The Aim of the Daoist

[Unlearner]

Greetings to all,

 

It has been a matter of time since I have written here, as I have managed to keep busy with both work and school in tandem. However, I've decided to share something I have been pondering over to see if anyone else could provide insight into this... dilemma?

 

I truly do enjoy studying and contemplating Daoism and Buddhism, but I still have a problem with identifying myself as either a Daoist or Buddhist. Perhaps the reason for this is because I do not entirely seek (or maybe understand would be better here) the same end goals. Particularly, I would like to speak in regards to Daoism. The concept of the Dao has provided great insight what I might perceive as the true nature of things, and I respect the idea of following (becoming one with?) the Dao.

 

However, there seems to be a common theme in Daoism of immortality, how a Daoist may try to attain immortality by harmonizing with the Dao. Somehow, to me this just seems... disagreeable to me. I just can't bring myself to desire or wish to seek making myself immortal. On the one hand, by living in accordance with the Dao, one should be able to prolong one's life, but on the other hand, attempting to attain immortality just seems.... unnatural. And that which is unnatural does not follow in accordance with the Dao. That which is living will perish, in accordance with the natural way of things, so trying to become immortal seems counterintuitive to the Dao.

 

Am I making a mistake in my thoughts here? or is it simply that my goals do not align with the goals of a Daoist?

[silent thunder]

I'm very much with you in spirit, if not every particular.

 

While many things in Taoist writings and concepts have proven valid to me time and again... I can't call myself a Taoist. I can't call myself an anything-ist. Labels are words, people are fluid. We are verbs.

 

The moment any label comes up, I flinch away from it, because my deepest abiding sense of self is that I'm a verb, not a noun. There is no label that suffices, except perhaps once I'm dead. Then you could pretty accurately say some things about me, but until then, there is nothing static about any part of me and so no one label is sufficient to encompass it.

 

I don't think you're making any mistake, I think you're looking at yourself with a pretty admirable sense of perspective and some fairly rare self introspection as far as most folks go.

 

I also don't think there are any agreed generalities that apply to any ists out there.

 

Put 25 buddhists or daoists, or any 'ists' in a room and ask them what to explain it to you and you'll get 25 reflections of the writings, the philosophy and any associated rituals. Heck, this is replayed every day on this and any other forum out there.

 

The sense of what I'm driving at is kind of summed up in this quote...

 

"we are all just walking each other home"

I wish you an awesome journey and should we find ourselves on the path together, let's share some tea and a chat...

[forestofemptiness]

I think it is wise to avoid labels or identifying with this or that.

 

Along those lines, consider that Daoism and Buddhism are both extremely diverse. There are many school and approaches within Daoism: religious, mystical, alchemical, etc. Some seek physical immortality, others seek to recover "original nature." You'll see more of the later among the Daoists that combine the three schools (Confucianism, Daoism, and Buddhism).

 

From my own point of view, depending on where you live, it can be much harder to come into connection with a good Daoist teacher --- or to say, it's not in the cards for everyone.

[ChiDragon]

Greetings to all,

 

.......I have been pondering over to see if anyone else could provide insight into this... dilemma?

 

I truly do enjoy studying and contemplating Daoism and Buddhism, but I still have a problem with identifying myself as either a Daoist or Buddhist. Perhaps the reason for this is because I do not entirely seek (or maybe understand would be better here) the same end goals. Particularly, I would like to speak in regards to Daoism. The concept of the Dao has provided great insight what I might perceive as the true nature of things, and I respect the idea of following (becoming one with?) the Dao.

 

However, there seems to be a common theme in Daoism of immortality, how a Daoist may try to attain immortality by harmonizing with the Dao. Somehow, to me this just seems... disagreeable to me. I just can't bring myself to desire or wish to seek making myself immortal. On the one hand, by living in accordance with the Dao, one should be able to prolong one's life, but on the other hand, attempting to attain immortality just seems.... unnatural. And that which is unnatural does not follow in accordance with the Dao. That which is living will perish, in accordance with the natural way of things, so trying to become immortal seems counterintuitive to the Dao.

 

Am I making a mistake in my thoughts here? or is it simply that my goals do not align with the goals of a Daoist?

 

Since you are more interested in Taoist, then let's concentrate on Taoism. There are two sides to Taoism. One can either study the philosophy aspect or practice the religious aspect of Taoism. If one related to either aspect may be considered as a Taoist, I guess!

 

I am practicing the philosophical aspect of Toaism which makes me a Taoist. So to speak. In regarding to immortality, it was legendary for those who wanted to become one by practicing some types of Chi Kung exercises to prolong life. The aiming goal was to be an immortal which was only a myth in the Taoist mind. There are many attempts by trying to be immortal but just ended up prolonged one's life. That's all. In some people's opinion, anyone who can live over one hundred years old may be considered to be an immortal.

 

As you said, a most logical person would think to become an immortal is unnatural. Besides unnatural, it is impractical. Hence, in the modern time if one says to be an immortal which really means to prolong one's life. IMHO.

 

Now, then, it comes to the question is prolong one's life is natural....??? My thought is, since Nature provides us life with a choice of living habits. One can either live short, long or longer and we have a choice, don't we? What would you choose? I would like to live longer. Therefore, I will seek ways to prolong my life.

 

The ancient Taoists had tried the external alchemy to prolong life. Instead of living longer but they died from poisoning of lead and mercury. With the external alchemy failed, so, they tried internal alchemy by emulating the external alchemy inside the body. The internal alchemy is mainly involves in breathing. It was know as Chi Kung. Unfortunately, the term Chi was introduced and most people get so confused about its definition. Furthermore, no one is able to give Chi Kung a good definition for a good explanation.

 

Finally, you are not making a mistake, my friend! Instead try to attain immortality by harmonizing with Dao, how about by harmonizing with Tao in prolong one's life....???

Edited January 9, 2015 by ChiDragon

[Yasjua]

I see Taoism as a root science from which other laws of being can be understood. One can learn music, health, martial arts, healing, or any other science/art from Taoism. We can also reverse engineer the principles of Taoism by studying other arts. Taoism is about uniting heaven and earth, whatever the hell that means. Recognize the deathless and the divine and immortality is right here within and around us at all times. In my not so humble opinion anyone striving for physical immortality is a fucking idiot. The immortal is the cosmic principle, this is clear as day in all teachings. As for prolonging life - this is a quantitative goal. A more balanced desire is to live a qualitatively better life. If one wants to practice internal healing arts and live longer as well, that's fine, but wishing for more than one's allotted life span indicates greed and attachment, and is certainly not in alignment with the cosmic principle, which is totally detached and utterly loving.

[dawei]

It has been a matter of time since I have written here, as I have managed to keep busy with both work and school in tandem. However, I've decided to share something I have been pondering over to see if anyone else could provide insight into this... dilemma?

 

I truly do enjoy studying and contemplating Daoism and Buddhism, but I still have a problem with identifying myself as either a Daoist or Buddhist. Perhaps the reason for this is because I do not entirely seek (or maybe understand would be better here) the same end goals. Particularly, I would like to speak in regards to Daoism. The concept of the Dao has provided great insight what I might perceive as the true nature of things, and I respect the idea of following (becoming one with?) the Dao.

 

This is an important passage along your path. I won't suggest any Way is better than another but simply follow the path your seem to follow. Herein is the important part: Notice the path; follow the path.

 

 

However, there seems to be a common theme in Daoism of immortality, how a Daoist may try to attain immortality by harmonizing with the Dao. Somehow, to me this just seems... disagreeable to me. I just can't bring myself to desire or wish to seek making myself immortal.

 

unnatural ? Good... now we're getting somewhere

 

Your inner mind and local mind are disagreeing on some point of the path... and your listening to your local mind's desire and wish TO SEEK or NOT SEEK... you have an inner idea which arises but does not make sense... yet.

 

On the one hand, by living in accordance with the Dao, one should be able to prolong one's life, but on the other hand, attempting to attain immortality just seems.... unnatural. And that which is unnatural does not follow in accordance with the Dao. That which is living will perish, in accordance with the natural way of things, so trying to become immortal seems counterintuitive to the Dao.

 

OK... a very strong statement from the mind... that is good to get it out.

 

Think of this as two realms: local and eternal. Your local mind is trying to make sense of an eternal Dao.

 

Your looking from one realm and glimpsing the next and pronouncing what is the understanding within the next.... but from the lower realm. Your not at the next realm yet to fully understand it yet.

 

At the next realm, there is no longer any comparison, path, or pronouncement.

 

Am I making a mistake in my thoughts here? or is it simply that my goals do not align with the goals of a Daoist?

 

You are not making any mistakes. You are questioning what is unfolding in your current position relative to the future/eternal path. Let them come as they will... and let them pass.... Follow your path.

 

Your goal is to follow the path you see in front of you.

 

Daoist? Let's forget the label

[Ish]

Greetings to all,

 

It has been a matter of time since I have written here, as I have managed to keep busy with both work and school in tandem. However, I've decided to share something I have been pondering over to see if anyone else could provide insight into this... dilemma?

 

I truly do enjoy studying and contemplating Daoism and Buddhism, but I still have a problem with identifying myself as either a Daoist or Buddhist. Perhaps the reason for this is because I do not entirely seek (or maybe understand would be better here) the same end goals. Particularly, I would like to speak in regards to Daoism. The concept of the Dao has provided great insight what I might perceive as the true nature of things, and I respect the idea of following (becoming one with?) the Dao.

 

However, there seems to be a common theme in Daoism of immortality, how a Daoist may try to attain immortality by harmonizing with the Dao. Somehow, to me this just seems... disagreeable to me. I just can't bring myself to desire or wish to seek making myself immortal. On the one hand, by living in accordance with the Dao, one should be able to prolong one's life, but on the other hand, attempting to attain immortality just seems.... unnatural. And that which is unnatural does not follow in accordance with the Dao. That which is living will perish, in accordance with the natural way of things, so trying to become immortal seems counterintuitive to the Dao.

 

Am I making a mistake in my thoughts here? or is it simply that my goals do not align with the goals of a Daoist?

 

The aim is not immortality of the physical body, you can wonder then - what is it that becomes immortal?