Non Alchemical / Guided MCO Health Benefits Explanation ?

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Hey All,


I am practicing the Small Universe as per Spring Forest Qigong ("forced" you could say) and seeing some good results. I feel refreshed and noticeably more energetic.


Masters like Nan Huai Chin trivialize this practice however, but I think they were coming from a spiritual / enlightenment standpoint. The Health Benefits seem significant. A lot of sick people are currently using the SFQ Small Universe and are seeing tangible results, dedicated practitioners are reporting almost miraculous changes.


Where do these health benefits come from ?


From my understanding, real alchemical MCO is when you have enough Jing that it starts overflowing from the Dan-Tian and converts into Yang Qi, a Kundalini-like Qi that burns the micro-cosmic open so to speak.

Obviously 99.99% of people doing the SFQ practice aren't at this stage, neither am I.


So what we're basically doing, from my understanding is :


1) Circulating Jing across the ren and du-mai


2) Circulating "Wind Qi" or the lower Yin Qi across the ren and du-mai


The Qi is actually strengthened by the guiding in the CD which makes the mind fall into emptiness.


The meridians remain relatively closed in the process (compared to a real MCO opening) but by pushing Jing and Qi, are we clearing some gross blockages then ?


According to Daoist thought, as stated by Master Lin, if you keep these two meridians open (relatively open in our case again), then you will remain healthy with no major blockages in the body.


I'm definitely grateful to this practice, and can recommend it in any case.




Edited by Sebastian
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A cultivator was a casual meditator. One quiet morning, she felt a light energy rising up her spine and then descending down the front of her body.


"Whoah! Cool rise and fall! Cool cycles!"


She proceeded to watch this interesting cyclical circulation in her morning meditations, day after day, year after year.


One day, the energy suddenly crystallized in her head and no longer went down the front of the body. From that moment on, there was a piece of diamond energy in her head wherever she went. With that energy, she grew wise and understanding. She felt light and joyful and healthy.


Naturally, many cultivators sought the great master to learn the Great Tao.


The master instructed the students, "Sit and good things will happen!"


His students say, "What will happen, master?"


She says, "You'll see!"


But the results were slow and non-fruitful. After a few months, the students became antsy. They started throwing tantrums. They starting asking many questions. Many students eventually left her.


The master didn't know what to do. She did not say anything initially, because her opening occurred so naturally for her, and thought that it would occur naturally for her students. But the students were just so curious!


In the end, she decided to share her personal experience to her students. She described the Ren and Du meridians. She explained how this pattern mirrored the rising and setting of the sun, as well as the evaporation and condensation cycle of water. She noted how the process was a natural recycling of sexual energy in the body. She noted that there were three energetic gates particularly difficult to pass through.


The students got many ideas from their master's personal experience and proceeded to process this experience in myriad ways.


Some students began visualizing the energy up the spine with assorted colors and imagery.

Some students clenched the anus muscles and coordinated the movement with gentle breathing.

Some students experimented with"qigong" that would seem to invoke the circulation naturally through physical movement.

Some students even devised the art of dual cultivation, where a man would be the du mai and the female would be the ren mai.

Some students just enjoyed the teacher's heartful sharing and continued to sit.


These methods was not the teacher's intention, but the situation is what it is. The teacher had to say something to her students -- or all the students would have left!


She decided to make most of the situation. She proceeded to carefully observe the students growth and took notes to see which methods were most effective.


"Which method would enable the students to reach the height of her attainment?


The results were mixed. Of the 1000 students she had, only 6 students had crystallized the energy like she did.


Interestingly, the situation could not be attributed to the method, because one student of each method had attained it. It also could not be attributed to effort, because all the students were full time cultivators in a pressure cooker cultivation setting.


The teacher proceeded to interview the six students to see what they had in common. After weeks of intensive questioning and discussion, the teacher was pooped and exhausted.


She plopped onto her couch. She smiled and asked the piece of crystallized energy in her head,


"What is the true Tao?"


The crystallized energy hissed and glowed.

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Update: Against all odds, my conceptual mind finally *solved* this....


The MCO is actually just like the internet (with a few teaks). See my Paint mock up attached.



Edited by Sebastian

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Perhaps this is something that happens when it is time? When the person has earned their immortality? Perhaps there are no methods that will achieve, other than being ready?


Do you think that only you shape yourself?


Someone else shapes you too.


This is why it is a great gift and one can relax.


There is a need to re-invent the wheel each time. Practice unity in diversity.


Methodless method.


No place to go but now. Don't seek teachers, unless the teachers seek you.


Can't fake the funk.

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The MCO is a natural sublimation process in the body to recycle sexual energy.


For the sake of teaching, teachers had to present the process to their students in a formalized way, and thus many different methods arose, dressed in various clothing. However, the natural process will always remain what it is.


The benefits of the exercise -- health or enlightenment -- are predicated on how naturally one can conduct the MCO. Naturalness is the only standard. If it is natural, then it is alchemy. If one method is slightly more effective than another, it is only because it facilitates the natural sublimation process better.


Guided meditation --SFQ style-- can be done both naturally and unnaturally, just as plain sitting meditation can be done both naturally and unnaturally. So success depends on how the exercises are performed by the student, not so much the exercises themselves.


What is naturalness, though?


For energetic circulation practices, it means guiding the energy without guiding the energy. It means using intention to reach non-intention.


Put another way, the mind and energy must move together, without scatteredness, such that the experience of the energy and the experiencer are One. In daily life, our energy and minds are constantly moving in opposite directions.


The more one speaks of this process, the more fanciful it seems. But it is not hard. It is achievable. It just takes some experience. Speaking is what makes it elusive.


If the energy feels forced, or if the mind gets tight, the cultivator knows that he violated the principle of naturalness.


Good luck!

Edited by thetaoiseasy
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Thanks. So then perhaps we are putting ourselves in an optimal state to "spark" the natural MCO through the guided work ? Or at least make it more likely to occur.


And still reaping the health benefits in the meantime if we do it naturally.


We put our minds aside, fall into the emptiness, and there is just energy moving.


We prime ourselves by clearing obstructions in the two tubes (and three gates) and building energy in the Dan-Tian.


The guided MCO is then more likely to bloom into the alchemical one.


And the raccoon gets fed.


Sebby eats.

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The MCO is a natural sublimation process in the body to recycle sexual energy.


Understood, however, isn't it a process that recycles excess sexual energy ?


That's where I get confused. The real MCO seems like an in-built safety mechanism in the human body. If you have so much Jing energy, it has nowhere else to go but shoot up the spine and fall back down refining itself into qi. That's the alchemical Jing to Qi conversion.


However, all of us folks who don't practice retention wouldn't ever trigger this process, at least not easily.


So in the guided style, don't we choose to take the route a little prematurely and push what ever amount of Jing we each have ?


Or am I off here ? Does the MCO happen (naturally) to people who aren't full of Jing, maybe in lesser amounts ?


Thanks all,



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The MCO is natural in that:


1) When the sexual energy is full

2) When the mind functions in an organic and focused way,


The energy will circulate in the MCO.


If you do not have enough sexual energy, you are just pushing air -- you simply have nothing to work with or circulate.

If your mind is scattered, the energy will move without direction or purpose.


In either case, there is no benefit.


And yet -- when we speak of successful cultivation -- there are unseen conditions that are way more important than those two conditions alone.




1) the person who taught you the practice

2) the amount of chi development the cultivator was born with


If the teacher is achieved, or if the cultivator was born with high spiritual potential, neither of the first two conditions need to be rigorously met.


A talented student may sit for a few weeks and the MCO starts moving, even if she is not celibate. Likewise, a completely mediocre student guided under an cultivated teacher can open the MCO within months.


So beyond talk of the efficacy of this or that method, there are a lot more than meets the eyes.


Every practice has a major part, moderate part, and minor part. It is very easy to speak about the minor parts, because they are apparent and can be easily discussed. But if you can grasp what is most important -- dare I say, mystical?-- then all the minor conditions will assist, but are ultimately not necessary.

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Eye-opening TIE, Thanks.


I think that deep down, what I was trying to do is reverse engineer the SFQ MCO and see how it could lead to the numerous health claims.


I'm not quite sure what sexual energy is full means (?), but I would have made the assumption that most folks playing the CD aren't at that threshold. I understand now that it varies from individual to individual , and that other factors can over-ride this requirement.


What you said in your post could easily apply in this case as well, because the Master's energy is embedded throughout the entire process.


We call for and feel the Master's love shining in our heart center, and then proceed to guide the qi to his voice. He pronounces some mantras (OMM and MWHAA) which resonate very deeply throughout the meditation. We vibrate with him.


I can actually feel a circulation when I do this. It feels like gooey warmth moving more of less in a line, but I think it's probably my imagination of friction from pushing air.


I have a kyphosis from childhood traumas that is slowly healing, so probably have a long way to go before the real thing activates.


Anyways, with that, I'll go do this meditation for one hour now and check this thread later.


Thanks TIE for helping a random dude on the internet,


Talk to you later my spiritual buddies,


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I guess the reason I posted my initial post in this thread was that I experienced a full MCO, paired with the dropping of the amrita nectar, not by my own effort, but via my Kundalini Shakti, who said: "To prove a point!" and this was in response to my own doubt that MCO was even real. So there are beings or 'processes' from other sources than the physical which assist us.


In Kriya yoga, otherwise known as the Yoga of Action, these things happen spontaneously. The correlations between wu wei and kriya is interesting.


All 'neat' and 'valuable' spiritual experiences can happen simply through surrender to a higher source, which has many names.

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Perhaps one could view the SFQ MCO practice as "laying the foundation" stage as proposed in Wang Mu's interpretation of the different stages of alchemy.


The goal of the stage of “laying the foundations” is replenishing the shortages in the vital functions of the body. Clearing the Function and Control vessels and clearing the three Barriers consists only in permeating these vessels with “postcelestial breath” (houtian qi), which circulates following a cyclical route and makes them clear. It should be noted that at this time the Medicine has not yet been formed: this practice is only done in preparation for the stage of “refining Essence and transmuting it into Breath.” Nevertheless, from a medical point of view, the circulation of breath and blood through unobstructed conduits is of great benefit for “nourishing life” (yangsheng) and for the treatment of illnesses.


From my understanding, he is saying that circulating Yin Qi and Blood across these pathways has some solid medical benefit, even before the Jing is full and the alchemy starts.
He also takes an even higher level look and discusses simple heat / cold.


Despite the different names, The MCO during laying the foundation consists only in enabling breath and heat to circulate, in order to open a path for the upcoming refining of the Medicine.


It feels like we are circulating a feeling of heat evenly throughout the body, so maybe it harmonizes Yin and Yang that way, and cleans the channels of gross blockages in preparation for the arrival of Yang Qi.
The MCO exists naturally as a way to sublimate sexual energy as TheTaoIsEasy stated, that's why it's there. But perhaps it can used in a variety of ways, and it can react differently depending on the input.
An image that comes to me is a dysfunctional merry-go-round that needs energy to start. The potential for the ride to be automated is there.
But we're free to play around on it before the repair man comes in. We're having fun, laughing and enjoying the ride and the health benefits. That seems to be what Wang Mu is saying, and what the SFQ is doing, is it not ?
Edited by Sebastian

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Put another way, the mind and energy must move together, without scatteredness, such that the experience of the energy and the experiencer are One. In daily life, our energy and minds are constantly moving in opposite directions.


This was very very helpful.


As a result of this post, I used "inner vision" almost like I am the energy ball moving around in my body from point to point. It has made the practice much deeper almost immediately. I feel like the mind and qi are moving more or less together now. Before the mind and qi were doing different things, the mind was visualizing and getting drowsy.


Seriously cool. Almost as exciting as the Magic School Bus, haha.



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