Does Anyone Have Power?

[Thunder_Gooch]

The one with the least stress and most joy at the end of the day, wins .

 

That seems to be the general consensus, people practice mostly as far as I can see as a form of entertainment. They aren't really trying to accomplish anything.

 

For me that's not good enough.

[BaguaKicksAss]

That seems to be the general consensus, people practice mostly as far as I can see as a form of entertainment. They aren't really trying to accomplish anything.

 

For me that's not good enough.

 

Not trying to accomplish anything my a$$. More like those are just the side affects of proper practice IMO.

Edited March 2, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[Aeran]

Let's put this in terms of money.

 

A lot of people who have a good income may think they are well off.

 

You may own a house, a car, and have no debt even, perhaps even a few hundred thousand in an IRA or whatever.

 

Yes compared to child who starves to death sleeping on a dirt floor you are doing pretty good.

 

However in the grand scheme of things... How does an upper middle class individual fair compared to a millionaire?

 

It's about the same as the relationship an upper middle class individual compares to a starving child in abject poverty.

 

Then what about the relationship to the billionaires to an upper middle class individual, it doesn't even compute.

 

 

That's what I am getting at.

 

 

You guys are making a big deal out of people who achieved an upper middle class lifestyle, and I am pointing out the difference in wealth compared to a billionaire.

 

But not everyone can be a billionaire - and a lot of people are happy with their metaphorical upper middle class lifestyle. If that's all they want then more power to them (so to speak).

[thetaoiseasy]

.

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[Aeran]

In that analogy, perhaps it's best to first recognize if you are a starving child or a middle class individual yourself. If you are a starving child, constantly speaking of caviar and fine dining is delusional. But yes, a really, really great form of entertainment...

 

That depends on whether they speak about it as a replacement for the real thing or speak about it to motivate themselves to keep working towards the real thing.

[thetaoiseasy]

.

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

Not trying to accomplish anything my a$$.

 

The point being lot's of people try real hard with things that don't work.

 

People make a big deal out out really mediocre results, which they probably would have realized the same had they worked hard with any type of placebo practice.

 

I think this sums up my feelings on the matter pretty well:

 

 

 

“What happened then?” I asked.

 

“Nothing. The man had lost the contest.”

 

“Did he become John’s student?”

 

“No. He was too proud.”

 

“Do you know why the man lost?” John asked suddenly from

behind us. He had crept up silently and was listening in.

 

“Because he had only yang ch’i?” I replied.

 

“That’s correct. He was a dedicated practitioner, but he didn’t

have all the proper information. What he did was ch’ikung, but not

neikung. A man can train all his life and not get anywhere unless he

is correct in his training.

 

The Magus of Java p97

 

 

Edited March 2, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[ThisLife]

The one with the least stress and most joy at the end of the day, wins .

 

 

*

Unfortunately, even attempting to use the 'joy and happiness scale' as a yardstick is not as clear-cut as it would at first seem. Check out this rather unusual take on the unending bliss we all spend so much of our lives in pursuit of. It's from a talk given by Richard Sylvester :

 

*

*

 

Expectations can be so subtle. There are always expectations if you are a student. I was listening to an interview with Mathieu Ricard on the radio last week. He is a French Buddhist monk who has written a book about happiness. American scientists have tested his brain wave patterns and found him to be the happiest person that they have ever come across. He sounded like an absolutely delightful man. I would love to spend an afternoon with him. But can you imagine the expectation of going to a Buddhist retreat where happiness is being taught! You'd probably be trying to gauge your happiness and comparing yourself to the other students in the room!

 

In a way it is another form of oppression, the expectation that I must not be miserable or that I am failing my Buddhist teachers by not being happy enough. It's something else to fail at.

 

The expectation of being happy is very seductive and lies at the heart of much of our activity. It may lie at the heart of a person seeking happiness on a Buddhist retreat or of a terrorist setting off a bomb. A person has the idea that if I do this or that I may become happier. We all want to be happy.

 

I was recently contacted by a Christian who said that he had recently had a sudden revelation that he actually didn't need anything else from God. Until that unexpected and startling insight he had spent so much time praying to God for so many things.

 

He said that afterwards, there was just such incredible relief. He suddenly realised that he could let go of all that need to please God.

 

*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2014 by ThisLife

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

But not everyone can be a billionaire - and a lot of people are happy with their metaphorical upper middle class lifestyle. If that's all they want then more power to them (so to speak).

People are satisfied playing make believe, more power to them. Some people want something real.

[Aeran]

People are satisfied playing make believe, more power to them. Some people want something real.

 

But that's my whole point, it isn't make believe - the gap between poverty and middle class, while tiny compared to the gap between poverty and billionairehood, is still very, very real, especially to the people trying to crawl their way out of poverty.

 

The man in that Magus of Java quote for example - his abilities weren't much compared to Chang, but he still did some pretty crazy stuff, especially compared to people who don't cultivate at all. He certainly wasn't 'roleplaying.'

Edited March 2, 2014 by Aeran

[Thunder_Gooch]

The man in that Magus of Java quote for example - his abilities weren't much compared to Chang, but he still did some pretty crazy stuff, especially compared to people who don't cultivate at all. He certainly wasn't 'roleplaying.'

He spent his whole life to develop parlor tricks, and will die like a dog just like everyone else.

 

I see it as a form of spiritual entertainment.

[Aeran]

He spent his whole life to develop parlor tricks, and will die like a dog just like everyone else.

 

I see it as a form of spiritual entertainment.

 

Doesn't that logic apply to everything else then? If any spiritual/energetic practice which doesn't work towards immortality is useless, roleplay etc. then surely any other activity which doesn't work towards the same goal is also useless, roleplay etc.

[BaguaKicksAss]

*

Unfortunately, even attempting to use the 'joy and happiness scale' as a yardstick is not as clear-cut as it would at first seem. Check out this rather unusual take on the unending bliss we all spend so much of our lives in pursuit of. It's from a talk given by Richard Sylvester :

 

*

*

 

Expectations can be so subtle. There are always expectations if you are a student. I was listening to an interview with Mathieu Ricard on the radio last week. He is a French Buddhist monk who has written a book about happiness. American scientists have tested his brain wave patterns and found him to be the happiest person that they have ever come across. He sounded like an absolutely delightful man. I would love to spend an afternoon with him. But can you imagine the expectation of going to a Buddhist retreat where happiness is being taught! You'd probably be trying to gauge your happiness and comparing yourself to the other students in the room!

 

In a way it is another form of oppression, the expectation that I must not be miserable or that I am failing my Buddhist teachers by not being happy enough. It's something else to fail at.

 

The expectation of being happy is very seductive and lies at the heart of much of our activity. It may lie at the heart of a person seeking happiness on a Buddhist retreat or of a terrorist setting off a bomb. A person has the idea that if I do this or that I may become happier. We all want to be happy.

 

I was recently contacted by a Christian who said that he had recently had a sudden revelation that he actually didn't need anything else from God. Until that unexpected and startling insight he had spent so much time praying to God for so many things.

 

He said that afterwards, there was just such incredible relief. He suddenly realised that he could let go of all that need to please God.

 

*

 

 

I see it personally as more of a side affect than something to try for. Though the less stress bit likely would be good to try for.

 

The whole happiness/joy thing is something I have noticed in folks who I feel have gone quite far on their path.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

Doesn't that logic apply to everything else then? If any spiritual/energetic practice which doesn't work towards immortality is useless, roleplay etc. then surely any other activity which doesn't work towards the same goal is also useless, roleplay etc.

Yup. The whole point of life is to distract ourselves till death it seems.

 

Almost no one on earth wants to be something more than a rotting pile of flesh.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yup. The whole point of life is to distract ourselves till death it seems.

 

Almost no one on earth wants to be something more than a rotting pile of flesh.

 

Some of us just feel we have some other methods for such .

[Aeran]

Some of us just feel we have some other methods for such .

 

But do those methods have any youtube videos of newspaper being set on fire? I mean that's the really important question....

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

But do those methods have any youtube videos of newspaper being set on fire? I mean that's the really important question....

Again Aeran you either want something real or you want to play make believe.

 

I'll remind you that the head of the mind science foundation, a medical doctor, and a biophysicist were present, he was stripped to a shirt and checked with a metal detector then taken to a random location. It being a youtube video does nothing to change this fact.

[BaguaKicksAss]

But do those methods have any youtube videos of newspaper being set on fire? I mean that's the really important question....

 

I'm handing out cacti today .

 

Though I don't think teasing TG for his posts will help him in any way....

[Aeran]

Again Aeran you either want something real or you want to play make believe.

 

I'll remind you that the head of the mind science foundation, a medical doctor, and a biophysicist were present, he was stripped to a shirt and checked with a metal detector then taken to a random location. It being a youtube video does nothing to change this fact.

 

Relax, I'm just messing with you

 

 

I'm handing out cacti today .

 

Are we talking Cacti carved with sigils? Or possibly possessed by some goetic spirit?

 

You're right though.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Aeran

[BaguaKicksAss]

Relax, I'm just messing with you

 

 

 

Are we talking Cacti carved with sigils? Or possibly possessed by some goetic spirit?

 

You're right though.

 

See my post about said cacti in the Community Challenge thread .

 

To see a thread about possessed plants, see the Taoist magic section! (though not Goetic in that case)

[BaguaKicksAss]

Thunder_Gooch, if we all didn't like ya, we would just ignore you .

[Wells]

http://i.imgur.com/I4PAziq.gif%3F1

[ThisLife]

It's been a curious experience for me reading through these last few pages of this thread. I don't do any martial arts and have never been drawn towards that path in any way,... so what I'm saying is not backed up by any personal experience from the inside.

 

But what I read here just seems to confirm my suspicions about trying to understand the nature of this phenomenon of our existence, by using a method based on combat with an external opponent. What it looks like from the outside is : one person gets up and says, "My method is the best,... and not only that, it's also the ONLY method that works !"

 

This draws out a challenger from the audience who says, "Oh yeah ! Well I have proof that MY method is best. So,... Take that ! BOP !!"

 

And they're off ! Sometimes bystanders get drawn in and then a really good time is had by all. Like an Irish pub on a Friday night. Everybody gets to go home with a black eye, a loose tooth, and a sore head.

 

Yay martial arts !

 

However, if an outsider were to sit outside the brawling pub wondering about the nature of existence and how to best navigate his way through this experience of life,... he'd see the brawlers periodically being thrown noisily through the pub windows or doors,... but would recognise that they're single-pointed life-or-death struggles, (though indisputably highly focussed),... were just one tiny piece of what was going on all around, and even, 'inside' them. The lessons being taught and learned inside those swinging doors were ultimately of no more, (nor any less) meaning than the snail munching through the publican's wife's lettuce patch just a few feet away.

 

The snail's 'movie' might be a tad less voluble and dramatic to watch, but it's claim to being 'the ONLY path', (I feel), is equally valid.

 

At least his path doesn't require an opponent. Could martial arts exist without an opponent. It seems to me this path is totally dependent on having another person who we perceive as attacking us. Otherwise it doesn't work. Can't work.

 

So, to outside appearances, it seems to me to be a path which by its nature, is inextricably enmired in dualistic thinking and acting, and can never free itself from the concept of self and other.

 

(Just a few random thoughts at the half-time interlude in this lively and entertaining Tao Bum Brawl.)

 

*

Edited March 3, 2014 by ThisLife

[Starjumper]

But do those methods have any youtube videos of newspaper being set on fire? I mean that's the really important question....

 

(thumbs up emoticon goes here)

Edited March 3, 2014 by Starjumper

[king]

I finally read this thread! It wasn't easy

I don't know about you guys, but I'm left with the impression that it was a huge waste of time. 30 pages and only 2/3 people actually answered the real topic, but very vaguely... And what's worse is that almost every discussion on the taobums is like that: people arguing about stuff irrelevant to the topic at hand.