flowing hands

new verses of the DDJ

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I'd say theyre All good answers and considerations... Whew ! Im glad thats all settled. :)

Yes, I will remain silent regarding this now.

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Dawei & SFH,

 

 

Thank you for sharing your perspectives. I will have to look deeper into Taoist texts. I had previously assumed that the Tao was the "nothingness" that the one emerged from. That the Tao was basically the same as the Buddhist concept of emptiness. But with your descriptions, nothingness would match to emptiness.

 

Also, with Dawei's descriptions, it would seem that the Tao would be an inseparable aspect of the one. Kind of like a primal desire or potential to be manifest.

 

Thanks,

Jeff

Edited by Jeff

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Also, with Dawei's descriptions, it would seem that the Tao would be an inseparable aspect of the one. Kind of like a primal desire or potential to be manifest.

 

That is an interesting way of putting it. Dao is the manifesting impulse/potential, which ties in some ways to "De" as the ultimate efficacious power/capacity/potential inherent aspect. After all, I think it correct to think that Dao and De cannot be separated.

 

The confusion also seems to come from so many varying descriptions; Dao, One (sometimes Yi and sometimes Tai Yi), Tai Ji, HengXian, Wuji, Emptiness, Nothingness are at times considered synonymous. I think this is because from an academic point of view, we can only explore the limits of the mind and writings. To get beyond this, as you know, will require getting beyond mind.

 

But the common themes across the texts cannot be ignored.

 

Another common picture is that Dao as the melting/fire pot for all things; interesting ancient usage given alchemy is usually linked to external chemical transformations but clearly the ancients had an internal picture based on Dao.

 

I could say more but this may all be detracting from the OP's thread.

 

(If the OP wanted, this discussion aspect could be split)

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86

 

The ancient shaman would take up the drum and lead the people into sacred dance.

 

When the shaman's drum was abandoned, people sought riches and material possessions.

 

So I say, let the shaman take up her drum and headdress.

 

 

 

The mentioning of shamanism is the violation of the concept of Wu Wei. The TTC is an atheist document because Lao Zi is an atheist and a naturalist. Shamanism must be considered an outside influence of the TTC.

Edited by ChiDragon

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The mentioning of shamanism is the violation of the concept of Wu Wei. The TTC is an atheist document because Lao Zi is an atheist and a naturalist. Shamanism must be considered an outside influence of the TTC.

This of course is your assumption and shamanism doesn't violate wu wei at all!

How on Earth can it be a athiest document???

Edited by flowing hands

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This of course is your assumption and shamanism doesn't violate wu wei at all!

How on Earth can it be a athiest document???

That is not my assumption. If you really understand the classic text of the TTC, I bet you will not find a phrase that supports your claim.

 

Do you have a good reason why shamanism doesn't violate wu wei at all....??? What is your definition of Wu Wei as compared to the definition in the TTC...???

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That is not my assumption. If you really understand the classic text of the TTC, I bet you will not find a phrase that supports your claim.

 

Do you have a good reason why shamanism doesn't violate wu wei at all....??? What is your definition of Wu Wei as compared to the definition in the TTC...???

I've had this same question in the post I started about the DDJ being a shamanistic treatise. Have a look at this for your answer. Sorry not brushing you off, but don't have the time to get into it.)

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Yeah, this same arguement. I've had it before. I've had it regarding Religious Taoist. I'm tired of arguing.

 

The Tao is all inclusive. I gotta' go find my "Harmony" now.

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Argument was due to the big difference in conflict with the comprehension of the TTC. Therefore, no one should be dare to rewrite the TTC or add misleading information to it.

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Argument was due to the big difference in conflict with the comprehension of the TTC. Therefore, no one should be dare to rewrite the TTC or add misleading information to it.

 

Until your a Shaman, as Flowing Hands is, you should start your own threads on such topics.

 

Respect the OPs thread. Contribute meaningfully to the topic please.

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Argument was due to the big difference in conflict with the comprehension of the TTC. Therefore, no one should be dare to rewrite the TTC or add misleading information to it.

My above post wasn't directed only at you. It was a generalized statement.

 

I really am tired of all the arguments. all the posturing, all the ego building, all the unasked-for judgements and criticisms.

 

Time for me to seek out the spirit of the valley and rest in her sweet embrace.

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My above post wasn't directed only at you. It was a generalized statement.

 

I really am tired of all the arguments. all the posturing, all the ego building, all the unasked-for judgements and criticisms.

 

Time for me to seek out the spirit of the valley and rest in her sweet embrace.

Me too , I just dont know where the hell she is.

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Me too , I just dont know where the hell she is.

Yes, that's the hard part. She is ever-present but shows herself only when she knows we are ready.

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Yes, that's the hard part. She is ever-present but shows herself only when she knows we are ready.

Very very weird Mh, prophetic , , I was thinking on it -the spirit of the valley , and a frog appeared , I let it go outside. Then I was thinking about low hanging fruit, and a piece of tiramisu appeared and it was very tasty . Very very weird. I hope I didnt just jinx it though. Very very weird.

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Here is verse 84

 

 

Following the way is a sacred path.

It has been sacred since the very beginning and shall be at the very end.

Following the way requires strength.

Not just physical but mental and spiritual too.

 

The sacred path was called by the Ancient Masters 'Daoist Heart'.

 

Many start on the path with wrong beginnings.

Many start on the path for the wrong reasons.

Many start on the path for fame and fortune.

But only very few make themselves like trees.

Stretching forth to Heaven with an open and humble heart, the way becomes clearer to such men.

 

That which goes against the Dao will never last.

 

The first 8 lines are pretty abstract, but I really like the tree image in 9 and 10.

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Very very weird Mh, prophetic , , I was thinking on it -the spirit of the valley , and a frog appeared , I let it go outside. Then I was thinking about low hanging fruit, and a piece of tiramisu appeared and it was very tasty . Very very weird. I hope I didnt just jinx it though. Very very weird.

Nice experiences you are having. Yes, life is weird sometimes. Those are the times we just experience and don't try to understand.

 

I doubt the spirit of the valley can be jinxed. I'm almost sure enough about that to say I "know" she cannot be jinxed.

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Note to Flowing Hands: Please excuse my using this thread for a place to communicate but right now this thread and "Watching The Birds" are the only two threads I feel at peace when I am reading or posting to it.

 

When you are ready to post the next chapters I will hush my mouth so that they can be spoken to. Thanks for understanding.

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Ok You will have to forgive my use of some words as I can't really find any other to express what Li Erh said to me.

 

Stosh and MH can continue their chat after they have been educated!!!!

 

 

 

Verse 88

Edited by flowing hands
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Those that seek the Dao should be mindful of the way they seek the Dao.

Should we even seek the Dao? Personally, I think not. No seeking to do, it is right there, right if front of our face.

 

Emptying the mind is necessary, sure. I'm not sure about emptying the heart though.That is, unless we are speaking of our emotional baggage when we say the heart.

 

Didn't Lao Tzu tell us to stay with the fruit and not the flower? Or was that Chuang Tzu?

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