Cameron

Anyone into strength training?

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Personally, I find reasonable weight training to be a good supplement to my Taiji training. Surely, it's a little heavier on the physical side but I don't think it's detrimental to my Chi. Overall fitness will actually enhance your Chi.

 

I like to visualize Chi flowing through my limbs and body when lifting weights. According to Jwing Ming Yang, it could be called Hard Qigong. If you like to think of yourself as a powerful martial artist but you have muscles like Mickey Mouse, you are probably fooling yourself.

 

However, build up slowly when endeavouring to regain (supersede?) your old form. If you are in your 40s and rush back to the same heavy weights you were lifting in your 20s years, it probably won't do you any good.

 

Body weight exercises are useful, too. They won't increase muscle strength as much as weight training but they are good for your overall fitness in several ways. It might be best to intermix the two. Kettlebells are interesting, too; I haven't worked out with them so far but I am planning to try them out.

in my late teens through early twenties I did hard karate - goju Ryu. We did mainly free hand training - hundreds of push ups, squats, Russian sit-ups, barrel walks, etc. and that was just warm ups. Then we'd do drills - punches, kicks, blocks, chops etc, then free sparring. I didn't find any thing more intense than that. In the prime, my 200+ lb friend would push me full on and bounce back. I weighed a puny 150 lbs...

None of this involved weight training. In fact my sensei would tell us to avoid weights because bulked up muscles slow our reflexes down. With internal arts it's even more critical, IMHO. If you are building up strength you are losing qi sensitivity.

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in my late teens through early twenties I did hard karate - goju Ryu. We did mainly free hand training - hundreds of push ups, squats, Russian sit-ups, barrel walks, etc. and that was just warm ups. Then we'd do drills - punches, kicks, blocks, chops etc, then free sparring. I didn't find any thing more intense than that. In the prime, my 200+ lb friend would push me full on and bounce back. I weighed a puny 150 lbs...

None of this involved weight training. In fact my sensei would tell us to avoid weights because bulked up muscles slow our reflexes down. With internal arts it's even more critical, IMHO. If you are building up strength you are losing qi sensitivity.

 

I trained with traditional free weights for some years as a teen, but shortly after I found Kung Fu, I realized some of the shortfalls of bulking up: weakness at the extension of my muscular actions and lack of flexibility.

 

Switching to body weight lifting maximized strength through the full range of motion and lays a foundation for life long strength. Strength within the fell extension of the muscle action does not impede qi flow in my experience.

 

I don't want to sacrifice either, but I value flexibility over strength.

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No need bulking up unless you plan to perform with Arnold.

 

Free weights is for increasing/maintaining strength and endurence. Need to impress the ladies? Carry a lot of money around with you.

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You got that right.

Never ceases to amaze me the stunning ladies those weedy little rich dudes seem to be able to attract.

Must be their personality.

' Mrs Merton' ( comedienne and TV interviewer) once asked Debbie McGee ( stunning)...

" What was it that first attracted you to the millionaire Paul Daniels?"

( a wizened and elderly TV magician)

:)

Edited by GrandmasterP
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in my late teens through early twenties I did hard karate - goju Ryu. We did mainly free hand training - hundreds of push ups, squats, Russian sit-ups, barrel walks, etc. and that was just warm ups. Then we'd do drills - punches, kicks, blocks, chops etc, then free sparring. I didn't find any thing more intense than that. In the prime, my 200+ lb friend would push me full on and bounce back. I weighed a puny 150 lbs...

None of this involved weight training. In fact my sensei would tell us to avoid weights because bulked up muscles slow our reflexes down. With internal arts it's even more critical, IMHO. If you are building up strength you are losing qi sensitivity.

I was undergoing the kind of training you are describing in my Kyokushinkai and Shotokan years. Yes, it contributed to my overall fitness. But it was not before I took doing weight training that my techniques really started to rock.

 

If scientific weight training would slow one's reflexes down, why would top athletes in virtually all sports do it? Most of all, why would top martial artists like Bruce Lee join them? This kind of training should be augmented with exercises for speed, flexibility, endurance, no doubt. If you experience that it makes you slower then you are doing something wrong, imho. You may be overtraining, or simply neglecting your MA training.

 

Talking specifically about weight training benefits for internal martial artists, I think that depends on your goals. If you are doing Taiji as a health exercise/meditation/movement art (which most practitioners seem to be satisfied with), then maybe you don't need anything else. If you are interested in the martial aspects as well, training with weights and other exercises would be recommendable.

 

Probably the most comprehensive book on the topic I have ever seen is Xtreme Training: The Fighter's Ultimate Fitness Manual by Randy Couture. Lots of great flexibility, speed, endurance, and strength exercises (with and without weights) to be found there.

 

I also recommend Lilly Chou's books The Martial Artist's Book of Yoga, and The Anatomy of Martial Arts.

 

Dwai, btw, I have just found my copy of the Taiji Classics! :) I will probably post some comments on the Fa Jin thread shortly.

 

Michael

Edited by Michael Sternbach
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Thanks for the feedback. I tend to switch back and forth between kettlebell training and bodyweight. As they seem to develop different systems of strength. My first love was Aikido(Japanese internal martial art) but after several knee surgeries years ago just can't risk the wear and tear/trauma to the knee from that MA anymore.

 

What are your favorite exercises? For myself, kettlebell swings and hindu(bodyweight) squats have yielded the most bang for the buck.

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Thanks for the feedback. I tend to switch back and forth between kettlebell training and bodyweight. As they seem to develop different systems of strength. My first love was Aikido(Japanese internal martial art) but after several knee surgeries years ago just can't risk the wear and tear/trauma to the knee from that MA anymore.

 

What are your favorite exercises? For myself, kettlebell swings and hindu(bodyweight) squats have yielded the most bang for the buck.

The main problem with Aikido in this regard being the typical posture with the front foot turned out, especially when practising irmi-tenkan, imo.

 

If you have to go really easy on some of your joints, you may want to use isometrics (no, no, DON'T confuse with plyometrics - jumping squats and stuff like that! Would probably mostly benefit your surgeon).

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What are your favorite exercises? For myself, kettlebell swings and hindu(bodyweight) squats have yielded the most bang for the buck.

 

 

Cameron,

 

What benifits have you seen from the hindu squats? I dabbled with them, and the hindu pushups too, but not enough to know what they might do for me if I started a serious program. Would like to actually build muscle rather than just endurance though at this point anything that gets me off the couch is a step in the right direction.

 

Liminal

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I think this is the right thread for me to ask a question about Chi. May I take this opportunity to have anyone who wish to conduct a Chi test.

1. Please release all the breath and try to lift some weights and tell me what happened.

2. Please take a deep breath and hold, then lift some weights. And what happened....???

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Hindu squats are good for leg strength. I did them on and off for years. Best thing would b just try them out for yourself and see how you feel.

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I used to workout on weight machines. I avoided free weights because I have a slightly herniated disc which I didnt want to make worse. I bulked up pretty quick anx it helped to boost my confidence but couple years in I started getting sharp chest pains and I intuitively knew it was from the weights. I decided to start over first using isometric as taught by John Peterson who also uses hindu pushups and squats and though I didn't get big liks with weights I did get stronger. Currently im doing cont conditioning which although is slow is very good especially for rehabilitation. Its done wonders for my back and knees

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I think this is the right thread for me to ask a question about Chi. May I take this opportunity to have anyone who wish to conduct a Chi test.

 

1. Please release all the breath and try to lift some weights and tell me what happened.

 

2. Please take a deep breath and hold, then lift some weights. And what happened....???

Here you are speaking of Chi = Breath.

 

Yes, in 1. you are not feeding the muscles oxygen but in 2. you are. A world of difference.

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Here you are speaking of Chi = Breath.

 

Yes, in 1. you are not feeding the muscles oxygen but in 2. you are. A world of difference.

 

 

 

Breath holding is essential especially when the weight gets heavy. check out Pavel Tsatsoulines work for in depth explanations on this.

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I trained with traditional free weights for some years as a teen, but shortly after I found Kung Fu, I realized some of the shortfalls of bulking up: weakness at the extension of my muscular actions and lack of flexibility.

 

Switching to body weight lifting maximized strength through the full range of motion and lays a foundation for life long strength. Strength within the fell extension of the muscle action does not impede qi flow in my experience.

 

I don't want to sacrifice either, but I value flexibility over strength.

Hi Silent Thunder,

 

What do you mean by body weight training? Is it the same as free-hand training? Ie push ups, chin ups etc?

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I was undergoing the kind of training you are describing in my Kyokushinkai and Shotokan years. Yes, it contributed to my overall fitness. But it was not before I took doing weight training that my techniques really started to rock.

 

If scientific weight training would slow one's reflexes down, why would top athletes in virtually all sports do it? Most of all, why would top martial artists like Bruce Lee join them? This kind of training should be augmented with exercises for speed, flexibility, endurance, no doubt. If you experience that it makes you slower then you are doing something wrong, imho. You may be overtraining, or simply neglecting your MA training.

 

Talking specifically about weight training benefits for internal martial artists, I think that depends on your goals. If you are doing Taiji as a health exercise/meditation/movement art (which most practitioners seem to be satisfied with), then maybe you don't need anything else. If you are interested in the martial aspects as well, training with weights and other exercises would be recommendable.

 

Probably the most comprehensive book on the topic I have ever seen is Xtreme Training: The Fighter's Ultimate Fitness Manual by Randy Couture. Lots of great flexibility, speed, endurance, and strength exercises (with and without weights) to be found there.

 

I also recommend Lilly Chou's books The Martial Artist's Book of Yoga, and The Anatomy of Martial Arts.

 

Dwai, btw, I have just found my copy of the Taiji Classics! :) I will probably post some comments on the Fa Jin thread shortly.

 

Michael

The type of Tai Chi I am learning doesn't require physical "strength". It is all in the Jin, which most certainly is not physical strength. :)

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The type of Tai Chi I am learning doesn't require physical "strength". It is all in the Jin, which most certainly is not physical strength. :)

I am of the same. My Tai Chi is for flexibility and body/mind coordination. (I do practice Two Sword Tai Chi but this requires strength in only the arms, wrists, and hands for holding the swords properly.

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I am of the same. My Tai Chi is for flexibility and body/mind coordination. (I do practice Two Sword Tai Chi but this requires strength in only the arms, wrists, and hands for holding the swords properly.

Marblehead,

 

I agree that you don't have to do physical strength training necessarily if all you want to get out of your Taiji training is flexibility and body/mind coordination. Many practitioners are not even aware of the "martial" in this martial art, or don't care about it. Personally, I would feel that I'm missing out something essential. But all of that is another story, really.

 

I was doing Aikido for a number of years. As most of you may know, this is a Japanese internal art. It actually has some similarities with Bagua. A lot of the art is based on proper application of physics and yes, Ki but some degree of muscular strength is of advantage, nonetheless.

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Marblehead,

 

I agree that you don't have to do physical strength training necessarily if all you want to get out of your Taiji training is flexibility and body/mind coordination. Many practitioners are not even aware of the "martial" in this martial art, or don't care about it. Personally, I would feel that I'm missing out something essential. But all of that is another story, really.

 

I was doing Aikido for a number of years. As most of you may know, this is a Japanese internal art. It actually has some similarities with Bagua. A lot of the art is based on proper application of physics and yes, Ki but some degree of muscular strength is of advantage, nonetheless.

Oh, I do the strength part with the free weights when I need to build myself back up. But they are not a part of my Tai Chi exercising.

 

I'm too old to be involved in the "martial" training anymore. And I don't go places where I might have to physically defend myself. I do need to maintain my strength, flexibility and coordination for working around my property though. I don't anticipate ever needing to run anyone through with one of my swords.

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Breath holding is essential especially when the weight gets heavy. check out Pavel Tsatsoulines work for in depth explanations on this.

Oh, I know about breath holding from when I am doing my bench presses. That exercise requires breath control.

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Here you are speaking of Chi = Breath.

 

Yes, in 1. you are not feeding the muscles oxygen but in 2. you are. A world of difference.

 

Yes, this is where the metabolic formula kicks in:

Glucose + Oxygen => H2O + CO2 + Heat + Energy(ATP)

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