Help me understand

[Stosh]

Interesting ,

but the infant must learn stuff or perish , she-he just doesnt have enough instinct to carry him through.

Language has innate aspects , but it still must be learnt , , its not 'so-called' helplessness, she-he is helpless.

It is just the innate condition of infancy.

That folks learn inexpedient confused messages is true enough , they become part of the inner voice, events become linked with emotions, emotions with thoughts ,and thoughts with events.

What then is a dude to do ?

Reality check , self correct , use language skills to get fresh fodder and, yes ,remember more of what they forgot

-yet keep what they best keep.

[dawei]

It's just a semi-metaphorical story, analogy with microcosm overtones... Your over-analysis it, IMO... or else we just forget that LZ also talks about an infant state and forget the whole idea.

[ChiDragon]

A Taoist will integrate oneself with Nature to preserve life for longevity. This is the goal of a Taoist. Now, it is time for you to begin search to find out how to do it.....

 

I'll give you a hint...!!! First, it is to have a peaceful mind to start with. Find the truth about everything, and disregard any fallacies.

 

To an ordinary person, a peace of mind is to have a mindset which something will not adversely happen to oneself. Thus the mind will be at ease.

 

To a Taoist, to have a peaceful mind is being having the mind to attain the state of serenity at all times. It is different from having a peace of mind as a temporarily wishful thinking. As oppose to the state of serenity, it is permanent.

 

Mentally, by knowing the facts of things will eliminate the uncertainty of the truth in all matters. Thus no wishful thinking to cause any doubts in one's mind which gives a less chance of interrupting the state of serenity. In deed, any interruption in the state of serenity will cause mental problem which is anxiety or worries. Mental problem is the worse thing that could happen to one's health.

 

To prolong one's life can be done mentally and physically with exercise. To begin with is to have a state of serenity in the mind, then improving the heath of the body. Both condition can be done simultaneously by practicing Chi Kung. Chi Kung has been known as the ultimate method of breathing to a Chinese Taoist(please, no racist remark was intended, Taoist's honor).

 

 

Edited to add:

PS.....

This post was intended for the OP and was not addressing to other issues by others in this thread.

 

Edited April 18, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Stosh]

It's just a semi-metaphorical story, analogy with microcosm overtones... Your over-analysis it, IMO... or else we just forget that LZ also talks about an infant state and forget the whole idea.

Maybe that is overanalysis,

but it lets me refresh a message I want heard a few times

Im in 'pre'-agreement with Cd about mental health ,

and although we may have some difference in perspectives

as to whether this subject is the main topic of TTC or not ,,

It could still be a sub-subject , if you know what I mean.

 

I dont think your racist Cd , I just think you have learned some lessons

better off unlearned. ( no blood -no foul)

[dawei]

but it lets me refresh a message I want heard a few times

Im in 'pre'-agreement with Cd about mental health ,

and although we may have some difference in perspectives

as to whether this subject is the main topic of TTC or not ,,

It could still be a sub-subject , if you know what I mean.

 

That sounds fine... but I'm still not sure why your raising as you are.

 

Whether someone states serenity and mental health explicitly or through a metaphor of the infant state, it doesn't matter to me... but maybe you just don't like metaphor and stories. Some people need straight talk. That was already done so why would I repeat it... I like stories and metaphors. It's not for everyone.

[DragonsNectar69k]

Tao is what you want it to be. Tao is eternal. We are all eternal beings at different stages and places in the 'path'. The poems you read were inspired by the spirit of Tao. If you want to become a crazy ninja killing machine, you can. If you want to become a benevolent person who helps others, you can. There is no Tao, but the Tao itself.

 

"I'm pointing at the moon, and your looking at my finger..."

 

Stuff to read if you want informer24, have fun...

 

http://www.myrkothum.com/the-meaning-of-the-finger-pointing-to-the-moon/

 

 

http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/fall99/hundoble/

[Harmonious Emptiness]

If you want to become a crazy ninja killing machine, you can. If you want to become a benevolent person who helps others, you can. There is no Tao, but the Tao itself.

 

from Chapter 31 of the Dao De Jing:

 

"Good weapons are instruments of fear; all creatures hate them.

Therefore followers of Tao never use them.

The wise man prefers the left.

The man of war prefers the right.

Weapons are instruments of fear; they are not a wise man's tools.

He uses them only when he has no choice.

Peace and quiet are dear to his heart,

And victory no cause for rejoicing.

If you rejoice in victory, then you delight in killing;

If you delight in killing, you cannot fulfill yourself."

 

- Feng translation

[Stosh]

That sounds fine... but I'm still not sure why your raising as you are.

 

Whether someone states serenity and mental health explicitly or through a metaphor of the infant state, it doesn't matter to me... but maybe you just don't like metaphor and stories. Some people need straight talk. That was already done so why would I repeat it... I like stories and metaphors. It's not for everyone.

I like metaphors and stories too , but when wrong inferences are drawn , my enthusiasm for a particular metaphor wanes.

staight speech first -or after the metaphor -seems a good idea to clarify the limits of the comparison,, presumably one is speaking for their meaning to be understood.

For instance how childish is appropriate , how ignorant is suggested.

I read the ignorance -goodly to be found -just relates to internalized custom contrary to ones mental health.

That the nature of a person being discused is the healthy basic normative state. The artiface to be discarded is not instructions on how to drive , it is the nature of neurotic relationships that bring folks to suffer , or the unrealistic rules which bring sickness to the group.

The origin of what gets called good is whether a thing brings wellbeing to the group or individual

there is an eternal conflict between that which is the individual good an the larger social decision on goodness. Which good are we thinking of refers to the 'nature' of men.

I wasnt really seeing those delimitations addressed , and think that it is important to clarify ,since it often seems like their is confusion regarding those things.

 

I dont know what you mean by my 'raising'. Please clarify so I can explain or plead my case.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Stosh

[ChiDragon]

Maybe that is overanalysis,

......as to whether this subject is the main topic of TTC or not ,,

It could still be a sub-subject , if you know what I mean.

 

Hmmmmm.....

Is this a metaphor implicating that the sub-subject should be taken place elsewhere.....???

[三江源]

Its amazing what monkey mind can manufacture to pass the time, isnt it.

 

over analysis being one of the favourite internet pitfalls.

[Stosh]

Its amazing what monkey mind can manufacture to pass the time, isnt it.

 

over analysis being one of the favourite internet pitfalls.

Yeah it sure is a possibility and happens all the time when folks ,

when instead of coming to reasonable conclusions to reasonable questions

they arrive at the idea that they can turn invisible or

shoot waves of energy from their buttcrack out the top of their head !

At least I am aware my ideas arent the norm ,

they say the real crazies arent aware of their 'quirks'.

 

The title of the thread is 'help me understand'

and one does that by elaborating perhaps more than usual.

He said doesnt care for the poetic answers. (too simplistic)

Edited April 18, 2013 by Stosh

[Stosh]

Hmmmmm.....

Is this a metaphor implicating that the sub-subject should be taken place elsewhere.....???

No I was just pointing to possible mutual ground , are you implying that You think the subject and my opinions

should be taken else where because they arent Chinese enough ?

[ChiDragon]

No I was just pointing to possible mutual ground , are you implying that You think the subject and my opinions

should be taken else where because they arent Chinese enough ?

 

 

No, no, no. It was pertaining to the post of your counterpart regarding to metaphor. I thought you can read metaphors....lol....!!!

 

I believe sub-subject means that subjects are outside of this thread.

Edited April 19, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Stosh]

 

 

No, no, no. It was pertaining to the post of your counterpart regarding to metaphor. I thought you can read metaphors....lol....!!!

 

I believe sub-subject means that subjects are outside of this thread.

I guess I was thinking in terms of melvilles poor devil of a sub-sub.

Like I said ,I like metaphor , I wasnt blasting him for it,

I guess we are just out of sync ,

Have a nice weekend.

[DragonsNectar69k]

from Chapter 31 of the Dao De Jing:

 

"Good weapons are instruments of fear; all creatures hate them.

Therefore followers of Tao never use them.

The wise man prefers the left.

The man of war prefers the right.

Weapons are instruments of fear; they are not a wise man's tools.

He uses them only when he has no choice.

Peace and quiet are dear to his heart,

And victory no cause for rejoicing.

If you rejoice in victory, then you delight in killing;

If you delight in killing, you cannot fulfill yourself."

 

- Feng translation

 

Good stuff!

[informer24]

Spotless you say taoist cultivate the energies but never say how? So how do I do that? What do you do to do that? ChiDragon I am looking for tao but Im more of a tactile learner so I try to understand and relate things by doing. By doing I'll culitvate the sensitivity to the "true" message maybe or reach understanding better.

 

Like ChiForce said "Oh, that would be to achieve immortality through practicing internal alchemy and the manipulation of the chi energy throughout one's body via the yi consciousness. To obtain the perfect balance in mind and body via eating healthy food, performing deeds of merits, and meditation"....I have No Idea what internal alchemy is but as far as meditation is there a specific meditation that you would care to expound upon?

 

I sense there is some sort of debate goin on in this thread but you guys are arguing from a level of understanding that is beyond my comprehension at this present moment so Ill let that be.

 

So far what I have gathered is that tao is....i dont know..."let things just be" I guess?

[ChiForce]

Spotless you say taoist cultivate the energies but never say how? So how do I do that? What do you do to do that? ChiDragon I am looking for tao but Im more of a tactile learner so I try to understand and relate things by doing. By doing I'll culitvate the sensitivity to the "true" message maybe or reach understanding better.

 

Like ChiForce said "Oh, that would be to achieve immortality through practicing internal alchemy and the manipulation of the chi energy throughout one's body via the yi consciousness. To obtain the perfect balance in mind and body via eating healthy food, performing deeds of merits, and meditation"....I have No Idea what internal alchemy is but as far as meditation is there a specific meditation that you would care to expound upon?

 

I sense there is some sort of debate goin on in this thread but you guys are arguing from a level of understanding that is beyond my comprehension at this present moment so Ill let that be.

 

So far what I have gathered is that tao is....i dont know..."let things just be" I guess?

Well, internal alchemy is simply about how to circulate the chi energy within your body and how your internal organs can benefit from it. So, you will live a longer life. Yi consciousness is simply the mind or the intent of the chi energy and how it controls the chi. Think the chi energy as a car and the yi consciousness is the wheel. Without the yi consciousness, your chi would go nowhere. Don't get too caught up by these concepts because once the chi energy is activated (usually that takes years with a diligent mind and body cleansing), it would move according to its own accord. The movement of the chi inside your body is called the microcosmic orbit. Your greatest challenge to activate your chi. This is usually involving refining your sexual energy into your spiritual chi. Again, this will take times, years and maybe decades.

Edited April 22, 2013 by ChiForce

[三江源]

 

 

Spotless you say taoist cultivate the energies but never say how? So how do I do that? What do you do to do that? ChiDragon I am looking for tao but Im more of a tactile learner so I try to understand and relate things by doing. By doing I'll culitvate the sensitivity to the "true" message maybe or reach understanding better.

 

Like ChiForce said "Oh, that would be to achieve immortality through practicing internal alchemy and the manipulation of the chi energy throughout one's body via the yi consciousness. To obtain the perfect balance in mind and body via eating healthy food, performing deeds of merits, and meditation"....I have No Idea what internal alchemy is but as far as meditation is there a specific meditation that you would care to expound upon?

 

I sense there is some sort of debate goin on in this thread but you guys are arguing from a level of understanding that is beyond my comprehension at this present moment so Ill let that be.

 

So far what I have gathered is that tao is....i dont know..."let things just be" I guess?

You could try the book I mentioned. It would answer all of your questions completely, both on a tactile level and every other level, should you get a copy and use it.

 

If you reject the suggestion of using a really good instruction book as way too far out for you or something, then read around this board for a while and you will get an idea of what might appeal to you.

[ChiDragon]

ChiDragon I am looking for tao but Im more of a tactile learner so I try to understand and relate things by doing. By doing I'll cultivate the sensitivity to the "true" message maybe or reach understanding better.

 

I sense there is some sort of debate going on in this thread but you guys are arguing from a level of understanding that is beyond my comprehension at this present moment so Ill let that be.

 

So far what I have gathered is that tao is....i dont know..."let things just be" I guess?

 

I am glad that you are very conscientious. If you are looking for Tao, let's help you to find Tao first. "Tao" can be spelled with a capital "T" and small "t".

 

Tao, with a capital "T", is invisible but observable only by intuition from its manifestation to grok its quale.

 

The tao, with a small "t", is a principle that one follows to cultivate to be a Taoist.

 

The next thing is to do something physically to cultivate and how to become a Taoist as per your OP. As you have it "let things just be" is the key to the whole philosophy for the cultivation of being a Taoist. "Let things just be" doesn't mean "just do nothing but let it be". It is because one cannot do anything but let it be. Rather, it means let it happen like it supposed to be in a natural way. A natural way means "let Nature take its course" without human interference. Anything that is uncontrollable by human is considered to be "natural". For example, a forest was burnt down by lightning and thunder. It was out of control by human. Therefore, it was considered to be the course of Nature. I hope that make sense so far....!!! We stop here for now, just in case you have a question....!!!

 

 

道 (Tao or tao), that is the way it is.

Edited April 23, 2013 by ChiDragon