Vedanta Basics

[dwai]

This is meant to be a guideline/summary of what Vedanta is and a little bit of it's history, key concepts therein as well as common terminology with associated meanings.

 

As has been discussed often, there are many words in Vedanta's original language -- Sanskrit, that are untranslatable into English (or other western languages). A general meaning of these words/concepts can be made, but they would still fail to grasp the meaning/import of the word (as spoken in Sanskrit or derivatives thereof, such as Hindi, Bangla, etc).

 

Let us try to keep our personal predilections/beliefs from coloring this thread, and let us collectively work on building a repository of information that can be used to understand/expound on the Upanishads (the core and essence of Vedanta) by any individual seeking to advance their understanding.

 

 

The source of Vedanta

 

The Hindu tradition considers the Vedas to be the source, and Vedanta is part of the Vedas. It is the fourth and final component of the Vedas. The Vedas are composed of the following parts:

 

1. The Samhitas
2. The Brahmanas
3. The Aranyakas
4. The Upanishads

All three systems of Vedanta are based on the Upanishads and hence the name Vedanta (or the last part of the Vedas).

 

Etymology: Veda + anta (Veda - root Vid, to know - thereby Veda means knowledge; anta - End/conclusion) - thereby the Conclusion of Veda is Vedanta.

 

The three systems of Vedanta

 

These are:

 

1. Advaita Vedanta or Non-Dualistic Vedanta (Shankaracharya being the primary teacher of this system)
2. Dvaita Vedanta or Dualistic Vedanta (Madhavacharya being the primary teacher)
3. Vishisthadvaita Vedanta or Qualified Non-dualistic Vedanta (Ramanujacharya being the primary teacher)

 

Key Concepts in Vedanta

 

Brahman

 

Brahman is the ultimate reality, in Vedanta/Upanishads. It has been likened to the smaller than the smallest particle we can see but larger than the largest fathomable entity (capable of being conjured by the human mind). It is without properties (and all references to it are allegorical/metaphorical) and therefore is without gender, without shape, without form. Brahman is also likened to be the source, participant and activity (all there is).

 

Atman

 

Atman is the "True Self", that is the "True identity", when stripped of all extraneous identities (in general every which way we do identify ourselves).

 

Ishwara

 

This is the "God" (as we would understand it from the theistic point of view). In that, a God that creates, nurtures, destroys and so on.

 

Jiva

 

Jiva translated from sanskrit means "Living being". So Jiva is the being that lives (and the identities that we use for ourselves, are in context of, with reference to this).

 

The Two-level theory of Reality

 

In Vedanta, there are two levels of Reality (or Truth), one being called the Vyavaharika Satya and other other being the Paramarthika Satya.

 

Satya comes from the sanskrit word "Sat" or "Substantial/Existence/Reality/Truth".

 

Vyavahar in sanskirt stands for "Use" or "Usage". So Vyavaharika is that which is used - so our everyday lives, world and interactions fall in this category.

 

Paramartha is sanskrit is a compound consisting of Parama (Ultimate) and Artha (Meaning/Value). So Paramarthika is that which is of Ultimate Meaning/Value.

 

All of Vedanta is about putting into context the dynamics between Brahman, Atman, Ishwara and Jiva, using the two-level theory of Reality (I'm being reductionistic here, but its a good starting point).

 

We can revise these statements/semantics after (if we do have) discussions in this regard here.

 

The 10 Principal Upanishads

 

The following are the 10 principal Upanishads, that form the core of Vedanta.

 

I will refer to the associated "Mukhya Upanishads" (or Main Upanishads) page i wikipedia for this:

 

 

 

1. Īṣa, (ŚYV) "The Inner Ruler"
2. Kena (SV) "Who moves the world?"
3. Kaṭha (KYV) "Death as Teacher"
4. Praṣna, (AV) "The Breath of Life"
5. Muṇḍaka (AV) "Two modes of Knowing"
6. Māṇḍūkya (AV) "Consciousness and its phases"
7. Taittirīya (KYV) "From Food to Joy"
8. Aitareya, (ṚV) "The Microcosm of Man"
9. Chāndogya (SV) "Song and Sacrifice"
10. Bṛhadāraṇyaka (ŚYV)

 

These are the dasopanishads (or 10 upanishads) that form the core of Vedanta. The parenthesized acronyms are the Vedas they are associated with.

 

SYV - Shukla Yajur Veda (White Yajur Veda)

SV - Sama Veda

KYV - Krishna Yajur Veda (Black Yajur Veda)

AV - Atharva Veda

RV - Rg Veda

 

 

The Relation between Vedanta and other systems originating out of India

 

The other systems that originated out of India (Darsanas) can be categorized as Astika (Theistic) or Nastika (Atheistic):

 

Astika Systems

 

The following six systems are Astika systems

 

Purva Mimamsa (Ritualists)

Sankhya

Yoga

Vaisheshika (Atomists)

Nyaya (Logicians)

Uttara Mimamsa (Vedanta)

 

Nastika Systems

 

The nastika systems are:

 

Jaina (Jainism)

Bauddha (Buddism)

Charvaka (Materialists)

 

Where do the Tantras fit?

 

Nama Rupa

 

What is this concept? Nama = Name/label, Rupa = form/shape.

So Nama Rupa is a key concept in the understanding of Vedanta. It lends towards comprehension of the two levels of reality/truth concept. A relatively long time ago, there were discussions on phenomena, noumena, etc here on TTB.

 

Nama Rupa needs to be understood to be able to ascertain (first intellectually, then experientially) what it is that is Paramartha, beyond mundane reality.

 

Nama Rupa is the basis of what is called a "Categorical framework" in philosophy. Nama (as in Label) and Rupa (as in form) give substance to what we view, how we view it and what interpretations we give to it.

 

 

<more to come>

Edited November 12, 2013 by dwai

[idiot_stimpy]

I've always wanted to know what the difference is between advaita vedanta and vedanta?

[Songtsan]

I've always wanted to know what the difference is between advaita vedanta and vedanta?

 

Advaita (pronounced sort of like "Ad white-ah") is nondualist...the pure nondualist philosophy of Shankaracharya. They see the world as a sea of illusion - it is all one energy. Ego selves are like waves on the ocean of samsara...they fall back into oneness.

 

Vedanta is from the Upanishads, and is concerned with self-realization according to the Vedas Advaita Vedanta is a sub-school of Vedanta...

 

all the schools have the same core.

 

Advaita Vedanta simply focuses more on achieving oneness and perceiving it from the get-go (seeing no difference between Brahman and oneself), whereas the main school approaches it down the line. They all end up in the same place. One just aims directly for the realization that all is Brahman, the other approaches Brahman from the point of view of the separate soul merging at the end.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Songtsan

[dwai]

I have hidden additional posts that were not only irrelevant to the topic at hand, but were derailing the discussion of Vedanta Basics. My intention with this topic was to create a repository that chalks out the basics of Vedanta, the terminology, description/brief commentary on the various "technical" terms and open the OP for discussion/edition based on mutual understanding.

 

Treat this topic like a technical discussion of Vedanta and it's various systems, a Vedanta 101 if I may use that term. I consider subjects like it's relation to Buddhism etc are irrelevant to understanding Vedanta as it stands on its own. There will be occasions when we should definitely use Vedanta to look at/analyze alternate systems, but that is from a perspective of using the Vedantic hermeneutics as a framework, to attain better understanding of the Vedantic perspective. The Buddhist or Taoist sub-forums are perfect vehicles to do the same vis-a-vis Vedanta using those frameworks as lenses.

 

We can discuss the virtues (or lack thereof) of this approach, and please do start another thread where this can be discussed. But I request that we stick to the intent of the OP on this specific thread.

 

Participants are encouraged to start alternate threads that they wish to discuss (I do notice Alwayson started something like that on the Buddhist sub-forum).

Edited August 3, 2013 by dwai

[RongzomFan]

I thought the topic also included, and I quote, "a little bit of it's history"

[RongzomFan]

I consider subjects like it's relation to Buddhism etc are irrelevant to understanding Vedanta as it stands on its own.

 

Obviously scholars don't agree with you, since the title of the book you censored is A History of Early Vedanta Philosophy

 

Its a book specifically about Vedanta, and Buddhism is crucial.

Edited August 4, 2013 by alwayson

[forestofemptiness]

Here is a good video series introducing Vedanta.

 

Introduction to Vedanta

[RongzomFan]

Here is a good video series introducing Vedanta.

 

Introduction to Vedanta

 

There are a million books on Vedanta.

[gatito]

And the two best ones are................: -

 

Atma Darshan and Atma Nirvriti (one volume) by Krishna Menon

 

and

 

The Nature of Man According to the Vedanta by John Levy

 

[RongzomFan]

http://www.amazon.com/The-Essential-Vedanta-Treasures-Religions/dp/0941532526

[RongzomFan]

And the two best ones are................: - Atma Darshan and Atma Nirvriti (one volume) by Krishna Menon and The Nature of Man According to the Vedanta by John Levy

 

I meant there are a million academic books on Vedanta

[gatito]

I meant there are a million academic books on Vedanta

 

As opposed to practical ones - like the two I've suggested?

[RongzomFan]

As opposed to practical ones - like the two I've suggested?

 

yes. as opposed to your books.

Edited September 1, 2013 by alwayson

[gatito]

yes. as opposed to your books.

 

They're not my books - they're books by Krishna Menon and his disciple John Levy.

[RongzomFan]

They're not my books - they're books by Krishna Menon and his disciple John Levy.

 

I understand that. I meant non-academic books

[gatito]

 

I understand that. I meant non-academic books

 

You seem a bit hung-up on books being "academic" (in your personal judgement)

 

One definition of "academic" is : -

 

Scholarly to the point of being unaware of the outside world. See Synonyms at pedantic. (My Bolding)

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/academic

 

(www.thefreedictionary.com/academic)

 

Some of us are more interested in the practicalities of exploring non-duality from first-hand experience (as opposed to reading second-hand accounts and debating their scholarly merits).

[RongzomFan]

Some of us are more interested in the practicalities of exploring non-duality from first-hand experience (as opposed to reading second-hand accounts and debating their scholarly merits)

 

 

These neoAdvaita authors really rake in the money by writing these books.

 

 

Whats so hard?

 

conceptualizing mind

nowness

Edited September 2, 2013 by alwayson

[gatito]

These neoAdvaita authors really rake in the money by writing these books.

 

 

Whats so hard?

 

conceptualizing mind

newness

 

Neither Krishna Menon nor John Levy were neo-advaitins.

 

Neither Krishna Menon nor John Levy "raked in the money" by writing books - John Levy was extremely independently wealthy and Krishna Menon earned his living as a senior police officer.

 

Finally, I never said anything was hard.

[dwai]

Bump

 

I'm trying to figure out how to maintain focus on the OP (which is really an article that I'm writing to cover my understanding of Vedanta basics). Thoughts?

Edited December 31, 2013 by dwai

[yabyum24]

I guess you could either expand upon a category you listed in the OP or perhaps mention practitioners (dead or alive), their biographies, teachings etc.

[3bob]

get permission to remove all other posts in this particular and informational type thread since it (as an exception to common rule) imo should not be used as a place to debate, there are many existing threads where people are free to "debate" various points and if those are not enough they can start new threads for same. (including references back to this one)

[gatito]

Bump

 

I'm trying to figure out how to maintain focus on the OP (which is really an article that I'm writing to cover my understanding of Vedanta basics). Thoughts?

 

I think that the only way to manage any kind of serious discussion here is to put it in a PPF

 

(You could link to it in the first post)

Edited January 3, 2014 by gatito

[RongzomFan]

And the two best ones are................: - Atma Darshan and Atma Nirvriti (one volume) by Krishna Menon and The Nature of Man According to the Vedanta by John Levy

 

 

As opposed to practical ones - like the two I've suggested?

 

 

They're not my books - they're books by Krishna Menon and his disciple John Levy.

 

Explain how John Levy is superior to traditional Vedanta or the Upanishads.

[RongzomFan]

Some of us are more interested in the practicalities of exploring non-duality from first-hand experience (as opposed to reading second-hand accounts and debating their scholarly merits).

 

And some of us are interested in traditional Vedanta, not fucking John Levy.

[RongzomFan]

John Levy was extremely independently wealthy

 

That completely discredits him.