opendao Posted November 22, 2013 Zhonglí Quan in Ling Bao Bi Fa (灵宝毕法) said about Alchemy work during sitting cross-legged [盘膝坐] in a motionless calmness and silence [静坐 - Jing zuo = meditation]: 1) "是以日出当用艮卦之时，以养元气。 you don't read what I wrote about preparation and later Xing Gong.... And obviously you have no idea that characters and real practices are different. Dazuo can be a pointer to the practice, it can be a pointer to the state (without real methods how to reach this state), it can be a pointer to other things... Every word has a meaning. And because it's not a pulp fiction text, there are many many levels. Obvious levels are obviously misleading. Instead of posting all these texts, show your own understanding. Try to use logic. By picking random thoughts of random authors you can create any picture you like. It has no sense. Especially, if Yang is Sun for you :-\ 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted November 22, 2013 There is so much explaining of what nei dan isn't, but zero outline of what it is. Forums are weird. Why is this 14 pages of nothing? Because there is no method we get 14 pages of useless information. Those that claim a method are called spiritual capitalist like Ben and Jerry's Ice cream are hippie capitalist. Learn immortality in eight easy lessons proven faster and better then any other system known because it is secret but now available on DVD you too can reach level 72 if you do these basic exercises that beginners do in all other legitimate systems . 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted November 22, 2013 14 pages of useless information. I would argue it is not so useless... otherwise it would never get to 14 pages. It draws out the cynics, debaters, slayers, and lynching party posts in the human condition... While we are maybe no closer to defining the 'truth'... it may just be right in front of our eyes (or fingers--and heart-- typing each post)... 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted November 22, 2013 I would argue it is not so useless... otherwise it would never get to 14 pages. It draws out the cynics, debaters, slayers, and lynching party posts in the human condition... While we are maybe no closer to defining the 'truth'... it may just be right in front of our eyes (or fingers--and heart-- typing each post)... The great image is image-less, the true method is no method, Spoiler alert the secret is out. This does not leave anything to talk about which is counter productive to a forum. The things you mention above keeps me coming back for more at an entertainment level for sure.. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) Because there is no method we get 14 pages of useless information. Those that claim a method are called spiritual capitalist like Ben and Jerry's Ice cream are hippie capitalist. Learn immortality in eight easy lessons proven faster and better then any other system known because it is secret but now available on DVD you too can reach level 72 if you do these basic exercises that beginners do in all other legitimate systems . HA! You are you implying I am a spiritual capitalist, I don't like that!!! You get it? Edited November 22, 2013 by Starjumper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted November 22, 2013 The true method is no method. What a bunch of Bull Shit! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted November 22, 2013 I also want to rest my case... but the lynching party won't give up I take it more metaphorically... The true method is no method [to speak about]... it does not need to be mentioned as a need of the practitioner to be heard. it does not need to be mentioned as a need of the bystanders as they have missed it anyways. For now... Let's get back to 14 pages of speaking of no methods... 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tarmander Posted November 23, 2013 I always liked that Buddhist definition of method: using a thorn to remove another thorn from your skin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted November 23, 2013 HA! You are you implying I am a spiritual capitalist, I don't like that!!! You get it? What are you selling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted November 23, 2013 What a bunch of Bull Shit! What a bunch of Bull Shit! Sorry to burst the bubble.All contrived and manipulating methods are consistently pointed out as not the method of direct transcendence. These secondary methods are great practices for the physical body but what transcends physical form is the point of internal alchemy. Do not use the ingredients of the temporal body to make the elixir of immortality. Use secondary methods for longevity of body mind Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) What are you selling Nothing! However, I am looking forward to sharing one of the most powerful Taoists paths of the wizard with at least one dedicated person. Edited November 23, 2013 by Starjumper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted November 23, 2013 Sorry to burst the bubble.All contrived and manipulating methods are consistently pointed out as not the method of direct transcendence. These secondary methods are great practices for the physical body but what transcends physical form is the point of internal alchemy. Do not use the ingredients of the temporal body to make the elixir of immortality. It appears someone has been reading too many books and likes to play word games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted November 23, 2013 It appears someone has been reading too many books and likes to play word games. Yes it is all word play, the true mercury and true lead is non physical, essence and life. The medicine produced is non physical..What happens spontaneously is called no method. Once self disappears the primordial awareness is opened. There is no skipping steps that is why methods are good but once you drink your tea you do not need the cup any more so it is more about letting things go to reach a level of awareness. Most techniques are like road blocks unless you move them out of the way. If you see Buddha on your path kill him, that is a fun saying and word play at the same time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted November 23, 2013 OK, that's more or less acceptable to me =) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adept Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Neidan is a most natural 'non-practice' It is beautifully explained in the works of Liu I Ming, The Secret Of The Golden Flower (Thomas Cleary translation !), The Yijing, The Dao De Jing, The Zhuangzi, The Yin Convergence Classic, as well as in non-daoist works such as the teachings of Japanese Zen master Bankei. It has absolutely nothing to do with contrived practices such as sitting meditation. Anyone interested in such a 'non-practice' should also read the marvelous posts of deci belle. As I pointed out here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/32406-building-the-foundation-and-inner-alchemy/?p=495913 The alchemical language found in the classics should not be taken literally. They are mere poetic metaphors. Simple ! Edited November 24, 2013 by adept 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted November 24, 2013 Ok, I think I know what you guys are talking about. You're talking about arriving at the formless, aren't you? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) Neidan is a most natural 'non-practice' It is beautifully explained in the works of Liu I Ming, The Secret Of The Golden Flower (Thomas Cleary translation !), The Yijing, The Dao De Jing, The Zhuangzi, The Yin Convergence Classic, as well as in non-daoist works such as the teachings of Japanese Zen master Bankei. OK, well you'll have to forgive my illiteracy. I guess Neidan and Nei Kung are two different things and I assumed they are the same. If Liu I Ming is actually referring to Nei kung then I didn't think he was that stupid, and you guys are throwing the baby out with the bath water. It has absolutely nothing to do with contrived practices such as sitting meditation. More idiocy, sitting meditation is NOT contrived, it is human nature, just specific postures are, and was I talking about sitting meditation here? I don't think so. I will restate. I think you are referring to what is called arriving at the formless in cultivation. Edited November 24, 2013 by Starjumper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adept Posted November 24, 2013 More idiocy, sitting meditation is NOT contrived, it is human nature, just specific postures are, and was I talking about sitting meditation here? I don't think so. It is not idiocy my friend. The sages of old have warned time and time again about these contrived practices. Sitting meditation is not part of human nature. Contemplation and thinking of life's BIG QUESTIONS are a massive part of human nature. PS. I have never questioned or quoted any of your posts so my posting is not directed at you personally. Best wishes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kadesdes Posted November 29, 2013 On the contrary, CD, it is a clear refutation. You claim that oxygen is the answer and your proof is that deprivation of oxygen ends life. I counter by pointing out that oxygen is not the unique requisite you think it is, either for human life or for life in general. I could have pointed out, instead, that much of Earth's life considers life to be a toxin rather than nourishment. Maybe a living organism cannot live without post - energy, but the pre - energy aspect of the being continues just fine without being nourished by oxygen for example. But this also implies that the organism cannot live without pre or post energy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xor Posted November 29, 2013 Regarding Neidan, is following human nature the right path to take or just the starting point? Can we find our true nature by contemplation alone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adept Posted November 29, 2013 Regarding Neidan, is following human nature the right path to take or just the starting point? Can we find our true nature by contemplation alone? There can be no other starting point ! One thing certain to us is that we are human, and as such, have certain contemplative qualities. It is human nature that drives us to look for answers to life's BIG QUESTIONS. Without human nature we become detached and emotionless. A shell without any substance. In the past I meditated every day and even took to attending Buddhist monasteries for what I thought was correct instruction. After a time I noticed I was becoming more and more detached from the world, something I never wanted to happen when I started my spiritual journey. I never found my true nature by meditating. I realized it didn't need to be found when I stopped meditating. I'm not implying in any way that there is no benefit from meditating. That would be a foolish thing to say. It works for a hell of a lot of folks. I just don't think it's compatible with modern living. I believe that meditation is for monks/hermits and not for laypeople. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xor Posted November 29, 2013 (edited) So maybe my habit of asking questions is not bad after all? That would be good news since I always have alot of those. I just started reading up on Neidan starting from Fabrizio Pregadio's Foundations of Internal Alchemy and maybe find out more of the basics. edit: edited out parts this post possibly made that look a bit sarcastic... this was not intended Edited November 29, 2013 by xor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) Adept, I have a question. You speak as if all methods are contrived. Can you point to any method that is not contrived? Oh yes, I looked up Neidan and on wiki and found it is not the same as nei kung. However it did show people meditating. Yet you say it doesn't include meditating. Why is that? Edited November 30, 2013 by Starjumper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2012 Posted November 30, 2013 Nothing wrong with sitting meditation nor using other methods that some call "non-contrived". Why can't people just do their thing and not force their truth on others? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted November 30, 2013 Don't worry Chris, Mr. Adept has the whole thing backwards and incorrect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
