Wisdom from Scientists

[idiot_stimpy]

A few acquaintances believe scientists have great wisdom with all their knowledge.

 

For me, wisdom seems to go a lot deeper, and when you hear or see it, it touches you on a much deeper level.

 

What is wisdom for you?

[ShenLung]

Generally, wisdom is an instinctive discernment; the ability to judge whether an idea or course of action is likely to yield beneficial results. It is not typically a product of scientific reasoning. A person might be capable of mustering their intellect and make rationalisations in order to approximate wisdom, but in order to do so with accurracy, their depth of knowledge must be quite vast. Many members of the scientific community do not lack in intellect, and may be fairly knowledgable in their particular fields of interest, but the number of brilliant scientists with intimate knowledge of a multiplicity of fields is relatively small.

 

There are simply too many unknown variables involved in complex processes to rely solely upon local conciousness to make wise decisions. I would prefer that, should I be depending upon answers from an outside source, I should recieve my general information from someone with experience in using their instinctive wisdom, and then flesh out the specifics with the knowledge of science.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Wisdom is deep knowing, on a level beyond intellectual conceptualisation, regarding both the nature of things, and what you should do.

 

We all have astounding wisdom, the amount of it we access however... well, just look at the world.

[Stosh]

Science is a methodology , it doesnt try to touch you at all.

But Its true that there is data - presumably objective

and then there are conclusions -which are presumably subjective

Wisdom and Science are both geared for helping to answer the ultimate question

'What do I do now?'

[Vmarco]

A few acquaintances believe scientists have great wisdom with all their knowledge.

 

For me, wisdom seems to go a lot deeper, and when you hear or see it, it touches you on a much deeper level.

 

What is wisdom for you?

 

Wisdom literally means knowledge accumulated through philosophic or scientific learning. In other words, wisdom points to the highest and most lofty ideas of the ego consciousness of science, whose sole purpose is to sustain itself. Wisdom is to make the best use of knowledge,...yet to realize enlightenment means to let go of all knowledge. Knowledge is acquired through thinking/the Head-mind,...the truth arises only from gnowledge/the Heart-Mind.

 

What is widom for me? Perhaps the greatest barrier to prajnaparamita.

 

The pedestal of wisdom is a good example of how ego consciousness sustains the delusion of ignorance, and discourages any attempt to See Things How They Really Are.

[Vmarco]

Wisdom (knowledge) does not arise from samadhi,...Prajna (gnowledge) arises from samadhi. Without realizing this, any understanding of The Tao, or Tathagata, remains a concept of thought.

[Stosh]

Thanks for reminding all that Tao is understandable as a concept of thought.

As opposed to gnowledge which reads as essentially epiphany with something about vibrations

and reads to be subjective experience.

( as described by the one google link I found for the 'word'.)

[Vmarco]

Thanks for reminding all that Tao is understandable as a concept of thought.

As opposed to gnowledge which reads as essentially epiphany with something about vibrations

and reads to be subjective experience.

( as described by the one google link I found for the 'word'.)

Google is a pro-knowledge site,...they worship psyche, and belittle thymos,...in fact, google shares very little factual information on thymos, that is, gnowledge.

 

There could be said to be three kinds of people on Earth,...caterpillars (the cerebral-centric google types), caterpillars desiring to wake up, and butterfies.

 

"at the end of the day you're either a caterpillar or a butterfly, and the only way anyone will ever have even the slightest sense of what it means to be a butterfly is to become one. There are no butterfly experts among the caterpillars, despite innumerable claims to the contrary" Jed McKenna

 

Those who use google are caterpillars,...those who get upset at quotes are deeply caterpillar. I often use quotes, not only as a collage to point to something,...the quotes being part of the collage, that is, what an artist is pointing to, rather than some biography of the quoter,...but also because quotes often irritate caterpillars,...and thus can be easily labeled one who clings to the caterpillar mentality, or has expanded beyond such ignorance.

 

Synonyms for Butterfly:

The Tao

Tathagata

That which sees things as they are

Nirvana

Bodhisattva

Prajnaparamita

Dakini

[Stosh]

This caterpillar doesnt know what the upset at quotes things is referring to ,

maybe it refers to 'butterfly only' understanding.

Its not a big deal to this caterpillar if he does or doesnt know

thusly grounded to the good earth -he can accept the situation either way

balanced at the center betwixt metamorphoses.

Neither grasping at his birth nor grasping for the skies

 

Edited April 17, 2013 by Stosh

[manitou]

I think wisdom is developed when we peel our own onion and find out the essence of Self. I think my Higher Self is exactly the same as Your Higher Self; we share It. It is our lower selves that appear different. When we've looked totally into ourselves, we are able to understand the insides of other things. This is self realization.

 

One who has not done this will not understand it. They will be stuck in measurement.

Edited April 17, 2013 by manitou

[Vmarco]

This caterpillar

thusly grounded to the good earth

Yes,...excellent description of a faithful caterpillar,...grounded to the good earth,...the 5 skandha's.

 

“Not all spiritual paths lead to the Harmonious Oneness.

Indeed, most are detours and distractions, nothing more.” Lao Tzu

 

"The trap of duality is tenacious. Bound, rigid and trapped, you cannot experience liberation." Lao Tzu

[Vmarco]

my Higher Self is exactly the same as Your Higher Self; we share It.

Such Thusness is contrary to the accepted definition of wisdom,...although quite compatible with prajnaparamita.

 

Wisdom is not Prajna. Prajna is the Consciousness beyond the Five Aggregates,...whereas wisdom is what the Five Aggregates feel is best about themselves.

 

Most are indoctrinated to believe that wisdom is something special,...to seek out wisdom,...to be wise ourselves. Wisdom is what caterpillars think butterfly's attain,...however, butterfly's do not attain,...they simply let go of all the nonsense that wisdom imposes.

[Stosh]

Yes,...excellent description of a faithful caterpillar,...grounded to the good earth,...the 5 skandha's.

 

“Not all spiritual paths lead to the Harmonious Oneness.

Indeed, most are detours and distractions, nothing more.” Lao Tzu

 

"The trap of duality is tenacious. Bound, rigid and trapped, you cannot experience liberation." Lao Tzu

He also suggests to weaken the ambitions and strengthen the bones

If you can reconcile these two attitudes ,, Then you've got a 'good' thing going

[Vmarco]

He also suggests to weaken the ambitions and strengthen the bones

If you can reconcile these two attitudes ,, Then you've got a 'good' thing going

Sounds like a good metaphor. Is there anything more pernicious than ambition, hope, expectation?

 

People who regularly buy lotto tickets, maintain barriers to waking up.

 

Only caterpillars hope,...butterfly's see things the way they are.

[manitou]

Marco, do you see no value in understanding Self?

[Stosh]

A caterpillar can hope or not hope , he has choice

and can also see how things are.

If he thinks morphing into a butterfly is a step closer to death..

or is satisfied with his state or doesnt have a choice in the matter

he may not rush into making a chrysalis

Lots of stuff in TTC about not taking things to an end

I dont buy lotto tickets often , just occasionally to participate

and I dont get bummed out when my number doesnt come up

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Yeah, well I'm a f***in' iguana, and when I eat enough of you pathetic butterflies I'll become a dragon. I will scorch the forest with hellfire from my maw, then where will you caterpillars AND butterflies be?

[Stosh]

_{I thought iguanas were vegetarian! said the caterpillar to the iguana .}

_{I respect the right of an iguana to try to become a dragon , if its his nature,}

_{and he lives in accord with it}

_{then he can be said to have fullfilled his role of living.}

_{If he is self destructive , and eats allhis food , and destroys that which sustains him}

_{well ,, his end comes that much earlier.}

_{The forests regrow from the scorched land etc etc in the lovely pagent we play in}

[Seeker of Wisdom]

LOL.

 

Iguanas may be herbivores, but I'm partway to having a dragon digestive system. The ash from the burnt forest provides the right environment for my eggs to incubate, and as for being sustained now the forest is gone, I fly to the neighbouring mountain range and have me some delicious goat.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Seeker of the Self

[Vmarco]

Marco, do you see no value in understanding Self?

There is a huge difference between gnothi seauton, to Gnow Thyself,...and know thyself. Let's speculate that there is a Self beyond the delusions of the 5 skandhas,....knowing the skandha self will not expose the Self that is beyond the 5 skandhas.

 

Thus, Eckhart Tolle was quite correct in saying that, "we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself"

[Stosh]

A clearly stated position , but something I havent heard is

just what is someone to make of other persons being limited

by the same conditions that limit us -like gravity.

Doubly said ,

If a person has a child, that kid will be just as affected by whatever the heck gravity is.

So though the 'knowability' of of gravity can be debated ( whether one can be sure of it personally- I doubt it - certainty is a sentiment )

the fact of it is corroborated at least ( uncertain as that may be).

 

Dismissing what cannot be personally proven as false, is a false exercise logically

because it is not a conclusion one cannot refute nor can it be supported conclusively

I cant fairly dispute your experience of gnowing and you cant fairly dispute the existence of gravity.

They are both things outside of our ken but the argument that you cant fly, is strong.

Like I said earlier , my belief is that the end of philosophy is where a person finds themselves

satisfied with the answers they have.

Ive tried to come up with a thread subject to start , but I cant honestly say that there is anything philosophically

speaking , that I dont feel informed about to a point of dissatisfaction. Though I was considering a play on

Family Feud game show , for the interest of comparing other folks views , and whether there was a common

basis to Taoism which would show itself. Some other day perhaps.

Have a nice evening

Edited April 17, 2013 by Stosh

[Birch]

I'd play a gameshow like that. Heck, maybe I'd even watch TV again if there were a gameshow like that (which arguably all TV is actually about these days but since I don't watch I'm buggered if I know).

[DragonsNectar69k]

There is no false or truth. It is whatever you desire, the yi. Moving the mind from point A to point B, this STILL takes dedication and effort, whatever that might be, even if that means hurting one's self or appreciating one's self. One's self is one's own greatest enemy and victor. Surrendering to one's self, is thus knowing, simply that you ARE. You are God and many have came before you as well. One can either ascend to the heights of heaven or wage constant war in the depths of hell. Reality is a merely a play ground, where death is the class room bell.

 

You ever wonder why some monks laugh so much? It is all relative, it seems. It is those who suffer blindly that is truly pitiful.

 

@Vmarco, may one know to gnow?

Edited April 18, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[Ikkyu]

Don't hesitate get laid that's wisdom

Sitting around chanting what crap

[Vmarco]

Yeah, well I'm a f***in' iguana, and when I eat enough of you pathetic butterflies I'll become a dragon. I will scorch the forest with hellfire from my maw, then where will you caterpillars AND butterflies be?

Before which, a Garuda will eat you for dinner.

 

If you seek a beginning in time, look to the end. VMarco