.

 

Our own BBC isn't far off a direct propaganda wing of the state spouting the tribalism which is ever growing. Every expansion of state power is blessed and ordained by the high priests of media. Every bid for individual freedom or capitalism criticised, excoriated and spun to paint the perpetrators as racist bigots, patriarchs and unenlightened Nazi thugs.

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Good point, it is more about establishment than left-right paradigm.  Generally though, it seems the establishment is in favor of bigger government, which I associate with as more of a leftist idea.

Edited by futuredaze
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the amusing thing is, "conspiracy" sites generally have predicted market crashes based on examinations of market fundamentals.

 

but when the "market's fundamentals" arent market fundamentals, but a collection of a few hands with their hands on legalized counterfeiting houses pulling some strings...

 

...so its quite silly to assert that markets are based on "traditional market fundamentals" and take the piss on theories which rely on traditional market fundamentals.

 

But then again, when a certain litmus test for what reality is cant even be passed, the rest of the conversation winds up being mere noise.

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Good point, it is more about establishment than left-right paradigm.  Generally though, it seems the establishment is in favor of bigger government, which I associate with as more of a leftist idea.

It's better to think of it as statism associated with collectivism. Left and right are two sides of the same coin, the left promises utopia for the workers and the right has the aim of nationalism, duty and sacrifice as the reward. One conducts war inside its borders, the other carries conflict to other countries. One has a fully nationalised means of production, the other has a nominal private ownership, but dictated by the state. Pretty easy to spot that the USA has a left wing social programme coupled with nationalist expansionism. The means of production are privately owned and co-opted by the state which is a right wing form of collectivism.

 

In the end it is a priviliged group of elite selling a narrative of a welfare utopia to the people which will be manufactured by a Government regulated private industry. The aim is to produce a dumbed down population that can do the work, but won't question the reality. Instead they will be gradually deprived of their rights in return for promises of milk and honey on the one hand, but protection from a constant barrage of scary enemies on the other. It's a managed plantation of disparate tribalism in which each clamours for the states benevolence and protection whilst the state ensures that the balance of hatred, mistrust and attendant violence remain in place.

 

Each part of the elite, from corporate heads, politicians, media owners, bankers, universities, schools and academics has its interest in ensuring the people will gladly give up their rights and property for a little bit more protection, or the promise of some money.

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the amusing thing is, "conspiracy" sites generally have predicted market crashes based on examinations of market fundamentals.

 

but when the "market's fundamentals" arent market fundamentals, but a collection of a few hands with their hands on legalized counterfeiting houses pulling some strings...

 

...so its quite silly to assert that markets are based on "traditional market fundamentals" and take the piss on theories which rely on traditional market fundamentals.

 

But then again, when a certain litmus test for what reality is cant even be passed, the rest of the conversation winds up being mere noise.

There are no markets anymore, it's just one big centralised economic system. The market waits to here what grandma Yellen will say and what news might make her say it. It reminds me of the Roman emperors in the coliseum who watch the gladiators fight and use their thumbs to signal death, or a stay of execution.

 

There can be no production or capital spending when the incentives are all to buy back shares and purchase bubble assets. Eventually this game will end when the factories grind to a halt due to lack of spending, or customers. The old adage, 'you can't eat money' is likely to become very real, very fast.

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The election reminds me a little of one of the 1970's racing cartoons.   Trump won his primary but did so through some of the most negative campaigning and name calling and outlandish tactics like suggesting he'd heard a candidates father might be involved in the Kennedy assassination all the while boasting how amazing and great he is.  Very cartoonish.

 

On the other hand Hillary is a very weak candidate.  Unpopular, not trust worthy, using questionable judgement and riding on the coat tail of a president who's signature accomplishment Affordable Care Act is falling apart.  She's  vulnerable and likely be beaten by a Republican who is respected and sticks to the facts.  But Republicans don't have such a person, they have Trump, the Dick Dastardly of politics.  Throwing around elaborate ever changing plans and conspiracy theories, when keeping it simple would work.

 

Instead she's facing Trump who doesn't want to beat her but wants her arrested.  His rallies often have long chanting Lock her up.  Officials in his election calling for her death!?   Winning isn't enough, she's an enemy and enemies must be destroyed.   These impulses make him more cartoonish then presidential and they're costing him the election. 

 

If he loses and he probably will, fault the Republicans who voted for him in the primaries. 

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the amusing thing is, "conspiracy" sites generally have predicted market crashes based on examinations of market fundamentals.

 

When you call for a market crash every few months of course you'll be right every few years.  Its worthless  because they call for market crashes and the social upheaval, riots, black helicopters coming for us, so often. 

Edited by thelerner

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When you call for a market crash every few months of course you'll be right every few years. Its worthless because they call for market crashes and the social upheaval, riots, black helicopters coming for us, so often.

 

They do predict market crashes, and, like every other prediction, the time frame and exact circumstances are not an exact science. However, that does not mean that economics isn't a science, that it has rules and laws which, though not time bound, are never the less accurate.

 

A crash is coming and that is inevitable, but more relevant than that is the standard of living of the guy in the street charted against a time defined history. Despite what little remains of the engine of capitalism still driving standards of living forward, the pace has slowed dramatically. It has been slowing since 1900, it slowed further right up to 1971 when Nixon finally dumped the only thing in the way of holding state spending to account- the Bretton woods gold standard (not a real gold standard, but at least it provided some protection against the rapid increase of state and its attendant cronyism).

 

The crashes have been growing is size and rapidity since the state first fiddled with the market monetary system and caused the 1930s crash. Since then there have been multiple crashes which have been smoothed out by a combination of monetary expansion and Government cut backs. In recent years the cutbacks have become smaller and the money printing larger. There is an end game to every Ponzi system, but it's dependent very much on market confidence in the currency.

 

As long as figures are massaged, living standards appear to be rising and inflation of ordinary goods is reasonable and the central banks are seen to be 'in control' then no alarms go off. 2009 was the first event that signalled the possibility of a total currency collapse, but the fed still has some, as they call it, 'dry powder'. However, with US interest rates at 0.25% and other currencies now at minus percentages, it should be clear that they are rapidly running out of that powder. In Germany and Japan there is a surge in home safes as people take their money out of banks. Instead of being forced to spend it as the Ponzi central banks would like, they are opting to save it. This is, in effect the beginnings of a slow motion bank run-the very thing the Central banks were supposed to prevent by creating 'stability'. Public/ private debt is rising quickly and there has been no sign that Governments have been keen to try and hold/ reverse it. There is very little cap ex spending, or capital accumulation for real production, the entire weight of printed money has gone into financialisation, whilst the failures and losses have been shoved onto future tax payers.

 

Now, we cannot know when it will blow, but we can forecast that it won't be ten years, but it might be tommorrow, next month, or two years time. The smoke is already rising and alarms are going off in the alternate media-where naive blindness is not entertained as it is by the MSM. Anyone can choose to ignore the reality, they may not be able to do anything about it, but they should know that it is coming and fairly soon if we look at the options left on the table. When interest rates were at 6%, when debts were not as high, then the fuse was relatively long, but at the zero bound and now below it, the fuse is as close to the bomb as it can be.

 

Even though I use this metaphor, it's likely the wrong one. It's better to think we are already drowning and the Fed is telling us we will be out of the water soon. It's not that an event will occur, but that it is in the process of occurring. A certain amount of promises, ropes that snap and life buoys that sink do bring a modicum of hope. The drowning man keeps kicking and lunging to the surface, but it can only last so long. Slow drowning isn't yet death, it's very slow death. Suddenly all hope is lost, the man tires and nature takes its course.

Edited by Karl

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whether the crash happens just before or just after the election makes a difference.

 

Among registered voters, the two candidates have near-identical unfavorable ratings: 59 percent for Clinton vs. 60 percent for Trump.

Clinton’s rise in unpopularity follows renewed attention on her use of a private email server and alleged conflicts of interest over her connections to the Clinton Foundation fundraising while she served as secretary of state. This metric rose among some of her core support groups, including women, post-graduates, Hispanics and liberals.

https://gma.yahoo.com/poll-clinton-unpopularity-high-par-trump-112105093--abc-news-topstories.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/08/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-primary-lessons-general-election

 

and assange has promised a clinton data dump just before the election to insure max effect

http://www.inquisitr.com/3455713/wikileaks-october-surprise-new-hillary-clinton-email-dump-coming-before-general-election-assange-confirms/

 

from YahNe Ndgo 

When the only value you can offer is being better than Trump, you have very little value indeed. The people are beginning to realize this, increasing the chance of the feared Trump presidency, which FOR ME is equal to the feared Clinton presidency. We should all vote as if there are only two parties: Libertarian and Green. #choosenoevil

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/31/a-record-number-of-americans-now-dislike-hillary-clinton/

edit>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harry-kresky/bernie-george-and-me_b_11776210.html

 

 I felt like an outsider. Somehow, for all the talk of diversity and inclusion, for all the identities not so subtly arrayed, my identity was not welcome.

I’m an independent, but so are 43% of the American people.

Edited by zerostao
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The election reminds me a little of one of the 1970's racing cartoons.   Trump won his primary but did so through some of the most negative campaigning and name calling and outlandish tactics like suggesting he'd heard a candidates father might be involved in the Kennedy assassination all the while boasting how amazing and great he is.  Very cartoonish.

 

On the other hand Hillary is a very weak candidate.  Unpopular, not trust worthy, using questionable judgement and riding on the coat tail of a president who's signature accomplishment Affordable Care Act is falling apart.  She's  vulnerable and likely be beaten by a Republican who is respected and sticks to the facts.  But Republicans don't have such a person, they have Trump, the Dick Dastardly of politics.  Throwing around elaborate ever changing plans and conspiracy theories, when keeping it simple would work.

 

Instead she's facing Trump who doesn't want to beat her but wants her arrested.  His rallies often have long chanting Lock her up.  Officials in his election calling for her death!?   Winning isn't enough, she's an enemy and enemies must be destroyed.   These impulses make him more cartoonish then presidential and they're costing him the election. 

 

If he loses and he probably will, fault the Republicans who voted for him in the primaries. 

pointing out that the establishment has done everything in its power to rig elections?  that's negative?  lol...hil riding obama's coattails?  what alternate reality are you reading news from?  hil has been in a quest for power for a long time and has one thing over lady macbeth, the actual potential to get in the top position. 

 

she's a globalist lackey and has been compensated quite well for it - which includes being kept out of prison for all of the felonies tied to her and her pretend husband.

 

oh, if only there was a proper establishment certified republican to go  truly challenge hilary!?!  lmao...yes please, let's have goldman sachs ensure its candidates on both sides of the voting block once again!

 

you dont seem to get that its all about the money, all about enforcing the banking fraud and keeping the perpetrators insulated from losing their license to counterfeit money.

 

 

When you call for a market crash every few months of course you'll be right every few years.  Its worthless  because they call for market crashes and the social upheaval, riots, black helicopters coming for us, so often. 

and you dont even see the pieces moving in to place, because the MSM has instructed you to ignore them and point fingers at those crazies who notice such things.

 

to lump all conspiracy theories together is a bit silly - which are you referring to, the conspiracy theory that the gold/silver market is rigged?  oh wait that one's confirmed as fact.   that central banks are counterfeiting money?  doh, fact.  that the purchasing of closeness to the market has made the difference in letting sub millisecond high frequency trading algorithms push trades all over in whatever direction they're programmed to push them - up to a certain limit, of course, because its all about being able to move the market in a desired direction.  proven fact already...

 

you dont seem to understand the ways in which markets have been used to steal the ability to manage currency, how it is all a big strip mining operation.  or maybe you think the way the economy is, is some accident?  or is it a logical outcome of manipulation and making huge bets, saddling others with whatever losses occur?

 

what is the power to do these things essentially?

 

what is the power to "own" the "money" that everyone uses?  you realize dollars arent money, right?  you realize its been devalued away to next to nothing, right?  you realize that every time they create more, we pay interest on it, right?

 

to what lengths would those go to, who have achieved this setup - to protect it?

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They don't need much to protect their system of Neo feudalism. That's only necessary if there are rational, logical people that can think critically. You can sell any old tat to an idiot that has convinced themselves there is no reality, that everything quivers in a quantum continuum and survival is an over rated myth.

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I disagree - as algore said, the internet is a problem for "running a government" that has been bought out and does things directly against the interests of its people.

 

it lets people see everything from the zapruder film having been edited to take out the car having stopped,  to the disappearance of steel right in front of everyone's eyes, its exposed a lifetime of clinton's corruption, its exposed the caustic system of theft that is our monetary system, and many other things that people used to not be able to see.  corporations arent taking on debt with which to buy back their own shares in an effort to goose p/e ratios just so they can show some profitability for nothing - they have to perform creative accounting gimmicks with "free debt" in order to make themselves appear profitable (and then  baked into the cake are friends of the board having the golden parachute in case their accounting gimmicks dont work.)    what's that do to all the smaller entities?   buries them in misinformation....and as importantly, debt.

 

people are only going to take this crap for so long - provided they have enough information to decide correctly for themselves - which is why we find ourselves in the middle of an information war, the media doing anything and everything they can to push the term that the cia had to coin to try and keep people from looking into why jfk was murdered.

Edited by joeblast

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Funny I just got a mailer from my senator asking what could we do to eliminate the herion problem

 

duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh   take it out at its source, get the fk out of afghanistan, and allow them to eliminate the poppy crop.  AGAIN.

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edit>>>

"we'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false"

former head of the cia william casey

fact check?

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2015/01/15/did-cia-director-william-casey-really-say-well-know-our-disinformation-program-is-complete-when-everything-the-american-public-believes-is-false/

 

what i removed was a response to the "outlandish suggestion" trump made about another candidate's father,

Edited by zerostao
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edit>>>

"we'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false"

former head of the cia william casey

fact check?

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2015/01/15/did-cia-director-william-casey-really-say-well-know-our-disinformation-program-is-complete-when-everything-the-american-public-believes-is-false/

Liked it even better before the edit... ;)
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