thelerner

Filling up the lower Dan Tien- How and Why

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Should filling the Dan Tien be considered an important mile stone before an esoteric practitioner can move on to other practices.

 

Do we 'fill up' the Dan Tien just by deep full breathing and putting attention there? Does reverse breathing help the process? Is it necessary?

 

What are the markers of progress and are visualizations a help or hindrance?

 

 

 

I think it is vital and too often forgotten in the rush to learn more complicated practices. I think reverse breathing can help the process, and there are 'light' versions of it; a mental feeling of contraction of chi w/ a slight tightening of the butt, instead of the usual reversal of stomach movement during breath.

 

I like visualizations, but I'm trying not to use them much these days.

 

<edit> 9/6/14 the thread is on 26 pages and going strong. At some point I'd like to create a Best of.. this thread. Collect what I feel are the most important comments and condense them into a single cohesive post. Then put it on top to make it easier to find.

 

For some of these long, juicy, useful threads, it might be a cool idea for a OP writer to do this. Create a summary of the best thoughts, in one place so they're easier.

Edited by thelerner
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IME, visualizations and breathing practices can create feelings/sensations but they aren't permanent nor do they leave any lasting results. What gave me a serious increase in power and understanding of what energetic cultivation is all about, was learning how to use barely any effort to get into a state of consciousness where there are absolutely no random thoughts/mental chatter but very powerful awareness and clarity..sort of like going from sunshine to laser beams.

 

-edit: forgot to write that within this state of consciousness is where your true work begins as far as internal alchemy and also realizing the effects of yin qi and yang qi and how they function within your body.

Edited by ShinRa
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consider the ldt as a node-point culmination of a bunch of vectored potentials, are they in phase, do they constructively amplify, or are there a mixture? when everything constructively amplifies, and harmoniously - greater overall amplitude.

 

a more functional question, "can it """truly""" be filled" without the "alchemical pill?" is this 'filling' ingredient-dependent, or can significant enough amplitudes be reached via other means, e.g. niwan techniques? one can certainly feel and perturb the energy potential there without it.

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I don't think filling is the right word. But the right word escapes me at the moment. Will check in later. Nice topic :-)

potential-wells never rise linearly, there is always some function that can accurately describe the relevant local maxima of potential for a given range of the possibilities thereof...

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“Yes, but. . . .”

 

“No buts!” he interrupted. “Anyone with ch’i can learn how to do this.

 

It’s nothing!” He thought that statement over for a second, then added, “But first you must have ch’i.”

 

The Magus of Java p158

Kind hard to drive very far with an empty gas tank, same concept.

 

In my experience chi cannot be worked with outside of deep trance. Mental focus though is the method used to put yang chi in the LDT, but if not in deep trance it won't matter much.

 

Visualization is a hindrance, visualizing working with energy exists in your imagination only, chi is felt not visualized. There will be absolutely no doubt you are feeling chi, it's not the same as what you feel in a waking state of consciousness either. Chi can't be worked with outside of deep trance.

Edited by More_Pie_Guy
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How:

 

1. Place your attention on the Xia Dantien and relax the body and mind.

2. Return your attention back to the Xia Dantien, when you become aware that it is not there.

3. Repeat

 

Do not use intention, use attention.

 

This is the root. There are many branches, but this is the root.

Edited by effilang
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What are the markers of progress and are visualizations a help or hindrance?

 

Not speaking from a Taoist alchemy school, but just general layman's experience...

 

In one of Eva Wong's books on Taoist alchemy, "yellow sprouts" and "golden sparks flying from behind the navel" (I think they're the same thing) are said to be a sign that the lower dantian is filled/activated/working/however you want to say it. This is pretty obvious to anyone who practices this stuff...you feel a new sort of qi, going out from the dantian as you try to keep it and your attention in there, and there's nothing you can do about it. I think it starts to be taken in to the extraordinary vessels, and you start to feel it flowing along those pathways in general...up the back and spine especially.

 

So that's a sign of at least some progress in this method. People on the internet can nitpick it however much they want...practitioners can doubt their own experience however much they want. But a new qi is being produced regardless, if you practice lower dantian filling.

 

Other markers of progress...your body basically becoming golden and soft looking if you look in the mirror. Means your jing is full for the time being. Your body feeling like one energy, united...no front, side, back, top, bottom...just one thing, like light...in addition your aura is basically very strong and extends past your skin. You basically are your aura and so is your body. One thing. This aura is partly due to wei qi. So you're very likely not becoming sick ever, and feel more youthful.

 

Visualization can definitely make it stronger, if you do it right. But visualization also strongly activates the upper dantian...as does spatially locating your awareness someplace in the body, or an object of visualization. This becomes obvious to anyone who practices such methods for a while. Something less UDT-activating, is to "just feel what's going on" in the lower dantian area. Not to spatially relocate awareness. Just feeling what's going on, or gently meditating on the sensations of the lower belly, doesn't active the upper so much.

 

I think there are more problems than simply this, by relocating awareness...basically the spirit is leaving its center when this is done. Also, stagnation is being built up in the new area of awareness...not good to have stagnation in the lower dantian. Or especially the heart area, if you were to try methods involving that. It's also not good to put attention inside of the body, in my opinion, since the body is what holds karma and the unconscious...so you're bringing up shit to a certain extent. These are just things I've noticed...but they're easy to deal with for people who really want to practice this.

 

I think where the hands are, can help where the qi goes (look at the homunculus figure, our brain is most aware of the hands)...so for instance the stillness-movement seated hand position would help cause the lower dantian to fill. Kunlun Nei Gung has the same position for "closing down" after other methods. It's interesting to research the acupuncture points in that area, below the navel and above the pubic bone.

 

Just random stuff to think about, not at all advanced or legitimate.

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I don't think filling is the right word. But the right word escapes me at the moment. Will check in later. Nice topic :-)

 

I think maybe 'illuminating' comes close. Like the air surrounding a candle wick.

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Once the dan tien is filled with Qi, the energy automatically goes to the middle dan tien... and finally fill the head.

This is the basic theory of neikung.

 

But, in practice it happens that the energy goes downward because there are less resistances and a natural opening.

Results? Leakage ...

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Not speaking from a Taoist alchemy school, but just general layman's experience...

 

In one of Eva Wong's books on Taoist alchemy, "yellow sprouts" and "golden sparks flying from behind the navel" (I think they're the same thing) are said to be a sign that the lower dantian is filled/activated/working/however you want to say it. This is pretty obvious to anyone who practices this stuff...you feel a new sort of qi, going out from the dantian as you try to keep it and your attention in there, and there's nothing you can do about it. I think it starts to be taken in to the extraordinary vessels, and you start to feel it flowing along those pathways in general...up the back and spine especially.

 

So that's a sign of at least some progress in this method. People on the internet can nitpick it however much they want...practitioners can doubt their own experience however much they want. But a new qi is being produced regardless, if you practice lower dantian filling.

 

Other markers of progress...your body basically becoming golden and soft looking if you look in the mirror. Means your jing is full for the time being. Your body feeling like one energy, united...no front, side, back, top, bottom...just one thing, like light...in addition your aura is basically very strong and extends past your skin. You basically are your aura and so is your body. One thing. This aura is partly due to wei qi. So you're very likely not becoming sick ever, and feel more youthful.

 

Visualization can definitely make it stronger, if you do it right. But visualization also strongly activates the upper dantian...as does spatially locating your awareness someplace in the body, or an object of visualization. This becomes obvious to anyone who practices such methods for a while. Something less UDT-activating, is to "just feel what's going on" in the lower dantian area. Not to spatially relocate awareness. Just feeling what's going on, or gently meditating on the sensations of the lower belly, doesn't active the upper so much.

 

I think there are more problems than simply this, by relocating awareness...basically the spirit is leaving its center when this is done. Also, stagnation is being built up in the new area of awareness...not good to have stagnation in the lower dantian. Or especially the heart area, if you were to try methods involving that. It's also not good to put attention inside of the body, in my opinion, since the body is what holds karma and the unconscious...so you're bringing up shit to a certain extent. These are just things I've noticed...but they're easy to deal with for people who really want to practice this.

 

I think where the hands are, can help where the qi goes (look at the homunculus figure, our brain is most aware of the hands)...so for instance the stillness-movement seated hand position would help cause the lower dantian to fill. Kunlun Nei Gung has the same position for "closing down" after other methods. It's interesting to research the acupuncture points in that area, below the navel and above the pubic bone.

 

Just random stuff to think about, not at all advanced or legitimate.

 

Great post!

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The Tan Tiens aren't "real" places, physically.

 

There are matching physical places with conduits that empower "ganglions".

An MRI of the lower Tan Tien would reveal nothing.

 

In cultivating, you are becoming aware of super-imposed/over lapping vehicles.

You are just transferring consciousness to another realm, so to speak.

That's why Qi responds better when the cultivator is in Alpha state, as opposed to being in normal Beta state.

 

Filling Tan Tiens is a misnomer. IMO

 

The Tan Tien is not growing, but rather, your perception of it is growing.

 

Google "false pregnancy"- the body will falsely accommodate a wrong perception.

 

Multiple Personality Disorder, will provide various personalities, with varying medical disorders.

 

Hypnosis can create or eradicate illnesses.

 

If you meditate daily, and put your awareness in any part of the body- let's say- your big toe.

Do this for a couple of weeks, and it feels as though there is a major chakra there.

Do it longer, and you will swear there is a Tan Tien there.

 

 

There is much more to Tan Tien cultivation.

IMO, it isn't so black and white.

 

Cultivation = gaining control over etheric realms, and aligning via perception

Edited by SonOfTheGods
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The Tan Tiens aren't "real" places, physically.

 

I was trying to tell the people all along but nobody was listening.

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Is your dantien half full or half empty? ;)

 

When one breathes deeply is full, when exhale is empty. When is half full or half empty, then you are wasting your time in breathing. So to speak as a Chi Kung practitioner.

Edited by ChiDragon
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When one breathes deeply is full, when exhale is empty. When is half full or half empty, then you are wasting your time in breathing. So to speak as a Chi Kung practitioner.

 

Mo Pai practitioners fill the tantien with thousands of hours of hard training and deep meditation.

ChiDragon....just needs to take one deep breath.

 

ChiDragon > Chuck Norris > John Chang

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Mo Pai practitioners fill the tantien with thousands of hours of hard training and deep meditation.

ChiDragon....just needs to take one deep breath.

Does that mean just one deep breath with no exhalation....???

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When one breathes deeply is full, when exhale is empty. When is half full or half empty, then you are wasting your time in breathing. So to speak as a Chi Kung practitioner.

 

:D

Edited by ChiDragon

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I think where the hands are, can help where the qi goes (look at the homunculus figure, our brain is most aware of the hands)...so for instance the stillness-movement seated hand position would help cause the lower dantian to fill. Kunlun Nei Gung has the same position for "closing down" after other methods. It's interesting to research the acupuncture points in that area, below the navel and above the pubic bone.

 

This was one of the simple but profound things I got out of Stilness-Movement. Moving my hands a few inches closer so they touched my tan tien. I've found it to be a positive energetic difference, versus the usual formal zen murdra (or relaxed in lap) I did for decades.

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In my experience chi cannot be harvested outside of deep trance.

:D "working with" can absolutely be done while not in that deep state. "making that which you've cultivated part of what you're harvesting" is where the deep state is required. are you telling us with all the time you've put in to this you cant change the potential a bit there and do something with it? just curious, because your verbiage is always absolute and certain, and whereas the nature of words is abstraction, there's always a ton of different ways to say the same thing yet have some slightly different connotation.

Edited by joeblast
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it's helpful if the lao-gong points line up

Yes, initially it can certainly make a difference. However, once a person begins wai qi liao fa these become larger energy centers instead of points. When this happens - this happens quickly in Stillness-Movement practitioners - being slightly off-center will not matter as they will overlap.

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