What would it feel like to tear the lower dan tien?

[KenBrace]

Does anyone have any idea of what it would feel like to tear the lower dan tien? I know most people adhere to the 72 hour (some say one week) rule, because after all no one wants to risk tearing their dan tien but are their any stories of people who have?

[qijack]

Great pain, suffering, followed by slow death haha. To be honest. Is it really possible? this is something that originates from the mopai school and probably only applies once you have reached a very high level. But I would imagine a teared Dan tien wouldn't be able hold enough chi to generate heat and vibrations so you would never be able to progress

[KenBrace]

Its painless.

 

How do you know?

[KenBrace]

Great pain, suffering, followed by slow death haha. To be honest. Is it really possible? this is something that originates from the mopai school and probably only applies once you have reached a very high level. But I would imagine a teared Dan tien wouldn't be able hold enough chi to generate heat and vibrations so you would never be able to progress

 

Haha I'm not sure but I think it might actually work the opposite way. The dan tien can be torn when cultivating chi in the lower levels but doesn't apply to training in the higher levels. I'm not sure if the dan tien can be torn in the higher levels or not but I know it can in the lower ones. That's at least what Chang said and I'm not willing to bet my LDT that he's wrong lol.

[h.uriahr]

My previous experience leads me to believe that ejaculation isn't such a big deal. I never suffered after "cumming". With that said my practice has changed dramatically and making love to my wife doesn't harm me one bit now either.

[KenBrace]

My previous experience leads me to believe that ejaculation isn't such a big deal. I never suffered after "cumming". With that said my practice has changed dramatically and making love to my wife doesn't harm me one bit now either.

 

What system do you study?

[h.uriahr]

What system do you study?

 

I used to study Temple Style Tai Chi with a combo of tummo, shaking, revers breathing, etc.

NOW I'm a die hard Christian. My Practice is recitation of the Prayer of the Heart, Intense Prayer Sessions, Praise and Worship plus Scriptural study. Faith working is included as well like tithing, etc.

[steve]

Does anyone have any idea of what it would feel like to tear the lower dan tien? I know most people adhere to the 72 hour (some say one week) rule, because after all no one wants to risk tearing their dan tien but are their any stories of people who have?

 

The lower dan tian is not a structure made of tissue, hence it can't tear in the sense that one tears paper or a spleen.

Qi awareness, IME, is about becoming progressively more sensitive and aware of physical manifestation at an energetic level rather than storing some imaginary 'stuff' in an imaginary organ.

Just my $.02, FWIW.

[KenBrace]

The lower dan tian is not a structure made of tissue, hence it can't tear in the sense that one tears paper or a spleen.

Qi awareness, IME, is about becoming progressively more sensitive and aware of physical manifestation at an energetic level rather than storing some imaginary 'stuff' in an imaginary organ.

Just my $.02, FWIW.

 

From what I understand the three dan tiens aren't physical organs like a kidney but instead are energy centers (kind of like chakras). Energy can be stored there.

 

Becoming more aware of your energy is useless because so what if you can feel it? It doesn't add power. It's like becoming aware of a muscle. You're not accomplishing anything unless you build more muscle and add strength.

[KenBrace]

Then be sure to choose an authentic, viable and SAFE cultivation system. Yes?

 

Indeed.

[h.uriahr]

From what I understand the three dan tiens aren't physical organs like a kidney but instead are energy centers (kind of like chakras). Energy can be stored there.

 

Becoming more aware of your energy is useless because so what if you can feel it? It doesn't add power. It's like becoming aware of a muscle. You're not accomplishing anything unless you build more muscle and add strength.

 

Awareness IMO is very important. Using your muscle example, becoming more aware of the muscles in the lower back, glutes, hams, and quads will certainly sky rocket your Deadlift. Once you feel the energy, like really feel it, it helps boost your cultivation practice to a level that is indescribable really.

 

Everyone told me that I had the Holy Spirit and I "knew" I had it but it wasn't until 2 Sundays ago during Praise that as I was crying out to God H A R D, then I FELT *F E L T* the Holy Spirit decend upon me from heaven! After that my walk/cultivation has taken on a whole new meaning.

 

My 2 pesos

[steve]

Becoming more aware of your energy is useless ....

 

Good luck with your training.

[KenBrace]

Awareness IMO is very important. Using your muscle example, becoming more aware of the muscles in the lower back, glutes, hams, and quads will certainly sky rocket your Deadlift. Once you feel the energy, like really feel it, it helps boost your cultivation practice to a level that is indescribable really.

 

Everyone told me that I had the Holy Spirit and I "knew" I had it but it wasn't until 2 Sundays ago during Praise that as I was crying out to God H A R D, then I FELT *F E L T* the Holy Spirit decend upon me from heaven! After that my walk/cultivation has taken on a whole new meaning.

 

My 2 pesos

 

Yes I agree with you that feeling the energy helps but it won't get you very far as far as internal power goes. If you really want to develop internal strength you need to cultivate and build up energy.

 

Interesting experience btw!

[KenBrace]

Good luck with your training.

 

When I said that learning to feel energy is useless I didn't entirely mean it. It does help a little but won't get you very far if you're trying to develop internal power.

[KenBrace]

What exactly do you mean by "trying to develop?"

 

Well in Mo Pai the first step to developing the dan tien is to store yang chi into the dan tien through meditation. In level two the yang is compressed and twice as much is packed into the LDT (lower dan tien). By this time the dan tien is packed so full that it actually becomes "hardened" and can be externally seen moving around once it becomes mobile in level 3. In level 4 the yang you have cultivated is fused with the yin in the dan tien and the real training begins. Each level past level 4 doubles the power you previously had. Level 10 for example is 64 times more powerful than level 4. This is basically what I mean when I'm talking about developing internal power.

[KenBrace]

What exactly do you mean by "trying to develop?"

 

Just learning to feel what little tiny but of energy you have now won't help you that much. If you really want to progress you have to cultivate and store this energy so that you are able to use it.

[KenBrace]

And is this "chi packing" technique the way that you go about "trying to develop" your ldt? I hear it is dangerous.

It's completely safe as long as you have a valid training system and you obey the warning rules.

Edited August 25, 2013 by KenBrace

[steve]

If you know what you're doing, why did you ask the original question?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just concerned for your health.

Do you have a qualified instructor for Mo Pai training?

 

PS - You have more than a little tiny bit of energy, even now - when you learn how to be fully aware, you have access to limitless energy

[KenBrace]

If you know what you're doing, why did you ask the original question?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just concerned for your health.

Do you have a qualified instructor for Mo Pai training?

 

PS - You have more than a little tiny bit of energy, even now - when you learn how to be fully aware, you have access to limitless energy

I'm practicing Mo Pai Nei Kung which is a very old and refined system.

 

I asked the original question because I haven't personally torn my LDT so I have no idea what it would feel like. I know what I'm doing as far as training technique goes.

 

We have a lot of energy now but it's almost nothing compared to what you will have if you cultivate. Saying that becoming aware gives you access to limitless energy is like saying that becoming aware of your muscular system with give you limitless strength. You have to build muscle if you want more strength, and you have to build up energy if you want more internal strength.

Edited August 25, 2013 by KenBrace

[KenBrace]

I have spoken with one who utilizes this technique. And did not get the impression that there is "complete" safety with the practice. This practitioner appears to be above average in his fitness, but he shared that the packing is intense.

Are you working with a teacher? And, if not, how do you really "know what you are doing?"

 

I'm not directly a student but I've received advise and help a guy that is a current student. At my level the packing hasn't gotten that intense yet but it will.

[dwai]

I'm practicing Mo Pai Nei Kung which is a very old and refined system.

 

I asked the original question because I haven't personally torn my LDT so I have no idea what it would feel like. I know what I'm doing as far as training technique goes.

 

We have a lot of energy now but it's almost nothing compared to what you will have if you cultivate. Saying that becoming aware gives you access to limitless energy is like saying that becoming aware of your muscular system with give you limitless strength. You have to build muscle if you want more strength, and you have to build up energy if you want more internal strength.

It is not possible to "tear" one's dan tien. Why? Like Steve pointed out, it is not made of physical material, it is an energy vortex. You can make it weak or strong by increasing the vibrational frequency of your energy (Qi).

 

If it becomes too weak, it results in poor health and one eventually dies. If it is strong, there are associated health benefits from it as well as the ability to influence one's environment energetically.

[KenBrace]

It is not possible to "tear" one's dan tien. Why? Like Steve pointed out, it is not made of physical material, it is an energy vortex. You can make it weak or strong by increasing the vibrational frequency of your energy (Qi).

 

If it becomes too weak, it results in poor health and one eventually dies. If it is strong, there are associated health benefits from it as well as the ability to influence one's environment energetically.

 

"Tearing" the dan tien doesn't literally mean that you are tearing it. I'm not sure exactly what is going on but it could have something to do with the nervous system that brings energy to the dan tien. When the dan tien is "torn" it might mean that the nerve fibers that feed it tear. I'm not really sure about all this but I'm practicing Mo Pai and the top master of Mo Pai is John Chang and I'm not willing to bet my dan tien that he's wrong. Best just to trust that he knows what he's talking about.

[steve]

We have a lot of energy now but it's almost nothing compared to what you will have if you cultivate. Saying that becoming aware gives you access to limitless energy is like saying that becoming aware of your muscular system with give you limitless strength. You have to build muscle if you want more strength, and you have to build up energy if you want more internal strength.

 

I disagree - Qi is not muscle, Qi is not physical stuff, Qi is not even energy as the word is usually understood in English.

Qi isn't something that can be restrained or restricted, it can't be contained.

You are comparing apples to oranges...

 

Qi is much closer to you than you think, it is inextricably related to awareness and sensitivity.

Daoist cultivation (and Buddhist, for that matter) is ultimately more about letting go than adding on.

Every atom in your body already has the energy of the sun within it.

It is always already there. It is more about connecting with and learning to manifest what is always, and has always been, already there.

 

Energy is not a good English translation of the characters for Qi (氣, 炁) in my opinion, that is one reason why Qi is so misunderstood.

It conjures up too many expectations and preconceptions for the English speaker.

I really like the Tibetan word lung (sounds like loong), which means wind.

It's also very instructive to keep in mind that the commonly used character, 氣, is also the character for breath or air.

The other, more archaic character, 炁, is only found in old Daoist charms and writings but refers to the subtle "energy" or life force that is distinct from air or breath, so the concepts are not equivalent but they are closely related.

 

Anyway, all this is just my opinion and I acknowledge that most folks will disagree.

I just like to hear myself lecture sometimes...

Sorry for that.

 

Be careful with the Mo Pai methods if you don't have an experienced teacher.

Good luck with your practice.

[steve]

PS -

I have seen folks cause themselves pretty serious physical harm with the martial qigong methods.

I've seen a guy give himself bilateral inguinal hernias from the packing exercises.

That literally is a tearing of the abdominal fascia that allows the intestines to herniate through the abdominal wall.

It's possible that this is where the concept of "tearing" the lower dan tian comes from.

That's just speculation on my part.

I'll defer to the Mo Pai experts about that.

[ॐDominicusॐ]

I mean the whole mo pai system is cool, entertaining, and does give you power over various elements, but Where is Enlightenment in all this??? I don't see it

 

All these levels and work just to master level 1 after several years, and then several more to master level 2, ad infinitum, and no one has ever reached level 100, and so forth.

 

It seems like a distraction to Enlightenment. Like you are walking somewhere, and see the most beautiful woman in the world, perfect body, skirt, heels, smells incredible, looks heavenly...

 

and she tells you, "I'm sure you like what you see, but to get me, it's going to take years of work with no guarantees that you will get me in the end."

 

I'm sorry to say, but in my eyes, it just seems like the biggest ego trap of the 10,000 things that there is.

 

According to some schools of thought, get Enlightenment first, then all the channels naturally open and all forms of cultivation thereafter are cakewalk

Edited August 25, 2013 by ॐDominicusॐ