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This is a great topic to discuss!

 

It seems to be foundational and vital to the transformational process.

 

The people on this forum are capable of bringing their various systems/ methods together to gain a broader understanding of who/what we are.

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Liezi: Tr. Linnell


凡 物 之 精 Always : the essence of creatures –

此 則 為 生 This then makes them live.

下 生 五 穀 Below, it gives birth to the five grains;

上 為 列 星 Above, it acts to arrange the stars.

流 於 天 地 之 間 When it flows in the space between heaven and earth

謂 之 鬼 神 We call them ghosts and spirits.

藏 於 胸 中 When it collects in the center of the breast of people,

謂 之 聖 人 We call them sages.



When the cord is cut, fire arises... water descends.

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Liezi: Tr. Linnell
凡 物 之 精 Always : the essence of creatures –
此 則 為 生 This then makes them live.
下 生 五 穀 Below, it gives birth to the five grains;
上 為 列 星 Above, it acts to arrange the stars.
流 於 天 地 之 間 When it flows in the space between heaven and earth
謂 之 鬼 神 We call them ghosts and spirits.
藏 於 胸 中 When it collects in the center of the breast of people,
謂 之 聖 人 We call them sages.
When the cord is cut, fire arises... water descends.

 

Hey, Dawei!

 

I thought you would enjoy this topic.

 

Is that saying that the center in the heart is where you should focus?

 

In between Heaven, UTT and Earth LTT, is the MTT / Heart. The place where the Earth and Heaven merge/ meet.

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To go along with what Dawei posted-

 

The lotus that reaches the inner part of the heart
Is the principal one, which has eight nerve-leaves.
The nerve that reaches the inside of it is like a lamp.
In shape, it resembles the plantain flower,
Leaves opened and facing downward.
The god who dwells within it
Is as small as the mustard seed.
The indestructible seed—the Hūṃ,
Trembles like the snow about to melt…

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Thanks Trunk. Ironically, sometimes the taobums can be a distraction from cultivation. Lets just say we've got our share of pointless bickering. But then every once in awhile you read something that actually swoops you up and takes you to that deep place. You don't just write about it, you ignite it. Much appreciated.

 

Liminal

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Is that saying that the center in the heart is where you should focus?

 

You aren't made of just one center.

It's like saying that of all the organs, all you need is the lungs. Would you do away with your other organs? Or if somehow you could cultivate the lungs, make them huge and neglect all the other organs, leave them regular sized or some injured/undeveloped, that everything would solve. It doesn't work that way. Balance. Different traditions, different schools, sometimes emphasize a certain center ... but we are integral. Create imbalance and you'll ... well, you'll be imbalanced.

 

Heaven ~ earth energies flow through *all* of the centers. *Each* center connects through the deep-center to the universal. The alchemy of *each* center must be accomplished, gradually deeper and deeper.

 

Some traditions say that you get to the universal only through the crown. It's just not true; it's just easiest to do it in the higher centers and it often happens there first. ... but it often leads to a disorder in that the universal energies are integrated through an upper center only and the lower center/s are undeveloped and you end up with an unbalanced physical wreck in the long term, a kind of spiritual paraplegic. Especially since the lower centers are typically more difficult to open (though it varies per individual). The Taoist path typically works on development of the lower centers first as a remedy to that situation ... then when the universal energies come through a person's health is not destroyed.

 

Is as small as the mustard seed.

That's a bindu, often referred to as that size. It takes a lot of refinement and time to ignite its' relationship with The Big Light.

Edited by Trunk
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You aren't made of just one center.

It's like saying that of all the organs, all you need is the lungs. Would you do away with your other organs? Or if somehow you could cultivate the lungs, make them huge and neglect all the other organs, leave them regular sized or some injured/undeveloped, that everything would solve. It doesn't work that way. Balance. Different traditions, different schools, sometimes emphasize a certain center ... but we are integral. Create imbalance and you'll ... well, you'll be imbalanced.

 

Heaven ~ earth energies flow through *all* of the centers. *Each* center connects through the deep-center to the universal. The alchemy of *each* center must be accomplished, gradually deeper and deeper.

 

Some traditions say that you get to the universal only through the crown. It's just not true; it's just easiest to do it in the higher centers and it often happens there first. ... but it often leads to a disorder in that the universal energies are integrated through an upper center only and the lower center/s are undeveloped and you end up with an unbalanced physical wreck in the long term, a kind of spiritual paraplegic. Especially since the lower centers are typically more difficult to open (though it varies per individual). The Taoist path typically works on development of the lower centers first as a remedy to that situation ... then when the universal energies come through a person's health is not destroyed.

 

excellent perspectives.

 

Then, is it not that the heart is the place of focus, but that all the centers below and above must be cultivated to merge them in the heart properly?

 

In the yogas of naropa and other tibetan texts they utilize specific colors of light for each center. The navel/ lower tantien is red.

 

Why do you/ do not utilize these colors? (question for anybody)

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Then, is it not that the heart is the place of focus, but that all the centers below and above must be cultivated to merge them in the heart properly?

 

It's not a cut up separate sequence of steps like that. Not "first perfect this, only then work on that". You can't perfect any one part apart from the whole.

 

Think of it like lifting weights at the gym. What if you *only* worked on your legs for years, working to perfect them *first*, and never all that time worked on your arms? Or the opposite? Or did that lopsided development long term with any muscle group?

 

I would say that the lower centers have denser energy so they typically and legitimately do take more time, more work to develop. And that going too high too fast without that lower integration leads to health disaster. The Taoists are onto something. ... but that doesn't mean that you should neglect upper centers altogether.

Edited by Trunk
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Why do you/ do not utilize these colors? (question for anybody)

I've been busy w/ other parts to the puzzle.

You've prompted me to start taking a look at this gap in my knowledge/experience.

Thanks. :)

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Hey, Dawei!

 

I thought you would enjoy this topic.

 

Is that saying that the center in the heart is where you should focus?

 

In between Heaven, UTT and Earth LTT, is the MTT / Heart. The place where the Earth and Heaven merge/ meet.

 

For research, cross reference to DDJ 60 and 5.

 

The center is probably the most overlooked part of energetics.

- After birth, the cord is cut and essence/energy rises to form the middle energy center

- In neigong, the LDT fire raises to the center

- The center is where the heart is; the heart energy heals all things

- The center is also the location of unprocessed emotions; maybe we should say ignored as we just don't deal with them

- It is the bellows for the LDT and UDT

- The heart is home to the spirit (shen)

 

I once learned a breathing technique to connect the heart, solar plex, and stomach energy... you have to pass the energy between the three and this 'communication' centers all of them. Ergo, the center then includes all three :)

 

When I did this under the guidance of a teacher, I was told that I was able to do this rather easily compared to most. Someone without any energy training cannot do it at all. They are not used to connecting to these areas. I think it is probably due to my Medical Qigong interests where intention and visualization are developed for such things.

 

BTW: You have to be careful of focusing or concentrating too much on the heart. It is a powerful yet vulnerable area.

 

Heart Link

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Gold will work better in higher vibrations than most whites.

Pearl essent white is ok.

Many whites are fairly solid and do not flow well.

Many whites are used to stop things temporarily - much of the use of whites is based on tradition or assumption.

 

Most speaking of whites have little actual sight.

Edited by Spotless
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Gold will work better in higher vibrations than most whites.

Pearl essent white is ok.

Many whites are fairly solid and do not flow well.

Many whites are used to stop things temporarily - much of the use of whites is based on tradition or assumption.

 

Most speaking of whites have little actual sight.

 

For the lower centers, such as LTT, which color do you consider to be the best at transforming/ cultivating that center?

 

In the tantric texts I have read, they utilize red for the navel center AND the throat. Any ideas as to why?

 

Thanks

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Maintain attention in the LDT as the energy begins to work its way in the MDT and you will not be overcome with emotions.

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For the lower centers, such as LTT, which color do you consider to be the best at transforming/ cultivating that center?

 

In the tantric texts I have read, they utilize red for the navel center AND the throat. Any ideas as to why?

 

Thanks

 

In the LDT RED is most frequently used under the teachers direction.

I hesitate to say why because it is not a "good" vibration to use in so many areas and on many occasions.

However in the LDT it is relatively safe to use and sets up a clearing cleaning energy throughout the body.

(using this color vibration and forcefully bringing it up your spine on the other hand may create very negative effects and many long term health problems.

 

This same vibration works well in the throat chakra for clearing a number of patterns that are relatively easily cleared and less easily altered unless the student actually is really working on changing the patterns / habits.

It is also a color that if applied properly in this area at the correct times can clear out beings - and other "items" from the channels connecting to and around the ears.

 

 

 

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The throat chakra is quite different from many of the other chakras in that it is quite resilient and relatively well exercised by many.

It resembles the second chakra in some ways on this.

 

The second chakra has a vast array of abilities - very few are known.

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I do not specifically recommend any particular vibration for any particular chakra.

 

If you have stored sufficient energy / qi and your teacher is having you do certain exercises - it may be deemed time to flame up your LDT to a fairly full furnace.

Your body will begin sweating but if you are doing long exercises requiring your arms to be up or even above your head for 20-30 minutes or more - this is relatively easy with the fire going - nearly impossible without.

 

Edit: I am not talking about static exercise like horse stance but exercises involving continuous movement of the arms all above chest height.

Edited by Spotless
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If you do not actually have a teacher telling you what vibrational colors to go to and you cannot see what you are doing then use postulate vibrations - always the way to go for safe quality practice.

 

Postulate vibration:

Eg- bring my heart chakra to the best vibration for me at this time in working through the emotions that are most effecting my fear of pain in my present circumstances (that is quite specific)

 

Eg-2 bring my spine and adrenals and all other areas within my space that are not calm to a calming vibration, one that will allow me to sleep (or function) peacefully and without anxiousness.

 

Eg-3 may my crown chakra vibration rise to the highest vibration that I can handle while still being comfortably in my body and in my space.

Edited by Spotless
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I do not specifically recommend any particular vibration for any particular chakra.

 

If you have stored sufficient energy / qi and your teacher is having you do certain exercises - it may be deemed time to flame up your LDT to a fairly full furnace.

Your body will begin sweating but if you are doing long exercises requiring your arms to be up or even above your head for 20-30 minutes or more - this is relatively easy with the fire going - nearly impossible without.

 

Edit: I am not talking about static exercise like horse stance but exercises involving continuous movement of the arms all above chest height.

yes, observe qualitative aspects of the attendant energetics...look for the signal amidst the noise...

 

hey man, is that freedom rock?

yeaahh!

well turnnn it up, man! :lol:

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I tried not to have any expectation or ascribe any sort of feeling before letting the signal to noise ratio game play itself out before assigning any concepts to the phenomena. Follow the fundamentals along a rigorous line of inquiry and put in the practice, let the extras pop out of the woodwork as they may...and they only really do with diligent and proper practice :)

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I once learned a breathing technique to connect the heart, solar plex, and stomach energy... you have to pass the energy between the three and this 'communication' centers all of them. Ergo, the center then includes all three

 

I was asked to share this technique.

 

I can share the two steps which I liked and continued to practice for some time. As a caveat, it is intended to start with someone who knows how to see and feel your energy flowing during the technique so you have a baseline of knowing if your sensing and feeling are correct too. Also, the key is to focus the energy to the center you are working with and at first it may be hard to know if your breath is scattering to the other centers or not.

 

1. Connecting to each Center: Focus on each center

Goal: Bring focus, energy and movement to the center in question

 

a. Lay down and clear and calm yourself however you wish.

b. Cross your hands over your chest. (I use left hand closest to the chest). Relax your arms as completely as possible.

c. Bring your breath and focus to the chest; Let your palms connect downward to the same place. Breath several times.

d. As you slowly breath, let your chest raise and fall. There should not be any breath going to the solar plexus nor LDT.

e. Do about 10 times once you recognize the chest rise and fall.

 

f. Repeat at LDT. Keep breath and focus to the LDT. Do not let any breath stay in the chest nor solar plexus.

 

g. Repeat for the solar plexus. Employ same focus and concentration of mind, breath, and energy.

 

Note: The Solar Plexus is usually the most challenging to see (or feel) if any movement is actually occurring. If you do this with another person, then the other person can at least comment on whether there is movement in that center, and also, if two centers (or three) are moving. They key is to only focus on one center and movement occurs only in that center.

 

 

2. Connecting the Centers: Flow between each center

Goal: Bring focus, energy and movement continuous from one center to another

 

a. After step #1 above, relax with hands at your side and breath through the LDT for 30-60 seconds.

b. Place one palm over the center of the chest and another over the center of the LDT.

c. Focus and breath a few times in ONLY the chest as outlined in #1.

d. When ready to connect, on the next exhale pass the energy to the LDT.
e. Do one focused breath on the LDT as outlined in #1.
f. On the exhale, pass the energy to the chest.
g. Do one focused breath on the chest.
h. On each exhale, keep passing the energy to the other center. Do for a few minutes.
i. Change to doing the Chest and Solar Plexus. Do same as above.
j. Change to doing the Solar Plexus and LDT. Do same as above.
k. After step #2 above, relax with hands at your side and breath through all the LDT for 30-60 seconds.
Notes: The order that you do which pair does not matter. Starting with the Chest and LDT is only because these two are easier for most to pass/connect at first.
The challenge is getting the breath to completely focus to only one center at a time and not let it scatter to other centers. Also, to be able to smoothly pass the energy and keep to the tempo of a 'single breath and pass' in a slow calm manner.
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I was asked to share this technique.

 

I can share the two steps which I liked and continued to practice for some time. As a caveat, it is intended to start with someone who knows how to see and feel your energy flowing during the technique so you have a baseline of knowing if your sensing and feeling are correct too. Also, the key is to focus the energy to the center you are working with and at first it may be hard to know if your breath is scattering to the other centers or not.

 

1. Connecting to each Center: Focus on each center

Goal: Bring focus, energy and movement to the center in question

 

a. Lay down and clear and calm yourself however you wish.

b. Cross your hands over your chest. (I use left hand closest to the chest). Relax your arms as completely as possible.

c. Bring your breath and focus to the chest; Let your palms connect downward to the same place. Breath several times.

d. As you slowly breath, let your chest raise and fall. There should not be any breath going to the solar plexus nor LDT.

e. Do about 10 times once you recognize the chest rise and fall.

 

f. Repeat at LDT. Keep breath and focus to the LDT. Do not let any breath stay in the chest nor solar plexus.

 

g. Repeat for the solar plexus. Employ same focus and concentration of mind, breath, and energy.

 

Note: The Solar Plexus is usually the most challenging to see (or feel) if any movement is actually occurring. If you do this with another person, then the other person can at least comment on whether there is movement in that center, and also, if two centers (or three) are moving. They key is to only focus on one center and movement occurs only in that center.

 

 

2. Connecting the Centers: Flow between each center

Goal: Bring focus, energy and movement continuous from one center to another

 

a. After step #1 above, relax with hands at your side and breath through the LDT for 30-60 seconds.

b. Place one palm over the center of the chest and another over the center of the LDT.

c. Focus and breath a few times in ONLY the chest as outlined in #1.

d. When ready to connect, on the next exhale pass the energy to the LDT.
e. Do one focused breath on the LDT as outlined in #1.
f. On the exhale, pass the energy to the chest.
g. Do one focused breath on the chest.
h. On each exhale, keep passing the energy to the other center. Do for a few minutes.
i. Change to doing the Chest and Solar Plexus. Do same as above.
j. Change to doing the Solar Plexus and LDT. Do same as above.
k. After step #2 above, relax with hands at your side and breath through all the LDT for 30-60 seconds.
Notes: The order that you do which pair does not matter. Starting with the Chest and LDT is only because these two are easier for most to pass/connect at first.
The challenge is getting the breath to completely focus to only one center at a time and not let it scatter to other centers. Also, to be able to smoothly pass the energy and keep to the tempo of a 'single breath and pass' in a slow calm manner.

 

Thank you for sharing this method, Dawei!

 

Working with the breath is definitely a beneficial thing to practice.

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Some questionable sourcing in this article but very interesting to see how different wording can faintly say something that is basically the same but almost unrecognizable.

 

On a side note: whites are often clearish vibrant crystalline and bright (not what most would think of as white).

 

 

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In the book Healing with Form, Energy and Light by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche, in the section on Tantra he talks about the Tigle.

 

The various aspects of Tantra Center work are the Horse, Rider, Path and Armor.

 

The Horse is the Lung/ Prana. The Rider is the Tigle, a sphere of light that is seen/ visualized. The Path is made of the various Channels. The Armor is the Sacred Syllable used.

 

The Tigle also represents the mind or consciousness. He says- the Horse is blind, the Rider lame.

 

In this book and Tibetan Healing Sounds ( which I recommend) there are various color associations with the chakras/ centers.

 

Either it is going to be luminosity or its going to be a specific color.

 

White/ Third Eye, Red/ Throat, Blue/ Heart, Red/ Navel are the specific colors that the books advise.

Edited by Uroboros
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