What came first?

[Z3N]

What came first?...........the chicken or the egg??

Edited November 24, 2013 by Z3N

[thelerner]

This was just asked to Marilyn Savant who has the highest I.Q recorded on the planet. She said 'The chicken.egg' And gave an explanation you couldn't argue with.

I did notice her column in the Chicago Tribune was sponsored by KFC.

 

http://www.parade.com/226814/marilynvossavant/which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg/

Edited November 24, 2013 by thelerner

[dawei]

This was just asked to Marilyn Savant who has the highest I.Q recorded on the planet. She said 'The chicken.egg' And gave an explanation you couldn't argue with.

I did notice her column in the Chicago Tribune was sponsored by KFC.

 

http://www.parade.com/226814/marilynvossavant/which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg/

 

I thought the answer was so obvious that it didn't need to be asked or answered... of course the egg...

 

The more interesting question once we get beyond this is: What laid that egg

[Seeker of Wisdom]

The egg. Something that was very close to being a chicken laid a chicken egg.

 

Something that isn't a chicken can't itself become a chicken, but it can lay an egg with that last mutation that makes the hatchling a chicken.

[Dainin]

If the rooster did not come first, the egg would remain unfertilized and there would be no chicken.

 

 

[Marblehead]

What came first?...........the chicken or the egg??

I actually did a search on this once and found that the chicken originated somewhere in Asia (if I remember correctly). So yeah, it comes down to who fertilized the egg.

[Seph]

What came first?...........the chicken or the egg??

...mu...

[3bob]

the chicken came second and the egg came third, and that which can not be named is first

Edited November 24, 2013 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

That gave me a chuckle. Thanks.

[ralis]

The origin of the egg. I wish the OP would read more science and we would not have these crazy discussions.

 

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2bDetailsoforigin.shtml

 

 

How did life originate?

Living things (even ancient organisms like bacteria) are enormously complex. However, all this complexity did not leap fully-formed from the primordial soup. Instead life almost certainly originated in a series of small steps, each building upon the complexity that evolved previously:

 

1. Simple organic molecules were formed.
   Simple organic molecules, similar to the nucleotide shown below, are the building blocks of life and must have been involved in its origin. Experiments suggest that organic molecules could have been synthesized in the atmosphere of early Earth and rained down into the oceans. RNA and DNAmolecules — the genetic material for all life — are just long chains of simple nucleotides.

   

2. Replicating molecules evolved and began to undergo natural selection.
   All living things reproduce, copying their genetic material and passing it on to their offspring. Thus, the ability to copy the molecules that encode genetic information is a key step in the origin of life — without it, life could not exist. This ability probably first evolved in the form of an RNA self-replicator — an RNA molecule that could copy itself.

   

   Many biologists hypothesize that this step led to an "RNA world" in which RNA did many jobs, storing genetic information, copying itself, and performing basic metabolic functions. Today, these jobs are performed by many different sorts of molecules (DNA, RNA, and proteins, mostly), but in the RNA world, RNA did it all.

   Self-replication opened the door for natural selection. Once a self-replicating molecule formed, some variants of these early replicators would have done a better job of copying themselves than others, producing more "offspring." These super-replicators would have become more common — that is, until one of them was accidentally built in a way that allowed it to be a super-super-replicator — and then, that variant would take over. Through this process of continuous natural selection, small changes in replicating molecules eventually accumulated until a stable, efficient replicating system evolved.

    

3. Replicating molecules became enclosed within a cell membrane.
   The evolution of a membrane surrounding the genetic material provided two huge advantages: the products of the genetic material could be kept close by and the internal environment of this proto-cell could be different than the external environment. Cell membranes must have been so advantageous that these encased replicators quickly out-competed "naked" replicators. This breakthrough would have given rise to an organism much like a modern bacterium.

    

   Cell membranes enclose the genetic material.

    

4. Some cells began to evolve modern metabolic processes and out-competed those with older forms of metabolism.
   Up until this point, life had probably relied on RNA for most jobs (as described in Step 2 above). But everything changed when some cell or group of cells evolved to use different types of molecules for different functions: DNA (which is more stable than RNA) became the genetic material, proteins (which are often more efficient promoters of chemical reactions than RNA) became responsible for basic metabolic reactions in the cell, and RNA was demoted to the role of messenger, carrying information from the DNA to protein-building centers in the cell. Cells incorporating these innovations would have easily out-competed "old-fashioned" cells with RNA-based metabolisms, hailing the end of the RNA world.

   

5. Multicellularity evolved.
   As early as two billion years ago, some cells stopped going their separate ways after replicating and evolved specialized functions. They gave rise to Earth's first lineage of multicellular organisms, such as the 1.2 billion year old fossilized red algae in the photo below.

    

   These fossils of Bangiomorpha pubescens are 1.2 billion years old. Toward the lower end of the fossil on the left there are cells differentiated for attaching to a substrate. If you look closely at the upper part of the fossil on the right, you can see longitudinal division that has divided disc-shaped cells into a number of radially arranged wedge-shaped cells, as we would see in a modern bangiophyte red alga.

    

• Bangiomorpha pubescens fossil photos provided by Dr. N.J. Butterfield.

[xor]

No chicken without an egg, no egg without a chicken

 

http://www.dnatube.com/video/2261/Development-of-a-chicken-embryo

[thelerner]

I thought the answer was so obvious that it didn't need to be asked or answered... of course the egg...

 

The more interesting question once we get beyond this is: What laid that egg

Hmmmn, probably a chickasaurous did, unless it was a pterachickadon.

[soaring crane]

chickens are dinosaurs.

[Marblehead]

chickens are dinosaurs.

Just a few times removed. Hehehe.

[Z3N]

So would you say neither? Or that doesn't go down well?

[Aetherous]

What came first: evolution, or intelligent design?

[Z3N]

What came first: evolution, or intelligent design?

 

 

They are one and the same thing.

[Marblehead]

What came first: evolution, or intelligent design?

hehehe. That's a trick question.

 

Evolution, of course, came first because if the universe had not evolved there would be no intelligence to think up the concept of intelligent design.

[Z3N]

Image for a moment that the creation of universal animating force went something along the lines as this(big bang);

 

Like the awareness being aware of awareness for the first time……..

 

“What am I?........I know I will just unfold and find out.”

 

The rise of intelligence

 

(Big bang)

 

The rise of evolution

 

“I am the universe!”

 

Peace and balance

 

(Universe as we know it)

 

The universe is like one big giant supercomputing AI on a galactic scale which of course in a form of intelligence in a unconventional way, which of course is quantified throughout the cosmos.

 

You humans are going through the same process.

 

The Tao exercises all life forms in the animating force to have free will to discover themselves in consequence to this, this is also quantified throughout the cosmos. Destiny also plays a role in the greater scheme of things.

 

So yeah one and the same thing, like all things on a cosmological scale cant have one without the other.

[Marblehead]

Have I mentioned that I'm not good at imagining?

[Brian]

Have I mentioned that I'm not good at imagining?

 

Imagine that!

 

[Stosh]

Thats a trick question , there are no chickens or eggs , such requires definitions which are subjective opinion and arbitrary associations.

EX,,

A car is made of its parts , how many parts define a car ?

Edited November 26, 2013 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Thats a trick question , there are no chickens or eggs , such requires definitions which are subjective opinion and arbitrary associations.

EX,,

A car is made of its parts , how many parts define a car ?

Therein is my condition.

 

I go to the store to buy a dozen eggs. It is a given that they will be chicken eggs else they would be labelled "Duck Eggs".

 

When I go out to but a car I don't ask how many part were used to assemble the car. I ask questions like what size engine does it have, what is the estimated gas mileage, etc.

 

True, the parts had to be made first before the parts could be assenbled but I'm not buying parts, I am buying a complete, assembled, operational car that will provide me the services I expect.

 

So yes, the parts (eggs) came first but the car (chicken) is what is important (unless I want to have fried eggs for breakfast).

[Brian]

Question hinges entirely on whether "egg" means "chicken egg" or just "egg." If the former then the answer is "chicken" but if the latter then the answer is "egg."

[Stosh]

Therein is my condition.

 

I go to the store to buy a dozen eggs. It is a given that they will be chicken eggs else they would be labelled "Duck Eggs".

 

When I go out to but a car I don't ask how many part were used to assemble the car. I ask questions like what size engine does it have, what is the estimated gas mileage, etc.

 

True, the parts had to be made first before the parts could be assenbled but I'm not buying parts, I am buying a complete, assembled, operational car that will provide me the services I expect.

 

So yes, the parts (eggs) came first but the car (chicken) is what is important (unless I want to have fried eggs for breakfast).

Well thats very rational ,

but the chicken and the egg conundrum , has a solution to its conundrum-ness, its not insoluble so I laid out the solution to it. No you dont give a darn about how many parts your car is and neither do I, the point there is to understand, that what is called a car is arbitrary, such as what a chicken is, is arbitrary, as is the number of feathers it has or how much of the oxygen is the blood or its age or whether it has a mole on its foot a brief foray into taxonomy clarifies further just how subjective , that which is considered simple and really clear , is actually arbitrary. ( but yes those simple arbitrary definitions are very practical ) that the definitions are made by "authorities" doesnt change its arbitrariness.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Stosh