Is space nothingness?

[niveQ]

Is space, the emptiness between matter (planets, comets, stars, etc) truly nothingness?

 

If it is something that can contain things, is it truly nothingness (not something)?

 

If it can be curved, is it truly nothingness?

 

Can something be something and still be nothingness? Is nothingness something?

[Marblehead]

"Empty space" is not empty.  There are lots of things going on that only a few can see a small part of.  For example, Dark Matter and Dark Energy.  That's 96 percent of what science believes what the contents of the universe is.

 

Really, if we want (Absolute) Nothingness we would have to go beyond the absolute outer boundary of the universe.  We can't do that though because the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light and we cannot travel that fast.

 

You and I will never experience (Absolute) Nothingness.

 

Buddhism will tell us a different story, but that's okay.

[dust]

It seems like you are looking at things as 'something vs nothing'. The way I understand things, it's not like that.

 

'Something' and 'nothing' are different ways of describing the same 'stuff'.

 

Iron is a thick, heavy, solid 'thing'. But as you will no doubt have been told by someone along the way, atoms are something like 99.9999% so-called 'empty space', and iron is no different than hydrogen in this respect. The most 'solid' stuff is still mostly 'nothing'.

 

And the 'something' (hadrons > quarks > ? > ?) that makes up the not-nothing of an atom is still, when we get right down to it, only made up of whatever it's made up of. We can probably say that the idea that it is "made of something" is entirely meaningless; one can't keep going forever, asking every time "But what's that made of?" Then.. there is no 'fundamental' stuff, is there?

 

Probably best not to think about it too hard.

[niveQ]

My way of thinkng is actually more along the lines of what you describe. I am used to getting retorts that tell me that we are something that came from nothing/something in floating in nothing.

 

I simply cannot comprehend nothingness.

[dust]

Something great gave way to all form;

Born before Heaven and Earth,

Morphing and hazy, singular and limitless,

It is the mother of all things;

...

Man is of the Earth,

The Earth is of the Heavens,

The Heavens are of the Way,

The Way is of itself

 

 

 

I don't put as much stock in Laozi as I used to, but the brother did have some excellent insights.

 

There are many things I can't even begin to comprehend. Nothingness has always been one of them. Eternity, too. When I was a child I would often lie awake at night trying to understand the concept "forever", and invariably need my mum to comfort me when a deep, seemingly inexplicable terror struck me.

 

Not being able to comprehend a concept like "nothingness" probably stems from the fact that it is a meaningless idea. The question "What is nothing?" has no meaning, no value. It's like asking "Where is 5?" or "Why is yellow?" The problem is created through language, and no amount of extra language can 'solve' it.

 

What I get from Laozi is that 'the Way' cannot be explained -- it just is. So accept it, and go with it. You don't need to comprehend it.

Edited June 6, 2015 by dustybeijing

[Bearded Dragon]

I simply cannot comprehend nothingness.

 

Nobody can. It's not in the realm of the thinking mind because as soon as you think about it it becomes something. Spiritual people put too much emphasis on this magical nothingness as a thing. The magic is in it's function, not it's comprehension. The function is just acting according to how things are, without adding ideas/bias/etc.

[vonkrankenhaus]

http://www.panspermia.org/astronmy.htm

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Perceiver]

Space has atoms. Dark matter is not "nothing". An absolute vacuum has never been found. In the physical world, everything is something, it seems.

 

When it comes to the metaphysical world i think bearded dragon may be on to something: in our minds, nothingness cannot exist. Because if it is nothing, then how could it exist? The word reveals its own paradox. In the metaphysical world, everything seems to be "something" too.

 

If nothingness does exist, then I believe it could be one of those paradoxes of reality that cannot be understood or explained with, as BD says, the thinking mind. Perhaps it can only be lived and known through absolute consciousness.

[blue eyed snake]

My way of thinkng is actually more along the lines of what you describe. I am used to getting retorts that tell me that we are something that came from nothing/something in floating in nothing. I simply cannot comprehend nothingness.

 

eh, the way I see it is that 'matter' is the coarsest form of 'spirit' ( and 'spirit' the most refined form of 'matter') thereby making one of what seems to be two different 'things' Thinking further along that line, maybe nothingness becomes 'spirit only' ( meaning there is no matter to be perceived, only spirit)

 

But it is indeed best not to think too much about it ...

[Silent Answers]

Ignoring the philosophical side of this, space is now more commonly viewed as an ocean of plasma, currently (badum-tsh).

[Michael Sternbach]

Yes, space can be seen as some kind of "plasma" since it's seething with virtual particles popping in and out of the "vacuum". Nothing is nowhere to be found!

 

However, there are degrees of manifestation, and there are degrees of space. Relative space can be bent whereas the absolute space that it is embedded in cannot. The concept of absolute space is correlated with Infinity. Infinity is as intangible as Nothing. Actually, they are both Infinities, as Nothing or Zero is the infinitely small.

[mYTHmAKER]

Is space half empty or half full?  Discuss

[steve]

Is space, the emptiness between matter (planets, comets, stars, etc) truly nothingness?

 

If it is something that can contain things, is it truly nothingness (not something)?

 

If it can be curved, is it truly nothingness?

 

Can something be something and still be nothingness? Is nothingness something?

 

Space is more than "the emptiness between matter" as it also is the "emptiness" that is matter. 

Matter, as we perceive it, does not "take up" or "occupy" space. 

It IS space, as perceived through our unique sensory and interpretive apparatus. 

 

Space is not something because it cannot be defined or limited in any way; and it is not nothing because it can and does manifest everything. 

 

Yes, something can be something and still be nothingness.

In fact, everything is nothingness and nothingness is everything. 

If you are truly interested in this topic, the Buddhist and Bön teachings are very helpful. 

I'll warn you, however, that independent study of the teachings can be challenging and a credible teacher is invaluable.

[dawei]

I simply cannot comprehend nothingness.

 

Nothing is something... does that help

[Marblehead]

Nothing is something... does that help

Is that like "emptiness is fullness"?

[Nungali]

Is space, the emptiness between matter (planets, comets, stars, etc) truly nothingness?

 

If it is something that can contain things, is it truly nothingness (not something)?

 

If it can be curved, is it truly nothingness?

 

Can something be something and still be nothingness? Is nothingness something?

 

'Primal energy' ...   energy before 'creation'  is the 0 , or nothingness.  Then energy  (or 'the nothingness' )  ' splits in two' and becomes 'contained' in matter or in 'space' ( that is space with no matter in it ) . 

 

0 = n+  +  n - 

 

=

 

 

 

 

 

Run it in reverse and 'squash' the two components back together and 

 

n -  +  n+  =  0 

 

which consumes time as well as matter and space

 

 

 

But can we count this new 'real  nothingness' as part of 'space' if it doesnt exist in this universe ? 

 

Or does it exist 'between the Universe'  ?   And is part of a cycle ?

 

[Marblehead]

Well....by Leibniz, Langan, Peirce, Neoplatonists, Vedantists, and innovating GU-Theorists, the "primal energy" is awareness and the emergence of matter is a result of awareness being restricted until effete (whereupon the more active and subtle principles shape and move it).

Yes, one could say that.  Personally, I wouldn't.

[Brian]

Energy.

 

We have an incomplete understanding, intellectually, but we recognize that it's all about energy.

 

Remember that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Remember that energy can change from one form to another. Remember that matter is just a form of energy.

 

It is all about energy and energy is all about vibrations.

[Michael Sternbach]

Energy as understood in physics still belongs to the physical level.

 

Metaphysical systems often refer to more subtle types of "energy" (and "matter", for that matter).

 

All puns intended.

[dwai]

Here's an alternate understanding/explanation of space

 

In Hinduism, Akasha means the basis and essence of all things in the material world; the first material element created from the astral world, (Akasha (Ether), Earth,Water,Fire,Air,) in sequence). It is one of the Panchamahabhuta, or "five elements"; its main characteristic is Shabda (sound). In Sanskrit the word means "space"