Upper Dantian 101, please . . .

[thelerner]

or I'm just getting older..and lack the heat of my younger days.  When I'd practically sweat after some meditations and could rub my hands hot enough to make other people jump.

[Limahong]

19 minutes ago, thelerner said:

 

When I'd practically sweat after some meditations and could rub my hands hot enough to make other people jump.

 

 

 

[cheya]

Very interesting thread.
My experience with the Upper Dantian area isn't from any particular lineage, and not derived from a particular Taoist practice or understanding AFAIK, but I'm interested in any comments.

I've followed Scott Meredith's work for some years, and he has a very interesting rap on activating Niwan (basically the upper Dantian) before doing energy work. He says that although Niwan is located near the pineal gland, it is an energetic structure, not actually a physical place. It is the receptacle for the cosmic energies flowing in from above. It's a different structure from the Third Eye, which is more to the front.  He says Niwan acts as an ignition switch for energetic circulation in the body. It's sort of a "grand central station" for directing the energy, and he said getting it activated is an amazing full body experience. He said just to touch in there before practice to get it activated. I didn't feel anything energetic from "just touching in there", so I had to work on how to activate it, which took me a couple weeks. One day  while working there, my whole body lit up with energy flows! I was astonished.

My way of "working there" involves holding and rotating my sensating attention in the general area of the pineal. It is not imagining or visualizing.  It is feeling.  Activating Niwan has never given me a headache (and I would not do it if it did).  The full body energy flows are very pleasant. Once activated I don't direct the energy, as it seems to have its own agenda, and I let it do its thing. This isn't a spiritual practice, but more a way to clear the energy circulation, washing out stagnation in the whole body. I feel upbeat and energized for hours afterwards.

 

I usually end by doing some abdominal circling in both directions, which does serve to bring the energy down to the lower dantian area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by cheya

[Sketch]

8 minutes ago, cheya said:

Very interesting thread.
My experience with the Upper Dantian area isn't from any particular lineage, and not derived from a particular Taoist practice or understanding AFAIK, but I'm interested in any comments.

I've followed Scott Meredith's work for some years, and he has a very interesting rap on activating Niwan (basically the upper Dantian) before doing energy work. He says that although Niwan is located near the pineal gland, it is an energetic structure, not actually a physical place. It is the receptacle for the cosmic energies flowing in from above. It's a different structure from the Third Eye, which is more to the front.  He says Niwan acts as an ignition switch for energetic circulation in the body. It's sort of a "grand central station" for directing the energy, and he said getting it activated is an amazing full body experience. He said just to touch in there before practice to get it activated. I didn't feel anything energetic from "just touching in there", so I had to work on how to activate it, which took me a couple weeks. One day  while working there, my whole body lit up with energy flows! I was astonished.

My way of "working there" involves holding and rotating my sensating attention in the general area of the pineal. It is not imagining or visualizing.  It is feeling.  Activating Niwan has never given me a headache (and I would not do it if it did).  The full body energy flows are very pleasant. Once activated I don't direct the energy, as it seems to have its own agenda, and I let it do its thing. This isn't a spiritual practice, but more a way to clear the energy circulation, washing out stagnation in the whole body. I feel upbeat and energized for hours afterwards.

 

 

 

 

I associate this with the plexus of blood vessels and nerves surrounding the pituitary. I tend to check in briefly with the pulse there at the beginning of energy work, also per Scott Meredith's writing.

[cheya]

11 minutes ago, Sketch said:

I associate this with the plexus of blood vessels and nerves surrounding the pituitary. I tend to check in briefly with the pulse there at the beginning of energy work, also per Scott Meredith's writing.

 

You can feel the pulse there? Like you mean heart beat?

 

Do you get the whole body flow thing too?

 

[Sketch]

It's the "last stop" for feeling nerve endings in the middle of the head. When I "visit" the spot, there's a reciprocal sense of the pulse in the abdomen. 

 

28 minutes ago, cheya said:

 

You can feel the pulse there? Like you mean heart beat?

 

Do you get the whole body flow thing too?

 

The pulses resolve into rotating locations, and there develops a feeling of downward flowing through my gooey parts. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Sketch

[Sketch]

Sort of thing.

[cheya]

30 minutes ago, Sketch said:

It's the "last stop" for feeling nerve endings in the middle of the head. When I "visit" the spot, there's a reciprocal sense of the pulse in the abdomen. 

 

The pulses resolve into rotating locations, and there develops a feeling of downward flowing through my gooey parts. 

 

That's so cool!  You're the first person to mention the rotating quality! Maybe I just lucked into that because I was working with Robert Bruce's rotating energy sensing technique.

 

Doing this practice really improved my lower dantian energetics, as that's one of the strong "destinations" the energy chooses. I also get strong flows in arms and legs in addition to the "gooey parts", lol. Maybe I've preferentially opened those flows with all the Taichi Ruler and chinese balls practice which do circulate all over, not just centrally.

The energy does not stick to your legs, but more like a single column/pillar to the ground?
Swallowing to add to the spin? 

 

So many questions! 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by cheya

[Sketch]

No, the column is not literal energy into the ground. These sketches are..sketchy. 

 

I'm not  getting as much real circulation through the arms, but I have loads of shoulder damage and beat up hands to boot. Fair ladies hand during standing practice has done a lot of good there. 

 

I'm absolutely in a stage of building structure and clearing blockages, and likely to be there for a while.

 

 

 

 

[cheya]

And swallowing to add to the spin? 
Or is that about

a different practice?

[Sketch]

Just now, cheya said:

And swallowing to add to the spin? 
Or is that about

a different practice?

That was an observation at the time.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sketch]

This thread  kind of follows my understanding of the protocol...starts out at the upper Dantian,  ends up with rotation of the lower.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Sketch

[freeform]

11 hours ago, cheya said:

He says Niwan acts as an ignition switch for energetic circulation in the body. It's sort of a "grand central station" for directing the energy, and he said getting it activated is an amazing full body experience. He said just to touch in there before practice to get it activated. I didn't feel anything energetic from "just touching in there", so I had to work on how to activate it, which took me a couple weeks. One day  while working there, my whole body lit up with energy flows! I was astonished.

 

Yeah - the Niwan holds a lot of Yang Qi - similar to kundalini - but different.

 

The Kunlun system works with this a lot.

 

I recommend extreme caution.

[forestofemptiness]

I actually wonder if consistently focusing the attention on any spot, or physical area, isn't a liability in the long run. I used to do a lot of somatic, body practices. While very grounding, these practices led me to have a strong but mistaken sense of self. I have had to spend quite a bit of time "unlearning" much of this.

 

Head centered meditation seems especially pernicious because many people in Western cultures often locate a sense of self there. Part of this is due to an imaginary line you can trace from your line of sight backward behind the eyes, part of it is due to the focus on the brain, part of it is due to the cephalization of our senses. 

 

Also, nearly every Taoist teacher has warned about getting qi stuck in the head. 

 

On 1/20/2021 at 11:54 AM, thelerner said:

I am certainly no expert but found when doing a meditation system by Spotless, you began breathing with a focus on the middle of the head (not 3rd eye).  Stayed there til comfortable, then moved on and ended, wisely, at the lower dan tien.  

 

In the past I hadn't done much focus on the head.  My early readings tended to warn against it, ie don't accumulate energy there it could get stuck.  Anyhow, I found with increased focus (at the start) on the upper dan tien, my energy and body seemed to run cooler.  When I'd be 100% on the lower dan tien, seemed my energy and body ran hotter.  

 

[Cybele]

10 hours ago, freeform said:

I recommend extreme caution.

 

Would you be willing to elaborate on some of your experiences when you did not use extreme caution? What we should look out for?

[freeform]

30 minutes ago, Cybele said:

 

Would you be willing to elaborate on some of your experiences when you did not use extreme caution? What we should look out for?

I was ok because I stopped when I started getting very spaced out in day to day life - and pulsating pressure etc.

 

But I knew people doing head based practices that went on to get psychiatric issues - paranoia, and or delusions of grandeur etc. 
 

Others were fine. So just keep a very careful watch over your cultivation.

[Maddie]

28 minutes ago, freeform said:

I was ok because I stopped when I started getting very spaced out in day to day life - and pulsating pressure etc.

 

But I knew people doing head based practices that went on to get psychiatric issues - paranoia, and or delusions of grandeur etc. 
 

Others were fine. So just keep a very careful watch over your cultivation.

 

One reason I was asking is because the method of breath meditation I was taught in Buddhism said to focus on the air going in the nose. I would notice when I did this I would eventually feel qi at my third eye area and since I felt something there my attention would go there and then I would feel it more, so on and so forth. So I think I accidently fell into upper dan tien breathing meditation accidently. As I have mentioned in other posts lately I felt like meditation was making me go nuts. This is one reason I was asking.

[freeform]

21 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

the method of breath meditation I was taught in Buddhism said to focus on the air going in the nose.

Sadly anapanasati is taught so badly by many teachers  

[Maddie]

9 minutes ago, freeform said:

Sadly anapanasati is taught so badly by many teachers  

 

It would seem so. I'm questioning a lot of things lately.

[thelerner]

3 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

I actually wonder if consistently focusing the attention on any spot, or physical area, isn't a liability in the long run. I used to do a lot of somatic, body practices. While very grounding, these practices led me to have a strong but mistaken sense of self. I have had to spend quite a bit of time "unlearning" much of this.

 

Head centered meditation seems especially pernicious because many people in Western cultures often locate a sense of self there. Part of this is due to an imaginary line you can trace from your line of sight backward behind the eyes, part of it is due to the focus on the brain, part of it is due to the cephalization of our senses. 

 

Also, nearly every Taoist teacher has warned about getting qi stuck in the head.

I appreciate the caution.  The head focus is one part of 5, the shortest and first part.  For me it ends with time in the dan tien and last stage of just sitting.

[Master Logray]

8 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

One reason I was asking is because the method of breath meditation I was taught in Buddhism said to focus on the air going in the nose. I would notice when I did this I would eventually feel qi at my third eye area and since I felt something there my attention would go there and then I would feel it more, so on and so forth. So I think I accidently fell into upper dan tien breathing meditation accidently. As I have mentioned in other posts lately I felt like meditation was making me go nuts. This is one reason I was asking.

 

Concentrating on air in/out of nose would lead to high blood pressure.

 

[Maddie]

7 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

Concentrating on air in/out of nose would lead to high blood pressure.

 

 

It didn't cause me to have high blood pressure, but it did cause me to almost go cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

[Bhathen]

Proper concentration in the nose leads to the opening of the Sushumna or central channel, resulting in a state of extreme happiness or ecstacy. 

[Maddie]

9 minutes ago, Bhathen said:

Proper concentration in the nose leads to the opening of the Sushumna or central channel, resulting in a state of extreme happiness or ecstacy. 

 

This did not seem to be my experience.

[Bhathen]

The 'Vijnana Bhairava - Manual for Self Realization' by Swami Lakshmanjoo is a good reference.

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Bhathen
Reference has been edited