Does breathing play a significant role in your practice....?

[ChiDragon]

How could one possibly practice without abdominal breathing?

 

Based on some posts here, I have noticed that some members indicated abdominal breathing does not play a significant role. The reason for this thread is to hear from those people and hope they give me a better reason for not including AB in their practices.

Edited August 11, 2013 by ChiDragon

[steve]

How would one breath without using the abdomen?

[ChiDragon]

How would one breath without using the abdomen?

 

Some only use chest breathing.

[steve]

I doubt that very many people are capable of isolating the breathing to the chest only - it is virtually impossible, in fact.

 

The natural method of breathing incorporates 3 basic sets of muscles and they start from the bottom and work upwards in order of importance.

The breath initiates with contraction of the diaphragm and relaxation of the abdominal muscles.

This is the primary mechanism and is aided by engagement of accessory muscles like the iliopsoas, etc...

The secondary mechanism is the intercostal muscles supported by accessory muscles such as serratus anterior and posterior.

The tertiary mechanism includes several muscles around the neck and shoulders such as the scalene muscles.

 

The average person (and, in fact, just about everyone) is practicing abdominal breathing all of the time, even if they are not aware of it.

 

I think that perhaps you are asking whether or not people are focusing their attention on their breathing and to what extent that is the primary focus of their practice. It does appear to be the case in your practice - but that is just an assumption on my part.

[ChiDragon]

If one know how to do AB, then it's no problem and one can take it for granted. However, some don't but need to be correct.
Difference in Breathing

Edited August 11, 2013 by ChiDragon

[steve]

Do you think that we are born not knowing how to breathe "correctly"?

Is breathing something that needs to be learned?

[ChiDragon]

Hey Chidragon, pick up the Bruce Frantzis' Longevity DVD and CD. Abdomen breathing is only one part. He goes as far as breathing from the sides, lower back, kidneys, and surprisingly the upper back which involves the very top of the lungs.

 

Some claimed they can breathe the skin. Okay, I go along with that. However, as long one is breathing with the nose, any part on the body that breathes at the same time too, I'll believe you.

[ChiDragon]

Steve.....
I think malikshreds answered your question.


Edited to add:
Thanks malikshreds..........

Edited August 11, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Dr_D]

When we are talking about breathing, it is not just the physical mechanical breathing.

We have 3 breaths: Physical breathing (Jing), Energetic Breathing (Qi) and Spiritual Breathing (Shen). They are different. It is important for them to be trained in that order.

After a couple of years of consistent daily training of the physical breath, eventually you will start breathing through the meridians and after a few years of that you will be breathing with your spirit.

 

Most people want to start with the most advanced training. This is not wise and can lead to them hurting themselves. The foundational pieces are most important and in any training, you get as much as you put in.

[steve]

Lol we learned bad posture from our society, we learned to always be tense, so you;re saying that we can't relearn the correct way to breathe. Funny because people be like I know how to breathe but they hyperventilate all the time lol.

 

 

Steve.....

I think malikshreds answered your question.

 

 

Yes and no - I agree with you, malikshreds, that we develop a lot of tension and bad habits and there is no question that we can always refine our posture, breathing, and so forth. At the same time, I think that we can sometimes over-think things that are very simple and very natural. While it is valuable to bring one's attention to the breath, it is also important to let the body do what it has always known how to do. There is certainly value in attending to the breathing and being aware of a healthy pattern, then there are other things to attend to while the breath is allowed to breath itself.

[voidisyinyang]

[voidisyinyang]

sorry - I was just wondering if he was secretly a Taoist priest.

 

Oh yeah so what's it like to do "shen breathing" - is this the immortal breathing level - chi energy up and shen down with next to no physical breathing?

 

So you sit in full lotus for 4 hours nonstop every night?

 

or.....

 

maybe Chef Boyardee does that.

[ChiDragon]

Yes and no -

 

As far as this thread is concern, your response is suffice.

[thelerner]

 

Why did you let it go, instead of continuing for life.....???

Because even forgotten, the practice stays with me. I want to forget and just do it.

 

Do you think that we are born not knowing how to breathe "correctly"?

Is breathing something that needs to be learned?

I think most of us breath poorly. Its as if we're in such a hurry we've forgotten to breathe deeply. And with deep breath comes greater peace and vitality.

[dawei]

I think Steve is on point, as usual, and Malik brings up the practical lack that our culture and environment clouds.

 

AB breathing is important but it is but a part; and practices are too wide-spread and varied to try and fit AB to everything except it is fundamental (first base).

 

There are just too many practices where breathing (or attention to breathing or intention to breath) is not fundamental. I think that the purpose of this thread was not so much to explore all these other areas but to simply ask how important is the base.

 

There are routines I do which don't care about AB breathing... One needs to want to explore this 'beyond' part; again, I don't think the OP wants to do that.

[ChiDragon]

I think that the purpose of this thread was not so much to explore all these other areas but to simply ask how important is the base.

 

 

Nothing else need to be said.....!!!

[Jetsun]

Not for me, I did breath work for a while but found it too contrived, Gurdjieff pointed out how trying to manipulate the breath can cause all sorts of health problems and organ weaknesses and had to treat many people who suffered in this way. He says you need to really study and know yourself first because by manipulating the breath you are changing the tempo and function of the primary survival mechanisms in your body, so you really need to know if it is what you need and how to do it before you change such a primary function.

[joeblast]

context...I'm sure he wasnt referring to water methods, that would be silly.

[ChiDragon]

Not for me, I did breath work for a while but found it too contrived, Gurdjieff pointed out how trying to manipulate the breath can cause all sorts of health problems and organ weaknesses and had to treat many people who suffered in this way. He says you need to really study and know yourself first because by manipulating the breath you are changing the tempo and function of the primary survival mechanisms in your body, so you really need to know if it is what you need and how to do it before you change such a primary function.

 

That is where the correction comes into play. When one said do AB, with difficulty in breathing, one doesn't just jump right into it. It has to be done progressively with proper guidance. Most people said they do Chi Kung but they don't even know what it is and claim they were practicing it.

Edited August 13, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Sketch]

Part of the route to my current practice involved investigating resonance frequency breathing.

I made recordings of my breath work over time, providing myself with proof that I was able to slow my heart rate by synchronizing it with my breath. This drew me to explore further.

 

In my current practice, the mechanisms of breath still control and inform the movement in my tissues, but when things are rolling along, the breath and my pulses are independent of one another. 

 

Outside my regular practice time I find myself humming into my body, and chanting. I seem to be becoming more resonant, and I can make things buzz, especially in my spine.  I have always sang a lot and come to this with a well developed diaphragm so playing with sound and resonance is what I cannot resist.

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Sketch

[Fu_doggy]

To the OP's original question:  I start my day with 20 minutes of abdominal breathing.  This is one of the more basic of qigong practices, however, it works well for me.   After that I go on to other practices.  

[thelerner]

Sometimes its nice to separate breath work from meditation, ie work on breathing patterns then when you meditate it's longer and smoother because of the breathwork.

 

There are many apps for people to create there own pattern.  Breathing Mantra on youtube has lots of nice 30 minute breath cycles.  Equal in out.  3 way.  4 way 'box' breathing.  Lots of timings and variations.  Plus nice tones.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnGh6CcWVAv2GpiiOj3nGYQ

[awaken]

Breathing doesn't play a significant role in my practice. It just a door, a beginning, in my practice. Maybe after one or several breathing, I would go into another stages.