How the Buddha Became Enlightened.

[Tibetan_Ice]

...

Trial and error is not an efficient or expedient method for spiritual practice, IMO.

Human life is too rare and far too short.

Human life is not rare at all. That's just what they say to motivate you. There are billions/infinite universes and countless beings. And although it seems like this life is short, once you realize that you've had many lifetimes or even realize the true nature of reality, the concept of you living a life dissolves away.

 

Trial and error. It's a real teacher. The other day I tried three hours of breath meditation, for two days in a row, in three separate sittings each day. For the first session I put heavy emphasis on the out breath and letting go. For the second and third sessions, I put emphasis on loving the breath from the heart. I saw no nimittas during the sessions, but on the first night I was so relaxed and energized that when I went to bed I could not sleep. I didn't mind all that much because I didn't have to work the next day. So I laid in bed and noticed that my mind was very bright and even. Not allot happening. Then I turned over on my left side and enjoyed the cool sheets as my foot went sliding forward. Then I noticed that there was much light near my forehead so I moved my attention upwards towards the brow. I saw the most beautiful nimitta that I have seen in while. It looked just like the moon. Pearly white, perfectly round and it was shining just like a full moon. I was awestruck and not well prepared for it... I got to look at it for only a few seconds before it disappeared. Too much grasping..

 

However, the experience taught me that the proper breathing meditations during the day will help precipitate a calm at night, and when the mind is calm, the choice nimittas appear. (Really, I know all this stuff from before, from prior experiences, and I'm just bringing this up to emphasize the blessings of trial and error.)

 

On another note, a few days later, I was in the elevator at work and I had the strangest experience. I sort of swooned or experienced a "shift" while looking at the elevator wall and doors. The scene looked like it was a disjoint perception surrounded by white light. How can I explain? There was only a square slice of the scene in front which resembled a 3d picture. Above and below, to each side, there was only space filled with white light. When my perception moved, another squarish scene appeared and it was also surrounded by white light. At that point I realized that normal reality consists of 3d slices of perception which the mind then splices together to form an imaginary consistency complete with a linear time line. But in truth, it is not the case. I had the feeling or knowledge that I could slip into the space between the scenes, that I could just pick a scene, grasp at it with the mind, and that that would become the normal reality. I also realized that that is how the mystics transport themselves from one place to another, by just grasping the scene that they want to be in.

 

It is quite astounding that I would have this realization while going down in an elevator, but the experience has given me a new understanding of reality, how it appears to be comprised of 3d slices of appearances which the mind stitches together to create the illusion of continuity.

 

The whole effect lasted only a few minutes. It was really interesting. It really changed my understanding because I thought there would be empty dark space in between the slices, but now I know that there are bright white streams of light, like luminous threads, out of which the appearances appear. I'm now inclined to believe that we don't truly exist, not in the conventional sense...reality is just the perception or vision or sensual conglomerate that "something" is grasping at at the time.

 

Now I'm curious to know if anyone else has had a similar experience.. Or has even written about it...

 

 

Thanks for listening...

 

[steve]

Human life is not rare at all. That's just what they say to motivate you. There are billions/infinite universes and countless beings. And although it seems like this life is short, once you realize that you've had many lifetimes or even realize the true nature of reality, the concept of you living a life dissolves away.

 

Trial and error. It's a real teacher. The other day I tried three hours of breath meditation, for two days in a row, in three separate sittings each day. For the first session I put heavy emphasis on the out breath and letting go. For the second and third sessions, I put emphasis on loving the breath from the heart. I saw no nimittas during the sessions, but on the first night I was so relaxed and energized that when I went to bed I could not sleep. I didn't mind all that much because I didn't have to work the next day. So I laid in bed and noticed that my mind was very bright and even. Not allot happening. Then I turned over on my left side and enjoyed the cool sheets as my foot went sliding forward. Then I noticed that there was much light near my forehead so I moved my attention upwards towards the brow. I saw the most beautiful nimitta that I have seen in while. It looked just like the moon. Pearly white, perfectly round and it was shining just like a full moon. I was awestruck and not well prepared for it... I got to look at it for only a few seconds before it disappeared. Too much grasping..

 

However, the experience taught me that the proper breathing meditations during the day will help precipitate a calm at night, and when the mind is calm, the choice nimittas appear. (Really, I know all this stuff from before, from prior experiences, and I'm just bringing this up to emphasize the blessings of trial and error.)

 

On another note, a few days later, I was in the elevator at work and I had the strangest experience. I sort of swooned or experienced a "shift" while looking at the elevator wall and doors. The scene looked like it was a disjoint perception surrounded by white light. How can I explain? There was only a square slice of the scene in front which resembled a 3d picture. Above and below, to each side, there was only space filled with white light. When my perception moved, another squarish scene appeared and it was also surrounded by white light. At that point I realized that normal reality consists of 3d slices of perception which the mind then splices together to form an imaginary consistency complete with a linear time line. But in truth, it is not the case. I had the feeling or knowledge that I could slip into the space between the scenes, that I could just pick a scene, grasp at it with the mind, and that that would become the normal reality. I also realized that that is how the mystics transport themselves from one place to another, by just grasping the scene that they want to be in.

 

It is quite astounding that I would have this realization while going down in an elevator, but the experience has given me a new understanding of reality, how it appears to be comprised of 3d slices of appearances which the mind stitches together to create the illusion of continuity.

 

The whole effect lasted only a few minutes. It was really interesting. It really changed my understanding because I thought there would be empty dark space in between the slices, but now I know that there are bright white streams of light, like luminous threads, out of which the appearances appear. I'm now inclined to believe that we don't truly exist, not in the conventional sense...reality is just the perception or vision or sensual conglomerate that "something" is grasping at at the time.

 

Now I'm curious to know if anyone else has had a similar experience.. Or has even written about it...

 

 

Thanks for listening...

 

 

Very glad to hear that you are enjoying and have confidence in your chosen path.

I wish you blessings and success.

 

_/\_

[LAOLONG]

was the Buddha enlighten

was the Buddha not enlighten

is this a zen koan

[GrandmasterP]

was the Buddha enlighten

was the Buddha not enlighten

is this a zen koan

No

 

( but 'No' is)

Edited May 2, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Tibetan_Ice]

Well, I have to say... In one of these threads, somebody said that the Olds never completed the thogal visions. Now, I am inclined to believe that it might be true. I just finished reviewing Wonders of the Natural Mind by Tenzin Wangyal, specifically his recount of his 49 day dark retreat. In it, TenZin recounts the visions that he saw, even has pictures of the visions in his book. The symbols, the thogal visions of circles appeared after week one!

 

 

Tenzin says that after the second week "the first forms starting to resemble concrete reality started to appear."

 

Here is one example...

 

 

Because the Olds never drew any concrete pictures similar to the ones Tenzin Wangyal describes after the second week of his dark retreat, one has to conclude that the Olds didn't even get past the equivalent of one weeks' worth of dark retreat. So, there you go.

 

More from Wonders of the natural mind..

 

 

 

[deci belle]

It is not seen.

 

There is no method of enlightenment.

 

One does not do this; not only does one not do this; it is not done. The accomplishment of the world-honored is not self.

 

There is no analysis. Comprehension of cessation is not comprehended— much less by oneself. Thought is Gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate. Just this bodhi svaha.

 

Cessation itself is awareness of selfless knowledge.

 

There is nothing whatsoever for you to get all excited about.

 

Stop splashing, fishy.

[Sunya]

 

Hi,

I'm so excited! I found a passage where the Buddha tells the story of how he became enlightened.

 

What I find exciting about it is that Buddha worked on obtaining his enlightenment. He worked with the Light and the Visions. Through trial and error, he gradually learned how to make the Light and the Visions remain. He learned how to penetrate the Light. The Light!!! (now I'm once again mad at AYP for parroting so many times that the Light is just scenery and should be ignored). Oh well..

 

I also ask myself, if Buddha got enlightened by working hard, analysing and finally determining the factors that caused the Light and the Visions to remain, then why isn't everyone using this method?

 

 

I think the clincher might be that in order to see the Light and Visions, one must have the "divine eye" developed sufficiently. Right now, I equate the 'divine eye' with the third eye. I get the visions and I see the Light. I just didn't realize that they are the key to enlightenment and that one has to learn, by themselves, exactly how to make them remain.

 

Perhaps I am lucky that I see the Light and the Visions, but then I have spent many years developing the third eye and if you'd ask me how it is done, I would simply say, location location location.. When you withdraw your consciousness starting from the area between the brow and then go back into the center of the head (after the body has fallen away), at a certain layer or frequency of consciousness, the visions appear. The area is about 1 1/2 inches behind the brow. Then, if you pull your attention back closer to the watcher, but not all the way to the watcher, that is where the intense bright light breaks through.

 

 

 

 

 

How are you getting all this from that passage? Nowhere does it say that the Buddha 'gradually learned how to make the light and the visions remain' This is the complete opposite of what the passage suggests. The light described is also not the light you're talking about. It's the nimitta, or sign, which precedes jhana or one pointed concentration. It is a mental phenomena correlated with the breath. If you want to learn more about nimitta, see this http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma/nimitta.html and this http://simplesuttas.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/jhana-wars-pt-6-the-great-nimitta-debate/ Also, you seem to be obsessing about visions and such, when the passage is clear that the Buddha realized the cause of the nimitta and visions by analyzing his experience. When it says "the knowledge and vision arose in me:" it does not mean that the knowledge and vision of forms arose. Vision in this context means seeing clearly. See this sutta: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.than.html Also, to penetrate the light (the nimitta) means to directly see, or realize the cause of, which is vipassana.

 

IMO you would really benefit from finding a teacher to guide you since you are mixing too many different ideas which are not very useful. If you are interested in jhana/vipassana meditation, a Theravada teacher can be of use. You can also contact Daniel Ingram directly for guidance on the Dharma Overground forum. He's an expert in both jhana and vipassana and is an authorizd teacher in the Mahasi Sayadaw lineage. If you're interested in Dzogchen, then it's best to find a teacher in a Dzogchen lineage. But learning from various passages and books and creating your own interpretations will only cause confusion.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Sunya

[Tibetan_Ice]

How are you getting all this from that passage? Nowhere does it say that the Buddha 'gradually learned how to make the light and the visions remain' This is the complete opposite of what the passage suggests. The light described is also not the light you're talking about. It's the nimitta, or sign, which precedes jhana or one pointed concentration. It is a mental phenomena correlated with the breath. If you want to learn more about nimitta, see this http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma/nimitta.html and this http://simplesuttas.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/jhana-wars-pt-6-the-great-nimitta-debate/ Also, you seem to be obsessing about visions and such, when the passage is clear that the Buddha realized the cause of the nimitta and visions by analyzing his experience. When it says "the knowledge and vision arose in me:" it does not mean that the knowledge and vision of forms arose. Vision in this context means seeing clearly. See this sutta: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.than.html Also, to penetrate the light (the nimitta) means to directly see, or realize the cause of, which is vipassana.

 

IMO you would really benefit from finding a teacher to guide you since you are mixing too many different ideas which are not very useful. If you are interested in jhana/vipassana meditation, a Theravada teacher can be of use. You can also contact Daniel Ingram directly for guidance on the Dharma Overground forum. He's an expert in both jhana and vipassana and is an authorizd teacher in the Mahasi Sayadaw lineage. If you're interested in Dzogchen, then it's best to find a teacher in a Dzogchen lineage. But learning from various passages and books and creating your own interpretations will only cause confusion.

Well, there are so many conginitive dissonant ideas in your post, that I may be once again just wasting my time talking to you.

 

First off, Buddha learned how to make the light and visions of form remain by, as you say "by analyzing his experience".

 

That is very clearly stated in the passage.

 

21 Anuruddhā, as I was dwelling diligent, ardent and resolute, I perceived light and vision of forms.

But again not long afterwards both the light and the vision of forms disappeared.

(6) Then, Anuruddhā, it occurred to me:

What now is the cause, what is the reason, that the light and the vision of forms disappeared?

 

 

and so on..

 

Secondly, the light I am talking about is the nimitta. Just because you state that it is not, does not mean that it is not. How would you know anyways? Can you get inside my head and realize the experiences that I have had?

 

I am very familiar with Nimittas, learning sign, counterpart sign. I have achieved some jhanas through consistent practice and learning. I have read the Vissudhimagga.

 

That link you quoted for learning about nimittas is just a piece of crap, written by a non-practitioner who has poor understanding of the factors and events. Radical interpretations of what Buddha really meant don't interest me. Just do the practices. It will all become clear. There should be a rule: " you have to practices for a few years before attempting to become a scholar". Especially prone to error are scholars who rely on translations of Tibetan texts into English and then try to establish their outrageous claims based on the English language.

 

I'm not interested in "the great jhana debate". I have my experiences to rely on, Nor am I interested in Daniel Ingram's teachings, or his emphasis on the dark night or noting.

 

To penetrate the light is not to realize the cause of the light. To penetrate the light means to actually submerge in the light (the moon, the sun, the very bright light.. etc). Once you realize that the cause of seeing the light, that which precipitates the lowering of veils, is 'continuous attention/awareness' and you work on that for a while, you come to realize that that is the procedure to establish the good solid nimitta (counterpart sign). Vispassana is a practice, it is not a cause (as you stated). You do not 'directly see vispassana', you see something. You see the light with great clarity. It is not seeing with the eyes, it is seeing with third-eye sight or from the very clear clean crisp space which lies above, near the crown in the center of the head.

 

Since you have accepted "having a teacher" as a necessity, I would say to you the following: Don't depend on a teacher. A teacher (unless they're enlightened or have developed their psychic powers) won't be able to realize your experiences nor advise you accordingly to your karma, level of intelligence or personal inclinations. It is you who has to understand the teachings, the experiences, the methods. You have to get there under your own steam, not on the coat tails of a teacher. Did Buddha have a teacher sitting there under the ficus tree when he got enlightened, or when he sat under the apple tree in the orchard when he was a child? There are very few developed teachers, teachers with abilities. There are not enough to go around. Don't rely on teachers, you could wait many eons. Better yet, develope your third eye and you will find many teachers (incompetent and adept) in the astral planes. Your best teacher is your own heart and your own experiences.

 

If you don't understand the topic, subject or have a propensity to let radical Buddhist interpretors steal your understanding, that is fine with me. But you really shouldn't push it on the rest of us.

 

In the meantime, I recommend reading:

 

"Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" - Ajahn Brahm

"Focused and Fearless" - Shaila Catherine

"The Attention Revolution" - Alan Wallace

"Wonders of the Natural Mind" - Tenzin Wangyal

 

Edited May 7, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[steve]

I know that I am guilty of standing my ground and being argumentative at times so I am including myself first and foremost in my criticism below.

 

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular but rather everyone, including myself, and I would like to make the following general comments:

It would be really encouraging and perhaps even beneficial if we were to find a way to discuss these matters in a collaborative and constructive manner.

Maybe we can actually learn something from each other rather than simply dig our heels in and try attempt to sway others to see the world the way we see it or denigrate them or their perspectives.

I'm probably just being unrealistic and naive but I see several very intelligent and knowledgable people getting together here but rather than growing as a team, we often tend to be divisive, dismissive, and defensive.

I think it's natural to feel that way when our ideas are challenged and it is a precious opportunity to practice!

 

So I'm going to appeal to all of us "Buddhists" to try and keep an open mind, pretend that we have not yet figured it all out or reached total enlightenment, and can actually learn something from each other. Otherwise, why are we even hear? Just to read our own posts?

 

I love all of you (well, at least in my boddhicitta practice, but I'm working on it!) guys and gals.

 

 

PS - please feel free to rub my face in it when you see me disregarding my own advice and if I come off as arrogant or presumptuous, that is not at all my intention

[Sunya]

TI,

 

 

 

Well, there are so many conginitive dissonant ideas in your post, that I may be once again just wasting my time talking to you.

 

This is just a friendly discussion. There's no need to take things personally.

Also, the quote you used does not say anything which supports what you say. You're reading too much into it based on your expectations and experiences, which is why I suggested a teacher, but of course it's your life and you don't have to listen to me.

"To penetrate the light is not to realize the cause of the light." It says so in the footnotes of the pdf you linked to, since you do not believe me.

 

Also from http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/19.7-Nimitta-piya.pdf

 

 

 

According to the Upakkilesa Sutta (M 128), when Anuruddha complains about his inability to

progress—when “light and the vision of forms”28 arise in his meditation, he simply let them cease—but

the Buddha advises that he “should penetrate the sign” (nimitta paivijjhitabba), that is, he should

know or master it.29 The Sutta’s Commentary explains this phrase as taṁ vo kāraṇaṁ jānitabbaṁ (“the

reason should be known”)

 

 

"To penetrate the light means to actually submerge in the light " Nowhere is this suggested in the sutta. If you disagree, please show the exact sentence where this is implied.

 

Vipassana is the practice of penetration, and in fact this language is used quite often by vipassana teachers, such as Mahasi Sayadaw. The goal is to penetrate the object, whether that's the nimitta or any other phenomena. To try to merge with the object is jhana meditation, but this in and of itself will not lead to liberation. Anyway, see this thread where Daniel Ingram talks about this http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/283675

 

 

That link you quoted for learning about nimittas is just a piece of crap, written by a non-practitioner who has poor understanding of the factors and events. Radical interpretations of what Buddha really meant don't interest me.

 

You're saying Venerable Bhikkhu Sona, abbot of the Birken Forest Monastery is a non-practitioner who is full of crap? And where is the radical interpretation?

 

 

Vispassana is a practice, it is not a cause (as you stated). You do not 'directly see vispassana', you see something. You see the light with great clarity. It is not seeing with the eyes, it is seeing with third-eye sight or from the very clear clean crisp space which lies above, near the crown in the center of the head.

 

I did not say vipassana is a cause. I said " to penetrate the light (the nimitta) means to directly see, or realize the cause of, which is vipassana." Vipassana is the practice of seeing the cause, gaining knowledge of, clearly seeing, etc. phenomena. You see the light with great clarity, but that's jhana. If you see the light and penetrate it, that means you see that the light is impermanent (made up of smaller moments of light which cause the next moment of light) and lacks inherency, thus penetrating the object to see its true nature. This is vipassana.

 

 

In the meantime, I recommend reading:

"Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" - Ajahn Brahm

"Focused and Fearless" - Shaila Catherine

"The Attention Revolution" - Alan Wallace

"Wonders of the Natural Mind" - Tenzin Wangyal

 

Yes, these are good books. If you're interested in vipassana, Shaila Catherine's Wisdom Wide and Deep is quite good.

 

In both Ajan Brahm's and Shaila Catherine's books, the nimitta is used as an object to enter jhana, so if that's your goal, that's great and I do not mean to discourage you. I am only saying that the Buddha did not gain enlightenment by focusing on the nimitta and entering jhana. That's all.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Sunya

[Tibetan_Ice]

TI,

 

 

 

 

This is just a friendly discussion. There's no need to take things personally.

 

Also, the quote you used does not say anything which supports what you say. You're reading too much into it based on your expectations and experiences, which is why I suggested a teacher, but of course it's your life and you don't have to listen to me.

 

"To penetrate the light is not to realize the cause of the light." It says so in the footnotes of the pdf you linked to, since you do not believe me.

 

Also from http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/19.7-Nimitta-piya.pdf

 

 

 

 

"To penetrate the light means to actually submerge in the light " Nowhere is this suggested in the sutta. If you disagree, please show the exact sentence where this is implied.

 

Vipassana is the practice of penetration, and in fact this language is used quite often by vipassana teachers, such as Mahasi Sayadaw. The goal is to penetrate the object, whether that's the nimitta or any other phenomena. To try to merge with the object is jhana meditation, but this in and of itself will not lead to liberation. Anyway, see this thread where Daniel Ingram talks about this http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/283675

 

 

 

You're saying Venerable Bhikkhu Sona, abbot of the Birken Forest Monastery is a non-practitioner who is full of crap? And where is the radical interpretation?

 

 

 

I did not say vipassana is a cause. I said " to penetrate the light (the nimitta) means to directly see, or realize the cause of, which is vipassana." Vipassana is the practice of seeing the cause, gaining knowledge of, clearly seeing, etc. phenomena. You see the light with great clarity, but that's jhana. If you see the light and penetrate it, that means you see that the light is impermanent (made up of smaller moments of light which cause the next moment of light) and lacks inherency, thus penetrating the object to see its true nature. This is vipassana.

 

 

 

Yes, these are good books. If you're interested in vipassana, Shaila Catherine's Wisdom Wide and Deep is quite good.

 

In both Ajan Brahm's and Shaila Catherine's books, the nimitta is used as an object to enter jhana, so if that's your goal, that's great and I do not mean to discourage you. I am only saying that the Buddha did not gain enlightenment by focusing on the nimitta and entering jhana. That's all.

To penetrate the nimitta is to master the nimitta, which not only involves realizing the cause but merging with the nimitta, by penetrating the center.

 

The nimitta is the doorway. You go inside it or it envelops you. You merge with it. Inside the first jhana is the second jhana. Again you go inside, you push through or are drawn inside.

 

It is not as you have stated, that part about the smaller moments of light. The mind does not move in jhana, therefore there is no realization or conceptual analysis after the first jhana. This is just what you learned from Daniel Ingram.

 

The cause of nimittas is the five senses falling away through stillness of body and one pointed concentration, which as it becomes more refined becomes more and more effortless. As the breath slows, the nimittas becomes brighter.

 

I have come to realize that practicing non grasping and no aversion, or by just remaining in the natural state, that nimittas and visions of forms appear all by themselves.

 

I have Shaila Catherine's other book too.

 

And yes, entering the nimitta and experiencing the jhanas is part of the path that Buddha used to gain enlightenment, he says so himself in the quote in the OP. If you want to believe otherwise, so be it. I really don't care.

 

 

[Tibetan_Ice]

It is not seen.

 

There is no method of enlightenment.

 

One does not do this; not only does one not do this; it is not done. The accomplishment of the world-honored is not self.

 

There is no analysis. Comprehension of cessation is not comprehended much less by oneself. Thought is Gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate. Just this bodhi svaha.

 

Cessation itself is awareness of selfless knowledge.

 

There is nothing whatsoever for you to get all excited about.

 

Stop splashing, fishy.

Dear self declared enlightened, narcissistic, deceptive person, who trolls the Buddhist forum and quotes Taoist nonsensical passages...

 

Since you take delight in insulting me (and other members of this forum) with your allusions to splashing fishy, the hookless hook and the stinking fish fry (in the topic you so aptly dragged into the main Taoist forum where you hoped to get more Taoist support), I can only assume that you are trolling once again, you master baiter you.

 

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/34644-clairvoyance-vs-immediate-knowledge/?p=544077

"Oh a new batch of mettlesome self-annointed dharma-slingers battling their wits out yawn."

 

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/34644-clairvoyance-vs-immediate-knowledge/?p=543894

" And the further afield this fish goes the longer it trails its own line, until you have a real whopper stinking in a fry-pan to suit."

 

I wonder why TTB puts up with your insults, your circular rhetoric and hasn't blessed us with absence of your presence...

[deci belle]

I lifted this from a thread I re-posted two years ago… perhaps it is appropriate here.

 

If you have read it recently, don't tell anyone.❤

 

 

 

People need to see that the realization of enlightened mind is independent of sudden illumination.

 

The nonoccurrence of illusion in one's own unborn awareness due to psychological nonpartiality of orientation in adapting to ordinary circumstances is all there is to enlightening being; this is buddhahood itself— one needn't wait for sudden enlightenment to walk in the footsteps of prior illuminates.

Sudden enlightenment is just a result of true harmony with complete reality. Complete reality has no need of enlightenment. Just be completely real, void of bias or inclination and the circumstantial result of impersonal awareness gone, gone, beyond gone …gone beyond— will come of its own accord.

This is working with the basic sane energy one was born with to see essence in the midst of mundanity directly in order to turn the killing energy of created cycles into a sea of jewels. The very bedrock will transport itself and oneself along with it, if one is authentically immovable in the essential quality of earth. What is required is stillness within one's own breadth of heart. Compassion isn't good or bad, just impersonally accepting and responding precisely according to circumstances.

One may be entitled to basic sanity, but accomplishing complete reality is a matter of matching circumstances in terms of essential nature which leaves nothing to be desired within or without one's own power of receptivity. Acquiescence is a matter of freedom, not submission to externals.

Tao is complete, yet creation is sexual. One who's lexicon is the Virtue of the Way uses essence to seek feeling. It is not the fault of the way or enlightening beings if all essence garners is insanity. Enlightening being expects nothing, so what is the norm for worldly beings does not affect enlightened virtue, which is to adapt to conditions as a matter of course.

This is not beyond one's own everyday ordinary aware being; it has never been so, nor will it ever be so.

[GrandmasterP]

We do miss you on the Zen forum deci.

Such wisdom, do pop back now and again.

Excellent post above.

Absolutely spot on.

Thusness just is.

Job jobbed.

 

 

:-)

Edited May 10, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[steve]

I lifted this from a thread I re-posted two years ago… perhaps it is appropriate here.

 

If you have read it recently, don't tell anyone.❤

 

 

 

People need to see that the realization of enlightened mind is independent of sudden illumination.

 

The nonoccurrence of illusion in one's own unborn awareness due to psychological nonpartiality of orientation in adapting to ordinary circumstances is all there is to enlightening being; this is buddhahood itself— one needn't wait for sudden enlightenment to walk in the footsteps of prior illuminates.

 

Sudden enlightenment is just a result of true harmony with complete reality. Complete reality has no need of enlightenment. Just be completely real, void of bias or inclination and the circumstantial result of impersonal awareness gone, gone, beyond gone …gone beyond— will come of its own accord.

 

This is working with the basic sane energy one was born with to see essence in the midst of mundanity directly in order to turn the killing energy of created cycles into a sea of jewels. The very bedrock will transport itself and oneself along with it, if one is authentically immovable in the essential quality of earth. What is required is stillness within one's own breadth of heart. Compassion isn't good or bad, just impersonally accepting and responding precisely according to circumstances.

 

One may be entitled to basic sanity, but accomplishing complete reality is a matter of matching circumstances in terms of essential nature which leaves nothing to be desired within or without one's own power of receptivity. Acquiescence is a matter of freedom, not submission to externals.

 

Tao is complete, yet creation is sexual. One who's lexicon is the Virtue of the Way uses essence to seek feeling. It is not the fault of the way or enlightening beings if all essence garners is insanity. Enlightening being expects nothing, so what is the norm for worldly beings does not affect enlightened virtue, which is to adapt to conditions as a matter of course.

 

This is not beyond one's own everyday ordinary aware being; it has never been so, nor will it ever be so.

 

Words rarely capture the truth of being,

Poetry may be recognized by it's subtle savor.

 

_/\_

[Tibetan_Ice]

We do miss you on the Zen forum deci.

Such wisdom, do pop back now and again.

Excellent post above.

Absolutely spot on.

Thusness just is.

Job jobbed.

 

 

:-)

GMP,

 

I think you nailed it.

What Deci wrote, in all his intellectualism, is a form of impure zen koan.

Yes it belongs somewhere else but not in the Zen forum. There are much more sophisticated masters there with better writing skills.

 

Steve, I would call this poetry:

 

The Intellectual Quest

The intellectual quest is exquisite like pearls and coral,

But it is not the same as the spiritual quest.

The spiritual quest is on another level altogether,

Spiritual wine has a subtler taste.

The intellect and the senses investigate cause and effect.

The spiritual seeker surrenders to the wonder.

- Rumi

 

Or this:

 

The Beauty of the Heart

 

The beauty of the heart

is the lasting beauty:

its lips give to drink

of the water of life.

 

Truly it is the water,

that which pours,

and the one who drinks.

 

All three become one when

your talisman is shattered.

That oneness you cant know

by reasoning.

 

 

 

- Rumi, From: Mathnawi II, 716-718

[Tibetan_Ice]

Spirit sees nothing to criticize

 

The fault is in the blamer

Spirit sees nothing to criticize

- Rumi

[GrandmasterP]

You got that right TI.

Some real old stars write over there on ZFI.

There's a real life Dharma Bum ( " Japhey") still alive and writing pops in there now and again plus at least one Pulitzer Prize winner.

Jimmy Yu 'too', some big hitters for sure.

They do let us lesser mortals have a say too though.

Nice folks.

 

 

(Deci is a guy now?)

Edited May 10, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

...

 

 

(Deci is a guy now?)

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24971-about-me/?p=544544

 

Saw him in a vision.. Did a search.. I think he is a waiter.. Likes to poke people in the eye...

[GrandmasterP]

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24971-about-me/?p=544544

Saw him in a vision.. Did a search.. I think he is a waiter.. Likes to poke people in the eye...

 

Could be I suppose.

Whatever.

Gender is performative.

 

:-)

[deci belle]

They might mind when my six white horses dooz poops and raise some dusts!! haha!!

 

I got some nice welcomes there and a passive aggressive pass from chrisd…

 

Their student-teachers need the practice~ hehe. I got an email (not just a PM), from some one saying I can't respond to questions…

 

eh… God knows I don't need the practice!

 

Hhahhahhahahhahhaa!!! evidently I poked vision-boy a good one!! hahahaa!! Ya can't see shit TI!! hahahaaa!! A fcukin waiter? I wait, yup— damn right… waitin ta die in front of this 100 kilo full-dress Panavision cAmeRa!! Wanna tip— (º )( º)?

 

yer can'ts has juss ONE!! ahhahhahaa!!

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: add some sasses

Edited May 10, 2014 by deci belle

[GrandmasterP]

Well you are missed.

Pop in any time.

You leaven the 'lump'.

 

:-)

Edited May 10, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[deci belle]

mmmmm-k…❤

[steve]

GMP,

 

I think you nailed it.

What Deci wrote, in all his intellectualism, is a form of impure zen koan.

Yes it belongs somewhere else but not in the Zen forum. There are much more sophisticated masters there with better writing skills.

 

Steve, I would call this poetry:

 

The Intellectual Quest

The intellectual quest is exquisite like pearls and coral,

But it is not the same as the spiritual quest.

The spiritual quest is on another level altogether,

Spiritual wine has a subtler taste.

The intellect and the senses investigate cause and effect.

The spiritual seeker surrenders to the wonder.

- Rumi

 

Or this:

 

The Beauty of the Heart

 

The beauty of the heart

is the lasting beauty:

its lips give to drink

of the water of life.

 

Truly it is the water,

that which pours,

and the one who drinks.

 

All three become one when

your talisman is shattered.

That oneness you cant know

by reasoning.

 

 

 

- Rumi, From: Mathnawi II, 716-718

 

I do enjoy Rumi, although these two examples wouldn't make my top 10…

Different strokes, y'know.

[deci belle]

yawn… vision-boy trying to arrive at a consensus, hmmmmm? Perhaps this one could actually develop some cojones and stand on his own fins before attempting to make a beachhead and conquer ultima thule?

 

Wasn't it two weeks ago you weren't even sure what constituted grasping? Now you're discriminating what's real zen?

 

Learn to breath air first, dear.