Most Advanced Qigong/Neikung System Available?

[mwight]

From all the research I have done, the Lei Shan Dao (lighting and thunder path) contains the most advanced systems of Qigong/Nei Kung. Dr. David Verdesi seems to be the only source for western students to easily find and train in this art. But the price is beyond the reach of most middle class students.

 

Does anyone know of any other teachers or sources of this information that don't charge so much for the teachings.

 

 

I have had some instruction in the lei shan dao, spring forest qigong, robert peng's course, and robert bruces NEW system.

 

Does anyone know of any other more advanced teachings available online, or for self study?

 

Does anyone know of any other advanced teachers?

 

 

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited July 5, 2007 by mwight

[Cameron]

Master Tseng in Colorado teaches Taoist Alchemy. I can't say if it is similar or not to other systems because I haven't studied it. Ime doing a 3 day workshop with him and Ken Cohen in Nov. Here is his website if you want to explore yourself.

 

link

[mwight]

thanks! I will check into that. I do plan to study with my current master until he has no more to teach me, then I plan on saving up and training with David in China.

[GrandTrinity]

Qigongmaster.com

and google "iimq"

[mwight]

Great! Thanks so much

[GrandTrinity]

Keep me posted on your interest in Yuanming Zhang... maybe we go to the Palace of Heavenly Dragon together next summer... 2 of my friends should be coming already...

[Treena]

There are many excellent teachers. The system that will be the 'best' for you, will be the one that resonates with you. The one you will practice every day.

[mat black]

Just wondering, can you please state how you would define 'most advanced'

 

Do you mean that which would, through practice, afford you more:

 

extra sensory powers?

 

qi emmitting abilities?

 

physical health?

 

more qi,

 

or more jing,

 

or enhanced shen? (soul awareness)

 

or all the above

 

Also, what would be your reason/motivation?

 

These are not meant as rhetorical questions. The reason i'm asking is that i know of one simple but potentially very powerful technique (for which i can supply you with contacts).

 

To me, the efficacy of some techniques however powerful

is, to a large extent, based on our motivations and expectations.

 

For, as contradictory as it sounds, if the motivation is comming from a non-definable source within you, that is, pure non-goal orientated desire, then (from my experience) amazing results can occur.

 

Not that you are looking for them, they just occur as by-products of sincere application.

 

Edited July 11, 2007 by mat black

[gendao]

These are not meant as rhetorical questions. The reason i'm asking is that i know of one simple but potentially very powerful technique (for which i can supply you with contacts).

Hmm, sounds interesting...mind copying me on that method too?

 

And have you tried it yourself and experienced some of those symptomatic results?

[mat black]

Vortex, i sent you a PM

[Oolong Rabbit]

Vortex, i sent you a PM

 

Okay Matt, you've piqued my curiosity too. Can you make it a public posting, as I am sure others are no doubt interested as well.

[Ryan McCoole]

Okay Matt, you've piqued my curiosity too. Can you make it a public posting, as I am sure others are no doubt interested as well.

 

I am defintiely interested as well.

[mwight]

hi mat black I'm mat wight haha... no seriously..

 

 

 

anyway... the reason I am pursuing the lei shan dao is enlightenment. To be honest I want to wake up and leave this place. I have known this world is illusory since my teens, I have since fallen down the rabbithole even more. To be honest I am tired, and I want to leave. I am trying to find the best, and fastest exit from the matrix.

 

 

I view paths which develop these powers as more validated than those that don't. I believe that the manifestation of these powers is visible feedback which is necessary to validate the practice, but is not the end goal itself.

 

Enlightenment is my end goal, so I guess development of ESP would be my primary focus, however I want to train in an art where I can have directly observable milestones.

 

Right now I am trying to amass as much information as I can for a 2-4 year wilderness retreat I am planning.

 

I currently have a wonderful teacher in a branch of neigong (sorry can't reveal further info), but he can only take me so far as he is still a student himself. I do eventually intend to train with Dr. Verdesi, but his price is astronomical. I will have to live in my car and work full time just to be able to afford one class per year..

Edited July 12, 2007 by mwight

[Oolong Rabbit]

Lei Shan Dao does seem to exhibit some dramatic physical manifestations, but many traditions consider these "supernatural" abilities distractions or traps on the path. One should examine their motivations carefully.

[mwight]

Lei Shan Dao does seem to exhibit some dramatic physical manifestations, but many traditions consider these "supernatural" abilities distractions or traps on the path. One should examine their motivations carefully.

 

 

Well perhaps, but these other traditions haven't produced any enlightened beings lately that I have heard about.

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, but I see the lei shan dao as an accelerated path to enlightenment which may make it possible within ones lifetime.

[Cameron]

I say if your drawn to it check it out and report back. I may check out Master Tseng's Alchemy training at some point. Though I would need to get a good explanation of what exactly it entails. Which probably wouldn't be possible until after doing the "foundation" stuff..whatever that is

 

As far as the enlightenment question...it seems different traditions have different explanations of what enlightenment means.

 

The thing I personally question about some of these paths that make a big, big deal about the process,the training..and how it is so very hard to "achieve" enlightenment is from my experience with people I would call "awake"(not neccissarilly "fully" enlightened as I haven't gotten a clear enough view of these things yet) is it is pretty much about waking up to your true self which is WHAT IS ALREADY...rather than something added to.

 

It's interesting to see what people want or expect enlightnment to be. For example, Adyashanti, who I would say at very least is "awake" would probably say the imagined mountain top of enlightenment is just that..imagined. That the real thing is WHAT DOES NOT COME AND GO.

 

By the same token people who want to "get out of the matrix". What exactly do you mean by that? I don't have any problem with whatever peoples goals are just interesting to understand what people are talking about when they say that sort of thing.

 

Best.

[林愛偉]

Cultivating powers does not lead one to attaining enlightenment.

it only gives one more stuff to attach to.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[Ryan McCoole]

To second Aiwei, John Chang says in that new video that all this Qi stuff is only on the surface...byproducts of the real meditational and Awareness-expanding journey that he makes.

 

Be well,

 

-Ryan

[林愛偉]

To second Aiwei, John Chang says in that new video that all this Qi stuff is only on the surface...byproducts of the real meditational and Awareness-expanding journey that he makes.

 

Be well,

 

-Ryan

 

 

Yes. All of any abilities are only outcomes, byproducts of proper cultivation. It comes as it comes and doesn't need any one to think about it to develop. Only will power to dilligently cultivate.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

Edited July 12, 2007 by 林愛偉

[Ryan McCoole]

Yes. All of any abilities are only outcomes, byproducts of proper cultivation. It comes as it comes and doesn't need any one to think about it to develop. Only will power to dilligently cultivate.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

 

To play the devil's advocate, then why all this stress on cultivation and secrecy and powers being a standard for 'enlightenment'? Is it just the allure of bending the veil of Reality? Having something that you can call 'mine'? Or....? Just some musings...

[林愛偉]

To play the devil's advocate, then why all this stress on cultivation and secrecy and powers being a standard for 'enlightenment'? Is it just the allure of bending the veil of Reality? Having something that you can call 'mine'? Or....? Just some musings...

 

 

 

The only ones who are stressing secrecy, and powers as a standard for enlightenment are wrong.

 

Cultivation is the foundation, it is not mysterious, nor secretive. Without cultivation there will be no realizing the result. There is no mystery to it, and those claiming mystery to it and basing enlightenment on acheiving powers are lying to everyone...looking to make money and shun out those who actually know what they are talking about.

 

In a world where the majority believes the false to be true, what is true is false.

 

If one hasn't already awakened, and they are looking to develop powers and such, they are putting too big of a tool in their hands which will cause more problems in the future. If one awakens, and intends to focus abit on powers and such, no problem. But is doesn't mean they are enlightened. Showing off one's powers and looking for recognition for it as enlightened or being powerful is only to welcome in the demons. You cannot gain anything from them...only problems.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

Edited July 12, 2007 by 林愛偉

[Ryan McCoole]

 

The only ones who are stressing secrecy, and powers as a standard for enlightenment are wrong.

 

Cultivation is the foundation, it is not mysterious, nor secretive. Without cultivation there will be no realizing the result. There is no mystery to it, and those claiming mystery to it and basing enlightenment on acheiving powers are lying to everyone...looking to make money and shun out those who actually know what they are talking about.

 

In a world where the majority believes the false to be true, what is true is false.

 

If one hasn't already awakened, and they are looking to develop powers and such, they are putting too big of a tool in their hands which will cause more problems in the future. If one awakens, and intends to focus abit on powers and such, no problem. But is doesn't mean they are enlightened. Showing off one's powers and looking for recognition for it as enlightened or being powerful is only to welcome in the demons. You cannot gain anything from them...only problems.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

 

*nods and bows* well said Aiwei. When reading this, chapter 20 from the Hua Hu Ching came to mind:

 

"The clairvoyant may see forms which are elsewhere, but he cannot see the formless. The telepathic may communicate directly with the mind of another, but he cannot communicate with one who has achieved no-mind. The telekinetic may move an object without touching it, but he cannot move the intangible. Such abilities have meaning only in the realm of duality. Therefore, they are meaningless. Within the Great Oneness, though there is no such thing as clairvoyance, telepathy, or telekinesis, all things are seen, all things understood, all things forever in their proper places."

 

Be well,

 

Ryan

[林愛偉]

*nods and bows* well said Aiwei. When reading this, chapter 20 from the Hua Hu Ching came to mind:

 

"The clairvoyant may see forms which are elsewhere, but he cannot see the formless. The telepathic may communicate directly with the mind of another, but he cannot communicate with one who has achieved no-mind. The telekinetic may move an object without touching it, but he cannot move the intangible. Such abilities have meaning only in the realm of duality. Therefore, they are meaningless. Within the Great Oneness, though there is no such thing as clairvoyance, telepathy, or telekinesis, all things are seen, all things understood, all things forever in their proper places."

 

Be well,

 

Ryan

 

 

Exactly.

 

Messing in the duality of Movement and stillness is still in the realm of duality.

 

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[Pero]

Secrecy is not wrong. In general it`s good not to talk much about your practice.

[mat black]

Secrecy is not wrong. In general it`s good not to talk much about your practice.

 

 

That's why i didn't elaborate on what i practice. Not because it's 'secret' - individualised yes, but not secret.

 

For me, the cultivation is kind of personal. I'm also not good at articulating non-sensory experience.

 

I need to speak to Master Feng before i attempt to describe it any more.

 

Mwight, I empathise with your motives.

Mine are kind of as follows:

 

To realise the source of this 'I', (the source of this conciousness) and if it's even possible, (at least while still in this body) to harmonise, enhance and integrate every facet of this being (jing/qi/shen).

Ultimatey, concious awareness of all that is.

 

But not for 'me' as such, the motive comes from a non specific, source within me - I can't explain it

 

...................the futility of words

 

Aiwei, I'm treasuring the wisdom of your posts.