JINGQISHEN < > SHENQIJING

[effilang]

This was going to be a personal message to Drew, but I figured I'd get more feedback like this!

 

Have you had any experience with internal cultivation methods that are classified as Yang to Yin rather than the conventional Yin to Yang process of transmutation?

 

The standard nowadays seems to be a process of transformation beginning with the JING then transmuting to QI and then to SHEN, but what about methods that first start work with SHEN then build QI and then JING?

 

The method we are most familiar with follows this pathway: JING to QI to SHEN, then you leap over TAIJI into WUJI. In this method we use the body to cultivate the energy (thrust) needed to propel the conscious SHEN out of the body and into the WUJI.

 

However, long ago it seems there was a separation in the schools. One division came about the spiritual skills derived from meditation, well, through meditation, and when they reached the ultimate goal, they wrote down instruction manuals or transmitted their accumulated knowledge by word.

 

But, there is another division, where Instead of passing on the information in word or written format, so that new disciples would have to start from JING to QI to SHEN on their own, the teachers rather used their established connection to the WUJI to directly connect their disciples' SHEN to the Wuji energy.

 

In this second method, the disciples Bai Hui is opened immediately during the magical initiation carried out by the master and the energy begins to flow into the disciple from the WUJI, starting a SHEN > QI > JING process of transmutation, an inverse process to what we are normally used to!

Disciples of such schools can directly connect to spirits and immortals existing in the WUJI for guidance and for energy.

Further more. And this is quite interesting! It seems that practitioners of these schools, do not need to stop having sex. They can continue their sexual lives far into the practice of the school and manifestation of all manner of spiritual skill. The only other one I know that claims to do this is Mo Pai.

 

When having a conversation with one practitioner of the system, a practitioner of over 20 years, he explained to me that JING is not semen. Ok, so I could agree with him on that, but it still didn't explain why us "normal" alchemy dudes had to meditate so much to cook the JING.

 

And then it hit me! JING > QI > SHEN > QI > JING it is a closed loop system that works bidirectionally.

All three of the treasures are actually the same one primordial energy but vibrating at different levels.

So we make JING vibrate faster so that it begins to climb up the electromagnetic spectrum and produce QI, and then we vibrate QI higher up the EM spectrum to produce SHEN.

 

(I know some people will say that's not possible! That you need to develop the ability of the body to process and digest and use energies of higher vibrations or you can cook your innards! But why? We have sunlight that we can't touch but can see and it interact with our body every day. We have radio waves of all sorts of frequencies travelling through our bodies from every which direction. Sure we haven't developed enough to seem them, but can you say they are not influencing our body's energetic function?)

 

So you can manually increase the vibration of WOOD (JING) by rubbing two sticks together to create FIRE (QI) which emits heat and light (SHEN). There it is, JING QI SHEN.

 

Conversely, you can use concentrated light to create fire to burn wood. SHEN, QI, JING!

You can literally start the alchemical process from any of the treasures. You can start from JING or from QI or from SHEN. One will feed the other and they will nourish each other in the loop system.

 

Which one we start to ACCUMULATE depends on whether we can find a resource for the respective energy. And what's the most common resource for us? - Of course JING! - So that's what we do, we accumulate that first, but with the reverse method, they get an infusion of SHEN by letting the master connect them directly to the WUJI through the Bai Hui so they can suck SHEN in. The process is completely reversed!

Because of that, these guys don't have to stop having sex and rely on the JING to build the system but the SHEN instead, because that is where you start from!

 

I suspect that this is how the Xiao Yao Pai system works, and once practitioners are initiated by the master, they immediately open their Bai Hui and connect to the Wuji to communicate with spirits and interact with SHEN level energetics.

 

As you may know there will be an initiation event in London for Xiao Yao Pai next month.

There will also be one in Virginia in the USA, you might be interested in checking it out if you live in the USA.

 

I've heard some remarkable things from a number of different members practising the system.

If you can make it to London by next month, check out the event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/345257788909902/

Please share your thoughts.

[Kasuku]

Shen jing qi - this is returning the light first - attain the white light of your yuan shen, then you will have true jing and true qi - so you do 100 days and burn the yuan jing into yuan chi and your set for your ten months to build the fetus

 

Now for us wordily practitioners who dont have yet a master - this is very hard

 

I didnt even know this was what you were supposed to do until like a month ago otherwise i wouldn't have converted my post natal jing to postnatal qi (anyway i was practicing a different system) so now im going like a round about way...

 

but anyway you still get the same thing in the end -

[voidisyinyang]

The only part you got wrong is that you claim you can still have sex if you are relying on getting shen transmissions.

 

That is not true.

 

Everything else you said is true.

 

The thing about shen transmission - is that it turns back into jing energy for the student - and so the student still has to build up the jing energy!!

 

The jing energy is the foundation.

 

For example I practiced well - got strong chi and began to build up shen - I went to the Level 3 retreat and I could smell this dude in the front of the conference room - a room full of 200 people and I could barely stay in the same room with that one dude even though I was way in the back - but no one else seemed to notice.

 

Then the qigong masters said that qigong masters can smell cancer as rotting flesh like death. That was the smell! Then the dude said he had come up from Arizona to get special healing. So I figured he had cancer.

 

O.K. I had been fasting for 8 days on just half a glass of water - so my energy was very pure and I was into the shen realm and so when Chunyi Lin sent this man energy his rotting flesh death smell went away! Yeah!!

 

So then ironically we go back to our respective little 1950s cabin rooms - a retreat in the forest - and ironically the dude had his room next to me and I could smell his rotting flesh smell through the walls! Why? Because I could also hear - through the thin walls -- his female lover was there sucking off his energy that Chunyi had given him. haha.

 

Now here I am smelling this dude's rotting flesh and hearing them have sex and I'm thinking - how can that female even stand to be in the same room with him!! But obviously she could not smell the cancer.

 

So that's just one example - umm -- but I hope you get my point.

[effilang]

Indeed! Drew, you know me on here man. I agree with you. BUT - we have to assume that since we all exist in the TAIJI that we are governed by the law of YIN and YANG, so if it can be done going UP, it CAN be done going DOWN. - Once you leap out of TAIJI into WUJI then we can talk about absolutisms, but while we are still under the hierarchical influence of both forces of the TAIJI, we MUST assume that there are both completely YIN methods and both completely YANG methods available, which could be in completely opposite directions, but STILL, COMPLIMENTARY, such as is the TAIJI energetic interaction by which all living things and energies a product of it ARE governed by!

 

Lets try to be open minded! : )

 

Rather than allow what we have learned become the obstruction to the growth of our knowledge, let us entertain the possibility of alternate modalities of practice and hypothesize on how they may come about

Edited July 27, 2013 by effilang

[voidisyinyang]

Right - it's a matter of meeting the teacher halfway! So Chunyi jokes about how people want him to make them enlightened - you know "just take me deep into meditation!!" But the thing is people are not ready for that yet!

 

For example when I was at that Level 3 retreat I just went up to Chunyi during the break and ask: "What should I do?" and he said: "Let me read your aura" - now I didn't tell him I had fasted for 8 days on half a glass of water!! haha. I had been meditating and building up my chi energy.

 

So then he answered - "keep your mouth shut" - and it was a Zen answer with more than one meaning!! Of course being a stupid Westerner I wanted it to mean ONE thing -- but really it was like a secret initiation meaning.

 

So then Chunyi left the room and I went back to my seat to wait for the break to end - suddenly the middle of my brain was on FIRE - and I mean really on FIRE - and I knew right away that Chunyi was working on me - long distance - and the purpose of Level 3 is to open the third eye.

 

But having the middle of the brain on fire is kind of unexpected - and my brain could not handle it - I just wanted the meditation to end. haha.

 

Jim Nance did the same to me five years later when he said he was going upstairs to do more full lotus meditation and I asked if I could join him and he said: "Maybe later." Of course I had no idea that meant when I biked home and went into meditation that suddenly the middle of my brain would be ON FIRE. haha. Again I had to stop meditating.

 

So the thing is - like Poonjaji - he did a shakti or shen transmission to this white dude in India and the dude was running around for a couple days yelling that he was Jesus. haha. So after that Poonjaji made sure to be more careful about his shakti transmissions.

 

Jim said the same to me - he said at first he called on too much energy -- more than was necessary.

 

.....

 

So for example Jim says how I have a brain blockage and when Chunyi did a third eye transmission to me with his finger to my forehead - that was after I had stopped practicing and my channels had closed up but I still had some opening left and so I got this permanent magnetic bliss.

 

Jim said that the permanent magnetic bliss sensation is actually a brain blockage and Chunyi was just trying to work on that brain blockage and if the third eye was fully open then I wouldn't have any chi sensation in my brain at all.....

 

So... the thing is to purify the energy again to be able to handle the power of the shen energy -- but of course most people do not purify their energy enough to be able to receive the real transmisisons.

 

So the ego of the people are like - dude where's my third eye opening? haha. Like - maybe it's not for real or something! No - it's just that they wouldn't be able to handle it.

 

Jim said - I asked him if he was born with his third eye fully open since he reported in his qi-talk last time how when he was in his crib he could see the movements of people around the house and when people touched him JIm could know and see and feel and experience what those people had experienced, etc.

 

Jim said - no his third eye was not fully open because he still had too much fear!!

 

So Jim says the real key to going into the Emptiness is the kidney jing energy has to be built up to get beyond the fear....

 

 

[effilang]

btw DREW. Just because you may loose some SHEN, which deconverts to QI and then to JING in order to facilitate sexual expenditure, it does not mean you loose ALL your SHEN at once.

 

Also, it is well known that as you advance in practice you ability to absorb much larger quantities of energy, more efficiently and more quickly, INCREASES. Thus, at some point, the energy lost during ejaculation will be unnoticeable compared to the current reservoir.

 

Similarly, if you are working through alchemy in the normal way JING QI SHEN, and have sex you don't lose all your JING at once, it's a partial loss that comes with the sexual act.

 

I am speculating here : )
I'm expecting to have some practitioners of the system chip in soon, to give us their point of view.

[voidisyinyang]

btw DREW. Just because you may loose some SHEN, which deconverts to QI and then to JING in order to facilitate sexual expenditure, it does not mean you loose ALL your SHEN at once.

 

Also, it is well known that as you advance in practice you ability to absorb much larger quantities of energy, more efficiently and more quickly, INCREASES. Thus, at some point, the energy lost during ejaculation will be unnoticeable compared to the current reservoir.

 

Similarly, if you are working through alchemy in the normal way JING QI SHEN, and have sex you don't lose all your JING at once, it's a partial loss that comes with the sexual act.

 

I am speculating here : )

I'm expecting to have some practitioners of the system chip in soon, to give us their point of view.

 

 

ummm -- my local qigong friend in his Free Friday healing asked Jim about how much energy - he goes Jim I heard you lose - it takes like five days to recover the energy lost from ejaculation.

 

Jim said it takes about 9 days.

 

ummm....

 

So yeah it is an issue of "stabilization" - like Master Nan, Huai-chin talks about this. A person can have a deep energy experience but that does not mean they have "stabilized" at that level.

 

So I have stabilized where I have this permanent magnetic bliss - but it is nothing compared to the enlightenment experience that I had in 2000.....

 

ummm -- so it takes a lot of jing energy to make chi energy and a lot of chi energy to make shen energy.

 

Vice versa - a little shen energy to make a lot of jing energy.

 

But what happens is the qigong master just gives a person a little shen energy but then the person burns off that jing energy pretty fast.

 

O.K. so lets say you get jing energy from food - it's relatively easy to get food - compared to a shen transmission from a qigong master.

 

But food is dirty energy! So it has to be purified through meditation anyway.

 

Most people they just cycle by eating food to increase their jing energy - it is still negative jing energy as blissful heat - and then they lose that energy. And so they just keep cycling like that.

 

So most people they get a shen transmission - but to build on it they would have to keep meditating more to keep purifying their energy more.

[effilang]

I agree with that! The kidney energy is very important. Especially with getting rid of fear.

 

But, we have to remember its a cyclical interaction taking place! So, SHEN > QI > JING > QI > SHEN

 

Which means that whether you go UP or DOWN, the 5 Yin organs will still be purified and looped back into the next energy.

It doesn't mean that if you start from the top down that you will get stuck somewhere and skip any of the organ purification!

 

NO? : )

[voidisyinyang]

O.K. another way Chunyi Lin explains this is like building a house - you have to have a strong foundation of jing energy to then build on first.

 

So even if you get a shen transmission - it turns into jing energy first if you need that jing energy. The foundation has to be built up to be able to handle stronger shen energy to then create a shen foundation.

[effilang]

Precisely! A higher vibration (SHEN) has less resistance when moving through denser objects, in the same way that a radio wave can deliver a message and effortlessly move through a brick wall! So if you start with SHEN you can complete the alchemical process faster as the transmutation is quicker.

But if we take JING as a start, it takes a lot more physical effort to contain and transmute the dense material to a finer material!

[effilang]

Nevermind temporary SHEN transmission! What if you are directly and permanently connected to a high vibrational energy outlet?

 

What if your Bai Hui can be opened immediately to absorb high vibrations of energy from the SUN, MOON, STARS, PLANETS and the WUJI directly? - In theory, instead of accumulating JING through food and air (YIN nourishment), to accumulate SHEN through Yang nourishment and build SHEN directly?!

 

What say ye!

Edited July 27, 2013 by effilang

[voidisyinyang]

I agree with that - this is why fasting can be a very quick way to create chi energy.

 

But not just normal fasting - it has to be meditation fasting but this process actually means

 

converting "jing to chi" energy.

 

So that is what Master Nan, Huai-chin calls the energy fasting or bigu.

 

So basically the mind is concentrated - focused - and since there is no food - then by concentrating the mind the mind is stronger.

 

Fasting makes the mind more easily to concentrate -- this is the purification -

 

And so only by total mind concentration does the shen energy get increased to then increase the jing energy.

 

So normally I rely on food to increase jing energy - this makes me smell like crap because the food automatically goes to my brain! haha. It's terrible.

 

Otherwise I have to meditate for four hours with total mind concentration and then I can increase my jing energy.

 

This is much better - the jing energy is pure jing energy - but sitting in my room with total mind concentration - it creates also a spacetime vortex - a dimensional shift - and that means exorcising the jing blockages of the people around me! So people around me freak out - wondering what I am doing in my room, accuse me of being lazy, etc. haha.

 

So then it takes secret practice at night but that requires less sleep at night which means maybe taking a nap doing the day or adjusting my schedule.

 

For example thinking - left brain focus - depletes a lot of jing energy - and so all the work I do online - the play-work - I would have to cut back on that....

 

So yeah these are all numerous factors - emotion is the main one.....

 

But the jing to chi conversion by fasting is dangerous because if mind focus is not maintained - then jing energy is lost through emotional release - getting any of the lower emotional blockages.

[Marks of Glory]

Cheers Effilang.

 

I believe that som ethings are quite right about what you said.

 

When practicing some yoga practices, such as Nadi Shodhana Pranayama with long periods of retention, on the right proportions, ofcourse, you start opening up higher chakras before the lower ones.

 

But there are some problems with this.... you lose completely your roots, your shen disperses insanely and you cannot ground it easily (that is, only after you "burn um lots of past karmas / mental latencies" you are safe; which kind of reminds me of the "pure yang" state which taoists aim at cultivation). That is why, if you want to tread the path of Pranayama seriously, it is recomended that you withdraw yourself from society for a while.

 

on my personal experience.. I started cultivating with pranayama... it opened alot my Shen.. I went insane for some time, it was terribible... then I started practicing Qigong, and straight away I started developing very strong Qi sensations.. probably because my shen was wide opened / deveoped... so it seems to be a little harder to hold my intent at my lower dantien, but as soon as i do it, energy starts rumbling straing away down here... kinda violently, probably because of my opened shen, i guess... it feels like compression, like and inverted triangle...

 

about ejaculation... well... my practice started opening the shen.. which means that my energy body was in a mushroom like shape: Big at the top... no very grounded.... I found that, whenever I ejaculate, this patters accentuates; I get more balloon headed, less grounded... and i feel lots of cold, as if my vitality were out of my body (on top of my head), not cool.... I guess that it really is dangerous for people that cultivate too much shen and no Jing to ejaculate, if their body is weak, well... their vitality can escape their body in a way that could result in death. seems very plausible from my experiences, some times I would even have breath shortages, felt like dying...

 

 

hoped this helped

[tendou]

Jim said - no his third eye was not fully open because he still had too much fear!!

 

So Jim says the real key to going into the Emptiness is the kidney jing energy has to be built up to get beyond the fear....

 

how to build it?

[voidisyinyang]

how to build it?

 

mind celibacy, body celibacy, 6 hours of meditation a day, staying away from people who attack meditation.

[joeblast]

Precisely! A higher vibration (SHEN) has less resistance when moving through denser objects, in the same way that a radio wave can deliver a message and effortlessly move through a brick wall! So if you start with SHEN you can complete the alchemical process faster as the transmutation is quicker.

 

But if we take JING as a start, it takes a lot more physical effort to contain and transmute the dense material to a finer material!

yup, red phoenix accelerated everything I was doing - but things like that are also like nitrous on a car, hit it wrong and you're sideways.

 

but, consider just in getting the impetus to begin practices, the shen moves, utilizes the qi to cultivate and restore the jing, it all transmutes simultaneously.

 

things only really happen significantly once the alchemical process begins in earnest though, otherwise none of the 3 ever get very highly coherent or "full," as it were. so long as the generative force is lacking in some sense, the body is already programmed to make sure its taken care of - the protocol changes when it is taken care of, then the preponderance of efforts is more streamlined into a direction. just like once the breath mechanics are streamlined enough that the flow drops below the threshold of turbulence for extended periods of time, boom, shift change and things accelerate in directions not possible with rough, uneven breath. (some people mistake the meaning of turbulence...any turbulence at all and air can be felt, that is neural stimulation which flows right into the 5/12 thieves, that is why its important to do this for the duration of the session once settled, and once the habit energy is well ingrained, the settling happens more quickly in beginning the session, the sessions last longer and more of it fuels the awareness energy-potential, time more readily disappears, and more of this habit-energy contains more inertia that flows forth into daily life, leading on more easily accessed ongoing meditative states even while not "in meditation.")

[Albert Tjhie]

Very interesting topic.

Taoism has been passing very long period.

If it counts from Lao Tse the history is about 2.500 years.

If it counts from Huang Ti the history is about 5.000 years.

In this long period Taoism grew and spread into many sects and clans.

There are hundred Taoist groups that were researching to develop Taoist cultivation system. Sometime every clan has different system and exercises base on their personal research. Taoist accepts the differences as natural things. They are not judge that other different systems are wrong. Even sometime they learn each other to compare and upgrade the system.

 

Base on above spirit, I will share cultivation system that is used in Xiao Yao Pai (XYP)

Our main practice is called Tao Yin Shu (TYS). Most of people know TYS as ancient form of Tai Chi and Qi Gong. But in XYP we inherited different type of TYS although the outer form is look similar.

Refer to the meaning of the word ‘Tao Yin’ which can be translated as to lead or to guide, so in XYP we need the guider to practice TYS. And the guider is Taoist immortal (Shen Xian) who already success in cultivating ‘Shen’.

 

To make us possible connect with Taoist immortal and receive some guidance, there are two possible ways as:

1. We meditate until reach very high dimension.

2. We been initiated by Taoist who is a master in Tao Yin Shu.

 

After we have an ability to connect with Taoist immortal (Shen Xian) then our Shen will be activated by Shen Xian directly. Shen Xian connects to our Shen and then develops our Qi and Jing. This exercise is called Shen Gong. It is like energy transformation system from Shen into Qi and Jing. So this process can be said as Shen Qi Jing.

After the system already developed then we can cultivate Jing Qi Shen easier just by follow the way that already developed.

The process is automatically and naturally under guidance of Taoist immortal.

 

In XYP the concept of Jing Qi Shen is an energy transformation and not physical cultivation. We translated Jing as life essence or vitality and it is a kind of energy. People with healthy body means they have strong Jing.

Jing also can be said as regeneration energy because this energy is the main ‘material’ for our physical regeneration cells. Not just semen but also blood, saliva, muscle, bone and others physical material. We cultivate Jing become Qi before it transforms into physical material.

 

Because Jing is not semen, so women also able to cultivates Jing Qi Shen. And men don’t need to celibate or keep the semen. The key is how to find the way absorbing and cultivating Jing become Qi and then become Shen.

As long as our nutrition is enough we have enough Jing to regenerate our all physical cells. Producing semen is just needs little part of Jing. So we don't have to keep our semen all the time.

The most important is how to supply the energy and cultivate it and not just keep the energy.

 

My explanation above refers to the system that is used in XYP.

Zhang Tao Ling is very famous Taoist and he also not celibate.

Maybe he also finds the way to absorb Jing before it become semen.

I don’t mean to say that the method that base on semen retention is wrong.

It is not wrong just different system.

 

Zerostao has been practicing TYS for a year. I think he can share his experience when his ‘Shen’ activated and the effect of his Qi and Jing.

 

On 24 August, Effi plans to learn TYS. I hope he can share his experience in this forum.

 

 

Warmest,

Albert

Edited August 8, 2013 by Albert Tjhie

[effilang]

Thanks Albert : )

 

As most of you know I am a practitioner who is an avid disciple of the conventional JING QI SHEN route of transformation, so I am really looking forward to experiencing the method by which the essence is extracted from the JING without having to cook it.

 

To illustrate my thinking, please consider the following:

 

JING is not semen, but the essence of semen contributes to the complex of JING energies.

The JING complex includes other energies originating from places like the Kidneys, Testicles, Prostate, Bladder, Liver etc.

 

You may have strong sexual JING, but you may have a failing Liver or a failing Kidney and thus be in bad health.

 

Having JING is the condition of being in general health and maintaining a system whose organs are in balance and functioning optimally.

 

Everything is vibration. The way we and things within and without us vibrate defines how are classified and how we classify.

 

When we gather JING in the LDT it is akin to dropping grains of rice and drops of water, one at a time, into an empty pot.

 

When there is enough rice and water to cook in the pot, we place the mind mind/heart under the pot. The water is a necessary ingredient, because without the water we cannot extract the essence from the coarse JING.

 

The fire of the mind/heart is a necessary ingredient because without the fire we cannot begin to heat the JING to a boil.

 

If we perform strenuous physical activity that tolls the bodys' organs and energy reserves, then we deplete JING. By doing this we continuously scoop out some of the rice water and never get what we need to meet the requirements of this recipe.

 

This is body celibacy. It does not just mean celibacy of the sexual activity, but celibacy of physical activity in order to maintain optimal energetic capacity in all areas, not just testosterone.

 

If anyone has ever been on a long term water fast, you'll be familiar with the profound effects of conserving ones energy.

 

This type of body celibacy conserves and compounds JING, but it does not necessarily refine it into QI, because energy continues to leak out of the system from other outlets preventing the JING from accumulating to max capacity.

 

There is a saying. When the body is still it produces JING, when the breath is still it produces QI and when the mind is still it produces SHEN.

 

One can accumulate JING, but still deplete QI. One can accumulate QI, but still deplete SHEN.

And we must not forget that san bao interact with each other JING QI SHEN and SHEN QI JING.

One nourishes the other, but one can also deplete the other since they are in a constant process of transmutation.

 

One can sit still and be celibate of the body and thus accumulate JING, but can deplete QI through incorrect breathing or excessive talking. If the QI is depleted the JING and SHEN will support it and thus the JING and SHEN will also be lost.

 

Please bear in mind that when I use the word LOST, I do not mean that capacity drops from 100 to 0, but rather a percentage is transmuted up or down the vibrational ladder in order to support the other energy and achieve balance in the body again.

 

This means, you can still lose energy regularly, but progress, albeit slower.

 

If JING becomes too weak, it cannot support the QI and the SHEN will disperse causing death.

 

One can also accumulate QI faster through Qigong practices, without even being celibate, one can do so. You can have sex and practice Qigong, and you will have more QI, but the QI will also transmute downwards to support the JING and thus you will deplete the accumulated QI in order to bring the system to balance.

 

One can absorb high vibrational energies to nourish the SHEN, yet deplete the QI and the JING with other activities and thus force the SHEN to transmute down to support them.

 

In other words, what I'm trying to say is that a disciple with the right method, can begin and support the alchemical process from either JING or QI or SHEN. It's a delicate balancing act.

 

The most effective practice will be that which conserves energy on all three of the planes simultaneously for maximum efficacy.

 

You don't necessarily have to start from JING or from SHEN or from QI specifically.

Each will support the other and vice-versa.

 

Here is a little diagram on the interrelationship of the San Bao:

 

 

So, the pot is filled with rice and water, what now?

 

This RIGHT HERE, is the point at which a lot of conflict arises with different schools.

 

If you keep filling the pot with rice, one grain at a time and with water one drop at a time, soon you will just get raw rice and water spilling up and out the pot and unto the stove and you'll make a mess.

 

Ha, does that remind you of anything? Maybe? What's normally messy, watery and white?

That's right, man juice! Millions of future babies!

 

Keep accumulating JING and sooner or later the energy complex will reach the maximum capacity of the pot and when you go to sleep one night, you will wake up with wet pants in the morning : )

 

The crude, unrefined physical form of the rice and the water can only be contained so much until it starts looking for the point of least resistance to exit from. Normally that is the penis and the anus.

 

This reminds me of a time when I was having a debate with a friend of mine whose religious practice claimed that you must not have sex for around 90 days, after which when you go to sleep, God (of all things) will come to you at night and grant you the bliss of orgasm while you sleep. A gift from God he said. SMH!

 

All I could think to myself as a Taoist was... man.. what a waste haha.

 

I tried to make him understand that this is a crucial phase during which he needs to practice the proper meditation methods to help refine the accumulated JING energy in order to transmute it to QI, but he screamed BLASPHEMY. GOD he said, the wet dream is GODS gift! How dare I even entertain the idea of interrupting the divine process of God coming to your bed at night and giving you a helping hand? God after all is a loving God is he not? lol : )

 

Fair enough. I let it be as there was too much resistance.

 

THIS PHASE, really is crucial, because this is where the celibacy of the body reaches its peak. The JING reaches capacity.

 

The pot is full of raw rice and water. But now we must intensify another aspect of the practice in order to bring this alchemical process to it's next step of progression.

 

What is that?

 

MIND celibacy. (You like that one do you Drew )

Mind celibacy is crucial.

 

The heart mind is the element FIRE. The spirit resides in the heart and manifests through the eyes.

 

This is why when the eyes attach to beautiful things, the heart is stirred, the spirit attaches to the desire of the visual formation and leaks out of the eyes. This is one way to deplete SHEN energy.

 

Ok, Ok. But what does this have to do with the JING in the Lower Dan Tien that is about spill over because of the tiny pot we have down there?

 

Well... This is what happens.

The Qi follows the Mind and the heart mind is FIRE.

 

At this time we have one imperative goal. Stop the rice and water in the pot from overflowing and making a mess.

 

How? BY COOKING THE RICE and changing its property!

 

Ok. So we have rice and water in a pot. What do we do now?

Well, what do you normally do to make a deliciously yummy bowl of rice? - You turn the stove on and apply FIRE.

 

Have a look at this image:

 

 

Can you see the JING in the pot? It's just staying there, like our rice and water, just filling up, soon to spill over.

 

Now, look at the heart. Can you see the fire? THAT's what we need to get our RICE and Water cooked!

 

But, how do we get that fire down under the pot, it seems like quite a distance?

Remember what I said before? - The FIRE of the spirit resides in the Heart, but manifests through the two eyes!!!

 

Where the eyes go the fire of the heart follows and passions arise. We see something sexy and our heart beats, we see something beautiful and it skips a beat. When the eyes attach, the heart moves and the passions stir, giving birth to desire and emotions. The KEY are the EYES. That is how we get the FIRE to sit below the pot so we can get cooking!

 

Ok, so what do we do that? Simple! Relax the eyes, look down gently with both your intention and your eyes, right under the pot, and the gaze will lead the FIRE from the heart under the pot.

 

VOILA! You now have LI under KAN.

 

Whats so magical bout this?

 

It's important because, once the FIRE starts to heat the pot the WATER will begin to boil, once it boils the rice transformed and it's essence is extracted and carried up into the steam.

 

As long as the FIRE of the heart/mind is kept under the Lower Dan Tien, the WATER will boil and the JING will not SPILL.

 

THIS, is the crucial effect of MIND CELIBACY.

 

Without restraining the mind, you cannot guide the FIRE of the heart, as Spirit will constantly leak out of the eyes to chase worldly images.

 

Without Mind Celibacy, the JING will overflow and sooner or later you will make a mess.

The FIRE is needed to cook the WATER and make it EVAPORATE to prevent the ingredients from spilling out of the pot. Kan needs Li to produce Qi.

 

It is as simple as that.

 

No Fire = Spilled JING and a waste of time.

Fire = Transmuted JING into QI

 

The process by which the fire heats the water and the water boils and transforms into STEAM or Yang QI is the process of TRANSMUTATION.

 

JING transmutates to QI and QI transmutates to SHEN and vice versa.

 

So what happens to the Steam we have just created?

Well. It too will seek to find an outlet for release.

 

If you do apply the mind incorrectly at this stage, the hot steam can shoot through the wrong meridians in the leg, through the Hui Yin or out of the Penis or out of the Anus or up the Central Channel or Up the Ren Mai or Up the Du Mai.

 

So what must you do?

This is debatable. You can often not do anything and the Steam will find the correct path on it's own or you can gently guide it along the right path.

 

How do we know when the water is boiled and ready to be moved?

Well, you will experience heat in the Lower Dan Tien, you will then afterwards also experience Vibration and you will then experience the sensation of movement in the LDT.

 

Once you feel that property of movement in the LDT after the vibration occurs this means the cooked JING has began to steam up and needs to rise.

 

At this point, you must gently use the mind to direct it down to the Hui Yin followed by the tip of the Tail bone where it can pass through the first gate and proceed up the Fire path of the Microcosmic orbit along and up the DU Meridian of the spinal chord.

 

This is the first phase of the JING QI SHEN transformation process.

 

What is really important here is to realize that the essence of the JING can be extracted by other methods OTHER than cooking it with FIRE in the Lower Dan Tien.

 

It is extraction we are looking for regardless of the process.

 

I would like to submit the theory that it may be possible to extract the essence from the JING by other methods, different than what we are used to.

 

If we do not eat or drink or breathe our body and organs will become weak and our JING will become weakened and we will die.

 

In other words we need YIN nourishment to support our organs in order to produce, accumulate and transmute JING along the conventional JING > QI > SHEN route. And once we have enough JING we need to use mind celibacy to transmute that JING to QI.

 

Now.. Look at the picture again. Can you see how the arrow goes up the back, but down the front as well? Remember how I said you can start the process from any of the three treasures?

 

Some systems rather than using Yin nourishment, absorb higher vibrational Yang nourishment from the moon, sun, stars, planets or other sources of energy which vibrate faster than JING and even QI.

 

This type of energy nourishes and builds the SHEN, just like eating food, drinking water or breathing nourishes the JING, but there is no COOKING process required here as the energy being accumulated is already of a high vibration and does not require to move up any higher at this point.

 

We don't have to work to build up the JING we simply let the SHEN energy naturally transmute down into QI and then into JING in the REVERSE order of transmutation.

 

Building JING to transmute it into QI and SHEN is like picking up a rock and using physical force to throw it up into the sky. It requires more Gong.

 

Building JING out of QI derived from SHEN, is like dropping the rock from a roof top, no force is required, you needn't throw it down. You simply let go and gravity will do the rest of the work.

 

Jumping requires force, Falling requires that you let go.

 

Everything that comes from the heavens and above can reach the earth without any effort. While everything on earth takes effort to reach above and into the heavens. (Heavens from a cosmological stand point not religious or spiritual)

 

I have studied and practised the conventional method of transmutation from JING to QI to SHEN for a long time. In fact, to me it is blasphemous for someone to claim anything otherwise. Yet, how can I call myself a Taoist if I don't investigate these claims?

 

I've received several different viewpoints that have challenged my beliefs and I'm eager to investigate them and looking forward to sharing my finds here after I put the Xiao Yao Pai system to practice.

 

 

[Uroboros]

Effilang- This article you wrote is excellent!

 

Theoretically you should be able to use the reverse process, Shen to Qi to Jing.

 

I think its great that you are opening your mind to see what else is out there.

 

We have to always bring it back to the foundation. For us the foundation is Taoist Cosmogenesis.

 

Wuji- Taiji- Yin/Yang- 5 Phases, etc.

 

One of the foundations of the theory is that, like breathing, there is a flow.

 

The manifestations go back to Wuji and Wuji moves into manifestation.

 

So based on that, you must be able to go , Shen - Qi- Jing.

 

The question is how. I dont know!

 

Maybe you will figure it out. Maybe not.

 

At the very least, I feel like I have grown from expanding my mind, even if I dont "reach" the "goal".

 

Anywho, the eyes are important, I agree.

 

I look forward to seeing what comes of your investigations. If i find something that may help, I will add it.

 

OH, ok. Thought.

 

What is Shen?

 

If we are going to start with Shen, we need to have an idea what it is...Is it mind? Spirit? One thing or many?

 

If its many, do they need to become harmonized, like a laser or can it stay the way it is?

 

Questions, questions..

 

Good luck!

 

Peace.

[zerostao]

"So yeah these are all numerous factors" sincerity is even a factor,

approaching with an open mind is a factor. finding a good teacher is a factor. being consistent is a factor

 

"But there are some problems with this.... you lose completely your roots, your shen disperses insanely and you cannot ground it easily"

from my pov , i have never been more grounded

 

"6 hours of meditation a day" wow pfl, you meditate 6 hours a day?

i practice my Tao Yin Shu early morning and before i end my day, maybe 45 minutes to an hour each time.

and you still have time to make more posts than me on this board! i am impressed.

 

"but things like that are also like nitrous on a car, hit it wrong and you're sideways"

i have experienced a very smooth ride

[voidisyinyang]

"So yeah these are all numerous factors" sincerity is even a factor,

approaching with an open mind is a factor. finding a good teacher is a factor. being consistent is a factor

 

"But there are some problems with this.... you lose completely your roots, your shen disperses insanely and you cannot ground it easily"

from my pov , i have never been more grounded

 

"6 hours of meditation a day" wow pfl, you meditate 6 hours a day?

i practice my Tao Yin Shu early morning and before i end my day, maybe 45 minutes to an hour each time.

and you still have time to make more posts than me on this board! i am impressed.

 

"but things like that are also like nitrous on a car, hit it wrong and you're sideways"

i have experienced a very smooth ride

 

no - if I practiced seriously I would not even use the internet. haha.

 

When I practiced seriously I just used email sometimes - but no forums... that was in 2000.

 

I don't meditate seriously now since I have too many - "on call" obligations.... ummm and my family thinks meditating is being lazy. haha.

 

But seriously - it will have to happen eventually. Jim nance said I can get back into it fast..... but.... also I have a "brain blockage" that I have to work through - and I did achieve a deepness of experience beyond 95% of people on Earth. haha.

 

So yeah six hours a day - well Jim was doing 12 hours nonstop full lotus training a day sometimes.

[voidisyinyang]

Effliang - nice post

 

The only thing I would clarify is that shen is not passive - "Just letting go" - actually that is the Emptiness.

 

So Emptiness is a fourth factor.

 

Shen is actually a very concentrated mind as resonance - one thought - to create a laser energy.

 

So you can create that laser energy by "letting go" but that is a passive process that takes much longer - it is called "cessation and contemplation" or "vispassana" or -- advaita vedanta.

 

It is the slowest method as Bodri and Nan point out - but as Ramana Maharshi points out it is also the GOAL of the practice - so the process as the goal.

 

ummm....

 

So yeah the Emptiness as "letting go" creates shen but you can also create shen from your mind by concentrating the mind like a - magnifying glass - that then focuses the light to ionize or burn the jing energy in the lower tan tien.

 

So a laser works by resonance of the same frequency - the same thought over and over - creates this resonance of the same frequency - and therefore a laser - coherent light energy.

 

Coherent light is a laser -- the intensity of energy is the frequency.

 

So different colors is different frequency - Chunyi Lin talks about this - violent purple is stronger intensity than red light....

 

but the gold light is highest and that is the unification of the jing and shen and qi - ....

[Albert Tjhie]

Very good explanation Effi.

 

Your illustration of ‘rock’ is very good parable.

We can start from earth energy and developing the system to refine it to reach heaven..

We can start from heaven energy and developing the system to connect into earth.

 

The other difference is the exercises system.

Just like water purification. We can use chemical, filter or distillation.

Every system use different rule.

[joeblast]

Snippitty snip

Excellent post, Effi

 

These two images relate very well to the 3dt microcosmic practice, the stages described have exactly been outflows of my experience with it. (unfortunately I cant display images from direct attachments as your images are.)

 

The matters of refining, guiding, concentrate/guide, train to replenish are very specific happenings by the process-connections of the practice.

 

 

http://thetaobums.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=2813

 

and

 

shen, double yang at upper, is the yintang expression with middle/lower yin inhaling but 3 yang focused expression exhaling...

qi, relating to the solar plexus, 3 yin inhale allowing the relative waning of the cycle to manifest before the nourishing assist...

jing, the lower dantien expression of connecting the upper dantien with the lower dantien and is the same concept as in taoist yoga of "driving vitality into the lower cauldron", 3 yin inhale and exhaling just force of yi connecting the emptiness, driving the result into conditioning of the lower...

 

http://thetaobums.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=2814

 

looping with great inertia

 

 

 

 

More good stuff, Drew, good clarifications...quoted for emphasis

 

The only thing I would clarify is that shen is not passive - "Just letting go" - actually that is the Emptiness.

 

So Emptiness is a fourth factor.

 

Shen is actually a very concentrated mind as resonance - one thought - to create a laser energy.

 

So you can create that laser energy by "letting go" but that is a passive process that takes much longer - it is called "cessation and contemplation" or "vispassana" or -- advaita vedanta.

 

It is the slowest method as Bodri and Nan point out - but as Ramana Maharshi points out it is also the GOAL of the practice - so the process as the goal.

messed up all my code trying to get 'em to display

Edited August 9, 2013 by joeblast

[voidisyinyang]

If you do the shen training it will automatically sublimate your jing energy.

 

So a minimum of three months no ejaculation is necessary just to create shen energy.

 

If you can sit in full lotus 2 hrs nonstop with no pain -- body filled with electromagnetic energy - then you are starting to go into the real Emptiness - nirvikalpa samadhi - immortal breathing.

 

So then you are opening up the third eye.

 

So mind celibacy then creates the build up of the jing energy -- it's all connected.

 

If someone is trying to just have a mechanical physical approach they're never going to create real chi energy which then creates real shen energy.

 

It takes a lot of jing to create qi and a lot of qi to create shen.

 

So.... the Emptiness - it's on different levels but the "real" Emptiness is only after the body is filled with qi energy and that only comes after mind Emptiness first.

 

So you practice mind emptiness as the basis for real celibacy - again no ejaculation for at least 3 months - but also building up the energy - so ....

 

trying to just do a mechanical bottom up approach will never actually create real qi energy.

 

This is why thetaobums is constantly bombarded with people who can not get over the first hurdle of physical celibacy.

 

It holds everyone else back when people are practicing in a false manner -- thinking they can get results without practicing mind celibacy.

 

Full lotus purifies the energy automatically --

 

but it still requires mind emptiness to burn off the bad karma.

 

So for those who want to make progress in their training the first step would be to avoid the bad karma on thetaobums of all the fake practitioners who can not even get past the first hurdle of physical celibacy since they can not logically accept the truth of mind emptiness as the source of reality.