Pre-Heaven Power of Pan Yue

[Neijia]

I referenced this video, of master Wei Chung Lin on the rooting thread, which has a few clips demonstrating his Xingyi, Bagua, and Taiji and some Fa-jing.

 

But then there is his master Pan Yue.

 

Check out the Fa-jing on this guy.

Edited August 26, 2007 by Neijia

[Buddy]

Pan Yue is VERY controversial on Taiwan. He started out as a Gao guy, but "invented" his own stuff.

It's not terribly profound from a baguazhang perspective. YMMV.

 

Buddy

[Spectrum]

Nice video. Notice how the second time he touches hands w/ the lauchee he loads his frame w/ energy by changing his directions from the first time. (he springs him high instead of low) He still uses the same discharge to launch him. Interesting to see him demoing while his students are doing standing practice.

 

Spectrum

 

Pan Yue is VERY controversial on Taiwan. He started out as a Gao guy, but "invented" his own stuff.

It's not terribly profound from a baguazhang perspective. YMMV.

 

Buddy

 

Almost reminds me of the Yi Quan of Sifu Wangs tradition.

[Neijia]

Pan Yue is VERY controversial on Taiwan. He started out as a Gao guy, but "invented" his own stuff.

It's not terribly profound from a baguazhang perspective. YMMV.

 

Buddy

 

 

Profound or not, the power generation is incredible. Something else about it is that the method is relatively easy to learn in comparison to the dan tien breathing, and just as soft a jin. Ultimately, I suppose, it relies heavily on a teacher's ability and willingness to teach.

[Buddy]

I didn't find it incredible. His students set up a cooperative frame and then it's easy to pop the frame.

How useful is it against an uncooperative opponent? Or someone a limp frame? He couldn't do it against either.

[agharta]

In China you could find plenty of people practicing in the park in the mornings in Beijing or other cities who do this better. He's very average compared to that crowd.

[Neijia]

I didn't find it incredible. His students set up a cooperative frame and then it's easy to pop the frame.

How useful is it against an uncooperative opponent? Or someone a limp frame? He couldn't do it against either.

I understand what you are saying about an opponent neutralizing, or the uselessness of a training technique as an actual fighting application. IMHO, however, I think that applying that logic towards these videos is kind of like saying that a form is used the way that it is shown or demonstrated. Or that tools such as pushhands or circle walking have no value because of the tactical unlikeness that someone trying to murder you is going to try to push hands or walk the circle, so why bother to learn it?

These exercises, like push hands and circle walking, are intended to train different faculties and develop sensitivity. In this case, learning how to create the physiological responses needed to work the technique.

 

What is incredible to me is the method of the power generation, not the jin itself.

 

In China you could find plenty of people practicing in the park in the mornings in Beijing or other cities who do this better. He's very average compared to that crowd.

I haven't to been to the park in Beijing, much less China, but you make it sound like they must be doing some Dragon Ball Z shit over there.

Edited August 30, 2007 by Neijia

[Spectrum]

I didn't find it incredible. His students set up a cooperative frame and then it's easy to pop the frame.

How useful is it against an uncooperative opponent? Or someone a limp frame? He couldn't do it against either.

 

Buddy- Could you please show us some movement art or individual artists that you find incredible or that you admire? -Spectrum

 

TTC #77:

 

He who knows others is clever

He who knows himself has discernment

He who overcomes others has force;

He who overcomes himself has stregth.

He who knows contentment is rich;

He who perseveres in action has purpose.

Not to lost ones station is to endure;

Not to be forgotten when dead is long lived.

 

 

 

How useful is it against an uncooperative opponent? Or someone a limp frame? He couldn't do it against either.

 

I wonder if he could do it against himself.

[steve]

I didn't find it incredible. His students set up a cooperative frame and then it's easy to pop the frame.

How useful is it against an uncooperative opponent? Or someone a limp frame? He couldn't do it against either.

I agree with Buddy. It's easy to push an opponent who is rigid or coming in with force - it looks good to an audience and does demonstrate good timing and rooting. Not so easy when the opponent yields. Fajin is short and explosive, and, when done right, is very hard to yield or neutralize. You can't really see the effect as much as feel it when you're on the receiving end. It penetrates. It does damage inside but doesn't necessarily look impressive from the outside. When you watch him closely, he's pushing out and up and his hands are moving a good distance. An is a downward press, not an upward push, and it's very short with a sinking of the wrists - this video is a parlor trick and lot's of people use it to demonstrate their "internal power." He may have a very high level of skill, I don't mean to denigrate his ability, but pushing a cooperative student in this way is not the way to demonstrate it.

[Buddy]

"Buddy- Could you please show us some movement art or individual artists that you find incredible or that you admire? -Spectrum"

 

Sorry, no. Incredible means (from Webster) "too extraordinary and improbable to be believed."

I can do this thing quite readily with my students. They can do it too. But since you want to see something, here's my teacher who is light years ahead of Pan (remember Pan was once a Gao bagua guy)

You won't find it incredible but to work with Luo in person is ethereal. He is scary-good.

From our post-heaven (based on the third palm change:

The first four of our pre-heaven:

Xingyi Rooster:

 

Cheers,

Buddy

[Spectrum]

"How useful is it against an uncooperative opponent? Or someone a limp frame? He couldn't do it against either."

 

"Not so easy when the opponent yields."

 

These are all interesting statements about perceived conflict and movement.

 

You won't find it incredible

 

I find some of the most mundane things unbelievable. You know when I see two higher level people push hands it just doesn't really look like much.

 

Thanks for sharing your videos. I've looked at a couple and I'm not seeing the uncooperative opponents you were talking about? Good movement though IMHO. Very smooth coordinations of upper and lower.

 

There are many ways to stop humans from hurting each other.

 

Spectrum

Edited August 31, 2007 by Spectrum

[steve]

Nice clips Buddy - I particularly like the Xian Tian changes.