the strength of martial arts weapons?

[mewtwo]

So I was showing someone a form and tried some moves with them i have a dull machete and they had a wooden cane. we hit the two together. the cane got lots of dings. I was surprised that it did we weren't even hitting that hard. This isn't the first time I have had wooden weapons break from hitting the ground or simulated targets before. I also have had the cloth on tai chi fans rip from opening and closing them too many times.

 

So i was wondering what is your guyses experience with weapons breaking in practice?

 

Also if you have any suggestions on toughening weapons up or if you know certain stick types that dont break as easily and such.

[Nungali]

I saw a demo once, the guy went to do a sword cut (metal blade) he jerked it up and the blade flew out of the handle and somersaulted back into the spectators.

 

Some are for waving in the air, some are for hanging on the wall. Real training ones look different and are usually adapted or strengthened. Kama are notorious for breaking at the shaft blade ... even with a real one it is a light shap defecting weapon; its structure isnt designed to catch a hard blow at that point (but people try).

 

Those rattan staffs ? Forget it, you can just smash through them with a good bo.

 

Same with a bokken ; there are two ways to look at it, one as a wooden sword, a weapon in its own right with specific usages and other as a replacement for a live sword (but, of course it can break instead of cut through if you try to do that).

 

A bokken, bo and jo should be of the right type of wood (as strong and as non-brittle as you can have) and be hammered all over with another piece of wood so all the little tiny dents make a patina and eventually get a smooth surface of compressed wood - it takes time and care. Also oiling and other care will stop the initial splits and weakening. Even so they need to be constantly checked and replaced.

 

DO NOT just pick up a weapon and think its ready to go or safe to use.

 

[GrandmasterP]

Rattan Lathi

( Bamboo Eskrima sticks)

In UK you can buy those online from Playwell MA Supplies.

They sell edged weapons too and all at keen prices.

Excellent firm they are major Dojo kit suppliers , friendly and prompt service with no quibble returns if any issues.

Well Worth checking out.

 

https://www.playwell.co.uk/

Edited August 9, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[thelerner]

I used to collect bokken (Japanese wooden swords). Doing contact forms is destructive. After seeing dents and cracks on nice pieces I came to the realization if you have nice training weapons use them only for non contact. I have nice hickory bokken and Jo (short staff) that are a great for contact because they're an ideal combination of hard yet flexibility. That's why they've been the wood of choice for axe handles for centuries.

 

Nungali's right, wooden weapons need oiling and maybe a light sanding every now and then. I've seen cheap bokken look fantastic after sanding off dark varnish and a good oiling. Though I've seen old Jo's that after decades of use have been so sanded and oiled by continually sliding through hands that they've become superb weapons.

[Nungali]

I saw some photos of Mr Nishihira's weapons (he didnt seem to ever do weaponry), they were the training weapons (contact) given to him by Hohan Soken ( as proof of being the new Master of the family 'Sieto' - Matsamura tradition).

 

Pretty cool and not what one would expect - highly modified for practicality (eg. the kama blades and interior of shaft are all one piece of metal, the handles are two pieces of wood attached to the outside of the metal shaft, like the way they are on a machette) .

 

There are pretty significant considering who they came from; Mr Sokken is inheritor of family tradition going back to Bushi Matsamura (another Soken) , possibly the original bona-fide master of Karate and personal body guard to the last 3 Okinawan kings. Hohan Soken is listed in the Guinness Book of records as the officially last born Samurai.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohan_S%C5%8Dken

 

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=426

 

[ Just to defray any confusion from those that have read my previous past weapons and MA posts ( like how did I learn weaponry if Mr Nishihira didnt teach it ) ; Hohan Soken was the teacher of empty hand and weaponry arts to Ted Lange, ( a US veteran who made friends with and trained under Hohan Soken for years) Ted came and taught in Australia and taught my teacher. Later Hohan Soken passed on to Mr Nishihira ... who we all accepted as the new master of the style (others claimed it but they were not his nephew, and didnt inherit the training weapons and family swords .... Mr Nishihira never seemed bothered by that, nor started a dojo nor a world wide string of 'Shorin-Ryu' schools. He trained in his house, in a singlet and rolled up pants. But Masters from all over the world came there to meet and train with him. Including the famous Patrick McCarthy - who rather amused Mr Nishihira by getting wedged under a table after he got thrown across the room after asking to see a technique demonstrated ... apparently they managed to 'unstick him' ) . ]

 

Oooo ... thats all 'old school' now !

 

here is some 'new school' ;

 

 

 

 

Oh dear O dear ....... O dear

Edited August 10, 2014 by Nungali

[Nungali]

I used to collect bokken (Japanese wooden swords). Doing contact forms is destructive. After seeing dents and cracks on nice pieces I came to the realization if you have nice training weapons use them only for non contact. I have nice hickory bokken and Jo (short staff) that are a great for contact because they're an ideal combination of hard yet flexibility. That's why they've been the wood of choice for axe handles for centuries.

 

Nungali's right, wooden weapons need oiling and maybe a light sanding every now and then. I've seen cheap bokken look fantastic after sanding off dark varnish and a good oiling. Though I've seen old Jo's that after decades of use have been so sanded and oiled by continually sliding through hands that they've become superb weapons.

 

Obvious but ..... I forgot to mention

 

When you buy a new one pick the best one from the rack / box ... check the grain in the wood and its directions and pattern ... some bad ones get through. Thats why I prefer NOT to buy on line ones.

 

Also, if they do break due to grain, it can leave a spear point !

Edited August 10, 2014 by Nungali

[Nungali]

 

Too small ... cant find a more moden pic of them

 

Here is Mr Nishihira's in his 'dojo' - note freezers ... he used to run a catering business (and if you went there to train, you better have expected to spend a lot of time helping to prepare and package sushi . .... or you might get thrown into that sound equipment in the background ) .

 

Edited August 10, 2014 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Now THIS is one strong sword !