WHAT IS JING?

[Mudryah]

Chinese saying: Daojia has three most important things: Jing/Qi/Shen 精、气、神 . In these three ones, everything starts from Jing精. But what is Jing精 ?

For some reasons, the writers always dont tell you the truth about their experiences directly, they like to use many obscure words to cover their simple truth about Jing 精. That makes their followers into a misterious and confused understandings about Jing精.

 

 

 

 

No ground for blame on this approach ! This is one of human beings culture !

 

 

But not all the writers like to cover them in their books .

 

 

More than two thousand years before, Chinese famous medicinal book 《Huang Di Nei Jin》has told us what Jing精 is by the clear and simple and understandable words.

 

 

In 《 Huang Di Nei Jin. Suwen. Ping Re Bing Lun 》it tells us like this:

 

When the virus attacks the cover of our body, our body immune system ( Zheng qi 正气) always fights with the virus by sweating 出汗. Where is our sweat ( Jing 精) from? It comes from our stomach and spleen. If your immune system正气 can sweat when the virus attacks your cover, then, you lost your fever, and can have food, you win(精胜! Your Jing 精 win! If can not have food, and hot still, your Jing 精 lost !

 

 

And so, if you want to get enough Jing精, you must have a good stomach and spleen first. No them, no Jing 精 will be produced!

 

 

And now, you understand what you should do for in your martial arts or Qi gong trainings !

 

That is: Always keep your stomach and spleen into a good condition first ! ( Chinese saying ! Please understand it in Chinese culture ! )

 

 

Hope my this understanding can help you to understand Taojias culture deeper!

[Mudryah]

Written by one of my former teacher's disciples from China.

 

[ChiDragon]

When the virus attacks the cover of our body, our body immune system ( Zheng qi 正气) always fights with the virus by sweating 出汗. Where is our sweat ( Jing 精) from? It comes from our stomach and spleen. If your immune system正气 can sweat when the virus attacks your cover, then, you lost your fever, and can have food, you win(精胜! Your Jing 精 win! If can not have food, and hot still, your Jing 精 lost !

 

 

And so, if you want to get enough Jing精, you must have a good stomach and spleen first. No them, no Jing 精 will be produced!

 

 

This is only leads to a believer or non-believer. However, the validity of the saying need to be challenged with modern science.

Edited November 24, 2013 by ChiDragon

[taomen]

And so, if you want to get enough Jing精, you must have a good stomach and spleen first. No them, no Jing 精 will be produced!

 

Very interesting! I read somewhere that sweets are bad for spleen - so them affect Jing Edited November 30, 2013 by taomen

[dawei]

In 《 Huang Di Nei Jin. Suwen. Ping Re Bing Lun 》it tells us like this:

 

When the virus attacks the cover of our body, our body immune system ( Zheng qi 正气) always fights with the virus by sweating 出汗. Where is our sweat ( Jing 精) from? It comes from our stomach and spleen. If your immune system正气 can sweat when the virus attacks your cover, then, you lost your fever, and can have food, you win(精胜! Your Jing 精 win! If can not have food, and hot still, your Jing 精 lost !

 

 

And so, if you want to get enough Jing精, you must have a good stomach and spleen first. No them, no Jing 精 will be produced!

 

I think the link between [Post-Heaven] Jing and Stomach/Spleen is simply because that is the starting point for food ingestion.

 

These organs extract the 'essence' in food/liquid and distribute it around the body... but the other organs play a role in the eventual extraction/production of Qi and blood... but it all starts somewhere... with the first bite.

 

This is not quite yet an answer to, "What is Jing" but maybe more a glimpse as to the start of the extracting/processing/transforming of [Post-Heaven] Jing.

 

Once the process is completed through the organs and all the vital substances are realized, then we may have a better idea of what is Jing.

 

 

Adding a link which may be useful:

Spleen: http://www.sacredlotus.com/theory/zangfu/spleen.cfm

Stomach: http://www.sacredlotus.com/theory/zangfu/stomach.cfm

Edited November 30, 2013 by dawei

[Taomeow]

 

This is only leads to a believer or non-believer. However, the validity of the saying need to be challenged with modern science.

 

Yeah, and one needs to actually study modern science in order to challenge an ancient one.

 

I propose you study embryology for starters -- I have. It corroborates what taoist sources say about jing -- to wit, that it originates in the Kidneys. (Mudrya, not stomach and spleen, though no arguing with the good care of these you propose, they are not the source but, rather, the recipient of jing.) The first layer of cells in embryonic development to be folded into the beginning of the first organs of the body forms the kidneys. This same layer proceeds to lay down the brain, the hypothalamus, pituitary, pineal, adrenal structures, the skeletal structure, sexual organs and glands, ears, teeth, and fingernalis -- exactly the organs taoist sciences include in the Kidneys organ-system-function.

 

So, once confirmed thus by modern science (which however has a tendency to not notice it has confirmed an ancient one, because those who know modern science are more often than not oblivious of the ancient one due to peculiarities of our schooling), it carries over the "extra credit" thus earned (for those who need it) to its other assertions -- e.g. that jing originates in the Kidneys. Jing is a concept a tad too complex for modern science, it can't confirm or refute it because it is missing from its current paradigm due to the lack of integrative powers of this paradigm (e.g. it has no concept and no definition of "health," our modern science does not, it can't define what "health" is, only what this or that "disease" is, and so one has to assume that the absence of a currently diagnosed "disease" is the same as "health." Which every reasonable person who has experienced assorted fluctuations of personal states of physicality, mentality and emotionality knows is not even close. "Health" is something else, but what -- this, modern science has never attempted to answer. So jing which forms its basis, the basis of health, is below, above, out of range of its radar.)

 

In the light of what Kidneys actually mean in taoist sciences and how they form per modern science (the whole embryonic layer specializing in creating particular organs and functions, uniquely distinct and separate albeit connected with other embryonic layers, and retaining its original peculiarities throughout the whole lifetime), it becomes clear that jing is the connection between what creates the blueprint for the human being (DNA and the whole phylogenic history) and what materializes as an individual (ontogenic history).

 

So, jing is primarily memory, ontogenic and phylogenic -- memory of how to be a member of the human species, and memory of a particular organism of how to be this particular specimen of the human species. It is a plan and construction according to the plan, a program and its execution simultaneously. So it is both material and immaterial, one could say "spiritual," though "jing," understood correctly, while covering the spiritual territory, extends far beyond it into more intricate aspects of being and nonbeing.

 

I would suggest everybody gets a clear picture of what jing is before undertaking to "conserve" it (and this may take a long while, not many good sources remain to help one understand). But I've been talking about it for years and still, because this and that "master" has planted the seeds of total nincompoopness in so many minds, semen will be retained, semen will be forcibly self-constipated, and what I just said will drown again in the collective morphogenetic field of confused shen.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Taomeow

[Taomeow]

I think the link between [Post-Heaven] Jing and Stomach/Spleen is simply because that is the starting point for food ingestion.

 

These organs extract the 'essence' in food/liquid and distribute it around the body... but the other organs play a role in the eventual extraction/production of Qi and blood... but it all starts somewhere... with the first bite.

 

This is not quite yet an answer to, "What is Jing" but maybe more a glimpse as to the start of the extracting/processing/transforming of [Post-Heaven] Jing.

 

Once the process is completed through the organs and all the vital substances are realized, then we may have a better idea of what is Jing.

 

 

Adding a link which may be useful:

Spleen: http://www.sacredlotus.com/theory/zangfu/spleen.cfm

Stomach: http://www.sacredlotus.com/theory/zangfu/stomach.cfm

"Post-heaven jing," also known as "qi."

[xenolith]

...what I just said will drown again in the collective morphogenetic field of confused shen.

Not here (...also thymus). Thank you Taomeow.

 

xeno

[spiraltao]

Taomeow beat me to it! I was going to mention the relationship between the kidneys and jing, but TaoMeow's answer went far beyond my knowledge!

[soaring crane]

I would suggest everybody gets a clear picture of what jing is before undertaking to "conserve" it ...

 

:wub:

 

Absolutely, and it makes my day when a vintage Taomeow post appears - thank you again!

 

One functional (I know it's not really correct) way I interpret it for myself: Jing is my ability to stand my ground, Qi is my ability to move and Shen is my ability to discern when to do one or the other. Or better said, it controls the mix

 

The mountain, the river that flows down it, and the sky above all, with the view over all below it.

 

Regarding fighting sickness - how I fight an oncoming cold: Hot showers, sauna and really hot chili in my tea ie sweating it out.

Edited December 1, 2013 by soaring crane

[taomen]

Taomeow, how do you think is jing directly connected with sexual function?

[Rara]

So I guess the booze will mess it all up then?

[soaring crane]

...

Edited December 1, 2013 by soaring crane

[dawei]

 

Taomeow beat me to it! I was going to mention the relationship between the kidneys and jing, but TaoMeow's answer went far beyond my knowledge!

 

Ditto !

 

That is why I put [Post-Heaven] Jing in brackets as most people talk about Jing really only mean this part... but TM has connected it at a much deeper level into the Pre-Heaven aspect as well.

 

It was a bit of an ah-ha moment about the comments of the 'memory'... As Jing is related to the Kidney's and I had learned that memory as well... but never connected the Jing<>Memory dots.

 

I looked back at some notes and then found that I had memory broken down as follows:

Kidneys = short-term

Heart = long-term

Spleen = rote

 

It may be that TM has a different scheme for these.

 

I'll attached a graphic of embryology growth phase... not sure if this agrees with her scheme but it is a useful and small chart. Source: JAJ Medical Qigong book.

Embryology.bmp

[soaring crane]

I'll attached a graphic of embryology growth phase... not sure if this agrees with her scheme but it is a useful and small chart. Source: JAJ Medical Qigong book.

 

doesn't seem to.

 

The connection kidneys/aural perception is interesting. Kidneys revealing themselves in the ears is standard, but hearing is also the first active sense, in the womb. We hear plenty of the world 'out there' looooong before we see it. So, it fits, to my thinking, that the kidney circuit would be the earliest to develop.

[soaring crane]

The first layer of cells in embryonic development to be folded into the beginning of the first organs of the body forms the kidneys. This same layer proceeds to lay down the brain, the hypothalamus, pituitary, pineal, adrenal structures,

 

I was wondering about the adrenal 'structures'. Given their proximity to the kidneys (they're attached), do they develop concurrently? Or perhaps even appear first? Their name means 'near the kidneys' and some of their functions can be compared to kidney function in TCM. They're responsible for electrolyte balance in the body, for example, and that is the most basic function of all, it's part of the 'constitution', a very Jing function. And they have that sexual function as well ...

 

Were those glands actually recognized specifically in the development of the Chinese systems? The other glands specifically?

 

[dawei]

here is from JAJ's book:

 

Modern research in Chinese medicine equates the function of the adrenal glands to the function of Kidney Yang.

. . .

 

During the development of the embryo, the Thrusting Vessels are responsible for the development of the adrenal glands and the cortex.

[soaring crane]

here is from JAJ's book:

 

Modern research in Chinese medicine equates the function of the adrenal glands to the function of Kidney Yang.

 

Yes, but 'modern' CM has been touched by western awareness, I'm more curious about ancient CM and if they also recognized the glands. They described the endocrine system to a T based on... observation? Did they know about the glands?

 

And also the appearance of the adrenals in the embryo as Taomeow described. Do they show up concurrently with the kidneys?

 

Another embryonic question - I'd always assumed that the first cells to develop are those which connect the embryo to the mother. But I'm wondering when those actually appear. When does the umbilical state begin? Would be interesting to know as I meditate on this and going to a physical state previous to the umbilical would be change some things.

Edited December 3, 2013 by soaring crane

[BaguaKicksAss]

There is an entire section in those books about the development of the fetus. I'll re-read and quote a few relevant sections over the next few days. (this really helps with my studies :>).

 

Also, there must be some of the TCM manuals which are still used today, which actually cover the more ancient knowledge on this?

[BaguaKicksAss]

I mean the regular human fetus, and I wish I understood his writings well enough (and had some semblance of a memory) to go into how this compares with the immortal fetus! Ask me again in 6 months? :> But now I'm curious, so might just look it up too...

 

I've only been reading/studying his work for a couple of years now (those are a lot of books!)

[soaring crane]

My first thought was "Do you mean the human fetus or the immortal fetus?"

 

haha... that is the point, of course

[dawei]

Yes, but 'modern' CM has been touched by western awareness, I'm more curious about ancient CM and if they also recognized the glands. They described the endocrine system to a T based on... observation? Did they know about the glands?

 

And also the appearance of the adrenals in the embryo as Taomeow described. Do they show up concurrently with the kidneys?

 

Another embryonic question - I'd always assumed that the first cells to develop are those which connect the embryo to the mother. But I'm wondering when those actually appear. When does the umbilical state begin? Would be interesting to know as I meditate on this and going to a physical state previous to the umbilical would be change some things.

 

My feeling is that he included that to confirm what the ancients already knew...

 

I will say that it is a associated to the yellow court and MDT section more than the LDT. So there was an ancient awareness of the energy in that area and it was of significance, but whether the ancients had put a name to the adrenals or not will require another more versed in ancient texts.

 

I know that my Medical Qigong master harps on the adrenals and it has not sunk in yet... maybe I need to just let him tap my system a bit to show me

 

Do they show up concurrently? Good question.. My speculation would be that we grow from the center outward, so the kidneys grew a bud and fully developed once the adrenals formed.

Edited December 3, 2013 by dawei

[dawei]

What does he "harp" about?

 

The part which won't sink in (ie: into my brain to connect the dots)...

 

I probably need to do something like clinical work so I can 'feel' the issue and bypass my brain

[BaguaKicksAss]

In the Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine it is also written that, "When the Jing (Essence) of Yin and Yang Qi merges (the blending of the sperm and the egg), before the fetus changes into its dominant sex, the two Kidney orbs grow first." Both Kidneys are formed like two halves of a bean, with the Original Qi (Yuan Qi) located between them. At one time, the left Kidney orb was called the "true" Kidney, while the right orb was considered the Mingmen (Gate of Life, Fate, or Destiny). The Mingmen is said to store the energy of the man's sperm essence, or the woman's egg essence (their Postnatal Jing). During the Ming dynasty, however, the theory of the Mingmen Fire occupying the space between the two Kidneys became more popular.

Page 71 CMQT Vol 1; Jerry Alan Johnson

 

More to come .

[soaring crane]

Page 71 CMQT Vol 1; Jerry Alan Johnson

 

More to come .

Was that a pun? :smirk: