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Kajenx

Wu wei - a bizarre realization?

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This is a practice I've recently discovered and wu wei is the only thing I could use to describe it. Please let me know what you guys think!

 

In the true spirit of Taoism, this idea is almost impossible to describe because it's completely contradictory. I've realized I can be free from the state of my mind if I surrender to it completely and embrace that I have no control. Another way to explain it is, maybe, if I accept that the current moment is all there is, and I accept it as completely mundane and boring, it turns into a world of perfection and beauty. I look at a stack of books, and I say to myself, "They're just books, they don't have to be anything else! Why was I trying to see them differently? I'm a bit restless, but that's just fine. Why have I ever been caught by these emotions? Why is there any suffering in my life?" It's a feeling so deep and calm I can't compare it to anything I've felt before, and at the same time, nothing has changed. I don't know why it's different at all, really. If I am not thinking this way, I glorify the idea of it in my mind and wonder how I got there. Then it dawns on me that it's nothing at all except reality and my mind as it is, completely as it is with no attempt to change it, and the boredom or anxiety or restlessness I feel is actually the same feeling as the mind-state itself.

 

Maybe, if we're being practical about it, you could say it's like I've decided that all of my feelings should actually be interpreted as a feeling of contentment. Anxiety? No, no, that tightness in the chest and slight pressure behind the eyes is tranquility and peace! Haha, it actually works that way...

 

Is this a view of the unconditioned mind? It's very easy to read through the Tao te Ching and apply it to almost every passage - but then, you could do that with a lot of ideas, haha. I feel like I've been completely off track in all of my meditation practices, and yet, this feels like some kind of outcome - like it's somehow related. I feel that if I can solidify this...we'll call it a world view, I wouldn't have to expend any kind of effort to do anything.

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...

Sounds great.

 

I'm not sure that's exactly what I would mean by wu wei, which is more to do with how to actually act or act not in the world.

 

It's just me, people disagree about labels.

 

You are describing the mental activity/phenomenon of neither clinging nor rejecting.

 

That is a potent method of realising the truth, so they say.

 

I think it encourages a sort of relaxation, which is quite beneficial.

 

As to the little tensions in the body, yes to recognise and observe them is interesting.

 

The body has its own intelligence.

 

There's a certain mode of intellect that is over dominant in most people.

 

It can override the body's natural intelligence and cause illness.

 

Best to listen quietly, to observe without judging overtly.

...

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I'm not sure that's exactly what I would mean by wu wei, which is more to do with how to actually act or act not in the world.

I agree with the Captain here. But it was, none-the-less, a grand stroke of insight.

 

We know that I don't like the word/concept of surrender because there are too many negative connotations with it for me to accept its usage but the way you used it is fair, I think.

 

Yeah, books. They are only books; filled with words from others. Maybe useful, maybe not. But regardless, read the words in order to understand the concepts and then forget the words but hold to the useful concepts that were presented.

 

And I will agree that, with a clear mind we can easily experience contentment. (and peace too)

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Hi Kajenx. This is what I think. :) Sometimes in trying to get to a more natural state we make our self jump through all sorts of hoops thinking that we are doing something useful. Natural is just the state that remains when we stop doing all this striving and jumping through hoops. Mental wrangling with different concepts is jumping through hoops. 'Wu wei', 'dao', 'jhana', etc., etc., these are all just words and concepts. If we are really natural we really have no need for all these sorts of words and concepts. What we think about such things is just what we think about such things. All the concepts in the world do not change anything. Focusing attention on whether we are in this state or in that state or on what we think we may have 'achieved' and that sort of thing is just needlessly stressing the mind IMO. In order to relax the mind we have to not worry about such things. It is only more concepts anyway. Relax, be natural, and practice diligently. :) How does it matter what state or non-state or whatever you may think you are experiencing? We should try to relax the mind and relax the heart as we are able. Over time we will be able to relax more and more. Then we can start to be more and more natural without doing anything special at all, and progress will occur at its own natural pace. That is how I see it anyway. :)

Edited by NotVoid
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You are all completely right, of course. ^^ This must be why the zen master burned all of his books, haha. I keep getting caught in thinking I've found a "method", but you can't really call effortlessness a method. It's more of an anti-method... I guess the only thing I need at this point is to remember I'm on the right track and stop trying to intellectualize it. Maybe the whole practice is just breaking bad habbits, and the further we go, the more it seems like we haven't done anything. I've become a bit obsessive over the past few months worrying that I'm going to lose progress or something, but that pretty silly isn't it? When there's nothing to do, nothing is left undone...

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Hi Kajenx. If you are able to relax more now than previously, then it would seem you are making some good progress. :)

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Hi Kajenx,

 

Sounds good and healthy, but it is not "unconditioned mind". What you are describing is more commonly called the "witness state". You are beginning to percieve the separation from your ongoing thoughts. Very good stuff.

 

Best wishes,

Jeff

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I'm probably thinking too much again here, but I'll risk it. :3 Is there anything worthwhile beyond the witness state? I like to think of it as the end of my path, since all I ever wanted to find was peace of mind.

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I would think if you wanted peace of mind ,and found it , then you shouldnt bother to press forward with anything else,, what would be the point? Wouldnt it then disturb the aforesaid found "peace of mind" ?

Edited by Stosh
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I'm probably thinking too much again here, but I'll risk it. :3 Is there anything worthwhile beyond the witness state? I like to think of it as the end of my path, since all I ever wanted to find was peace of mind.

 

What do you consider "worthwhile"?

 

In your current state there is controllable "peace of mind" at the conscious level. But, you will run into some subconscious issues/fears and you will forget your "peace of mind" for a while. Angry spouses or whiny kids are great for pointing that out. :)

 

There is a lot more out/in there, but enjoy. :)

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That's right, but it seems to work with the problems, not in spite of them. I notice mara is there, but I enjoy dancing with him rather that trying to sword fight like I used to. I notice the traits of the old emotions, but they don't seem to have any effect that could be called suffering. I can't say I'm in this mind all the time, but it's indestructable on its own. The only trouble I've had is that sleeping seems to reset my understanding of it haha. I know that a view of the unconditioned is supposed to help you fully eliminate ignorance, but I don't really understand what's left to do at this point aside from a bit more practice in concentration. I'm thinking it's always best to just assume you're done, and let new understandings come on their own from the practice, though. If I slip into the unconditioned, great! If not, at least I have my tranquility, right? XD

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That's right, but it seems to work with the problems, not in spite of them. I notice mara is there, but I enjoy dancing with him rather that trying to sword fight like I used to. I notice the traits of the old emotions, but they don't seem to have any effect that could be called suffering. I can't say I'm in this mind all the time, but it's indestructable on its own. The only trouble I've had is that sleeping seems to reset my understanding of it haha. I know that a view of the unconditioned is supposed to help you fully eliminate ignorance, but I don't really understand what's left to do at this point aside from a bit more practice in concentration. I'm thinking it's always best to just assume you're done, and let new understandings come on their own from the practice, though. If I slip into the unconditioned, great! If not, at least I have my tranquility, right? XD

A sure way to measure if one has immersed deep enough into the 'unconditioned' is the spontaneous knowing of how compassion and the unconditioned are intertwined.

 

Its safe to say that with your new found tranquility, the next phase would be to see if this intertwining comes to light. Its a good yardstick. If there is even a little recognition, then that is the direction to stride forward. This is perhaps the purpose you wish to understand.

 

It is said that those who achieve a great degree of union with the unconditioned become selfless. In this selflessness there is often the spontaneous wish, followed by equally spontaneous acts of kindness and love, to all beings. It will cease being a contrived process which involves mental activity and concepts. The ending of the limited self is a direct result of the cessation of hope and fear. You have just begun to get glimpses of this now. The implications of this is truly immense, immeasurable even.

 

May you attain the fruit of union speedily. _/\_

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Oh, I think I see what you mean! I read a good article the other day that broke down the anapanasati sutta, and what I mostly got out of it was the idea that we should look for successively more subtle stresses as the top layers start to peel away. I had to get rid of a lot of ill-will early on, and I could definitely see the benefits of a metta-centered path, but I never thought to relate anatta to selflessness in that respect. It's funny, it's even right in the meaning of the word "selfless". A person who doesn't dwell on their "self" would naturally spend their time thinking of other people, and the only relationship that would make sense would be empathy, since there wouldn't be much for the selfless person to relate back to.

 

I'll try not to turn this into a "method" haha, but maybe I'll think of it as a rudder. Steer towards compassion, and let that dissolve the remaining conceits I haven't dug deep enough to find yet. Thank you for the idea!

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Oh, I think I see what you mean! I read a good article the other day that broke down the anapanasati sutta, and what I mostly got out of it was the idea that we should look for successively more subtle stresses as the top layers start to peel away. I had to get rid of a lot of ill-will early on, and I could definitely see the benefits of a metta-centered path, but I never thought to relate anatta to selflessness in that respect. It's funny, it's even right in the meaning of the word "selfless". A person who doesn't dwell on their "self" would naturally spend their time thinking of other people, and the only relationship that would make sense would be empathy, since there wouldn't be much for the selfless person to relate back to.

 

I'll try not to turn this into a "method" haha, but maybe I'll think of it as a rudder. Steer towards compassion, and let that dissolve the remaining conceits I haven't dug deep enough to find yet. Thank you for the idea!

YES! ;) That is the one of the premises on which anatta takes root. Even then, it can be further refined. That is the joy of contemplative work... endless refinement processes available to those who are keen. :)

 

Have you heard of the story of the 2 groups of people, one in heaven, one in hell, sitting down to feast themselves? Its a good analogy for metta practice. So is the 'rudder' as an analogy!! Meandering stresslessly, guided towards compassion... nice! :)

Edited by C T

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Meandering stresslessly, guided towards compassion... nice! :)

You caused me to think with that one. Hehehe.

 

Afterall, compassion is one of the Three Treasures of the Taoist.

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The rudder is indeed a fine analogy.

Whose hand doth rest upon the tiller?

What the grist? And who the miller?

I sometimes feel I steer between dimensions.

...

Edited by Captain Mar-Vell
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After but a few minutes of close self observation it should be clear that much of what we do , is done without overt supervision by our aware sense of self. Our minds would be far too busy confused and cluttered if we were to monitor each act closely. I tried monitoring very closely to guide all my movements at work one morning, and was constantly reverting back automatic behaviors , so I reduced my attentiveness to one arm , it still didnt work , then one hand and finally one finger. I never did get complete attentive control even then! I figure this is why even calligraphy can be used to hone ones awareness.

But that doesnt make self supervision irrelevant , in order to complete a complicated task , I still was required to consider what I was about to do , it was not the case that I could let my my mind wander and rely on reflex or habit to guide the overall direction of what was going on. And so yes a captain at a tiller is a good analogy of what goes on.

A personal analogy I like, is that of the flight mechanism of a housefly,, the wings must beat so quickly , that each beat cannot be monitored individually, the way it works , is that the thorax of the fly is flexible, like an elastic box to which the wings hinge, the box is flexed ,and which then vibrates several beats for each flexion. The guidance control requirement is reduced , and the tiny little brain of the fly can manage what it otherwise couldnt.

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In the midst of meditation with out altered states or a need to achieve something, just simple, simple no method meditation. Are we Taoist or Buddhist? a man or a woman? black or white? Nope we are none of these things. When walking into a religious church one is full of self identity, I believe this, I am this not that,,instant conflict with the world

 

It is amazing to me how some cling to these labels for a sense of identity. Even in traditions that are there to transcend this lower level of understanding in the world the people still cling to the self for concepts, systems and contrivance for identity.

 

When we engage fully into this world with out contrivance, spontaneous with out agenda then this wu wei becomes alive, when we are active or still (pick your Yin Yang Pairing here) the world then becomes a better place for all race, creed, orientation, animal, plant, mineral every thing benefits not just one group with thoughts of how things are supposed be because that is a selfish act.

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