How Hermit Monks avoid transfer of bad karma to themselves

[Friend]

Edited March 29, 2013 by Friend

[lazysamadhi]

Depends on the measures you take I suppose, some people are so afraid of physical assault they never leave their homes so they become more fearful and thus vulnerable through their countermeasures. Many martial artists are consumed with fear of assault. If you take extreme measures to avoid bad karma like never loving a woman then you are most probably afraid of it so it has power over you and it has defeated you. There is a mutual exchange in sex so you may not be any worse karmically off yet a lot happier. But if you are not afraid of it I don't see much reason for taking any measures.

 

This shows how little you know about the laws of karmic energy transfers. When a more evolved soul (spiritual masters, gurus, etc) have sex or long-term relationships with less evolved souls (the common people found in cities), it is always the less evolved souls who benefit from such sexual or long-term relationships. What do the more evolved souls get in return? Momentary moments of pleasures?

 

This is why all the true spiritual masters advocate detachment from the senses and all things material. Are you saying that all the true spiritual masters who advocate detachment from the senses and all things material including Shakyamuni Buddha himself who threw away his wife, children and kingdom are afraid of his wife, children and his kingdom? If so, then you can say I am just as afraid as all the true spiritual masters shakyamuni buddha and jesus christ in history of bad karma transfers from the less evolved, more polluted souls on this earth.

 

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/bmc1/bmc1.intro.html

 

The Lord Buddha once said that it would be better that your penis be stuck into the mouth of a poisonous snake than into a woman's vagina. It would be better that your penis be stuck into the mouth of a black viper than into a woman's vagina. Clearly he likens all vaginas to be even worse than poisonous snakes.

 

When one is living in a land of poisonous snakes, it is natural to recognise and appreciate the fear one has for poisonous snakes. However, this doesn't mean that one should let the fear get hold of you. One should just recognize that this fear represents the danger posionous snakes/vaginas hold for spiritual seekers, confront this danger headhold and eliminate this danger bravely like how martial artists defend themselves against physical assaults.

 

Does this prove that all martial artists are afraid of physical assaults or that all spiritual gurus/hermits/monks are afraid of bad karma transfers from dirty polluted women? Hey if so, I would rather be fearful yet conscious of the dangers poisonous snakes/vaginas pose to my spiritual progress than to be brave and blindly/stupidly be polluted by bad karma transfers from the poisonous snakes/women in the world like how 99% of the world's men are doing?

 

Some master once told me that most women are looking to marry men because they want to suck the sexual energies of men just like how men want to suck off the sexual energies of women. However, because a lot of women stay at home just looking after children and men have to face the stresses of both their workplace and home, this is why a lot of men die sooner than their wives.

 

EDITED

Edited February 26, 2013 by lazysamadhi

[lazysamadhi]

IME that is simply not true. You can have friends and family and be around them and still be detached and not absorb there negativities. However, in regards to intimate relationships I would say its impossible to be intimate with someone and remain detached....the act itself builds a connection and can compromise clarity very deeply.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

Very wise words, greenful guru. But you forget that emotions get involved when you have family and friends around you and when emotions get involved, karmic energic transfers will eventually take place. Especially when your friends and family members are of much lower consciousness than you are.

 

Shakyamuni Budhha should have lived a much longer life than he did but he died early comparatively because he took on the bad karma of too many disciples and seekers. This is also why many spiritual seekers fail to find the right high-level spiritual masters when they go on pilmigrages to the East. Most high-level masters upon seeing the extremely bad karma of spiritual seekers would hide themselves even before such spiritual seekers get within 10 miles.

 

A lot of people claim shakyamuni preached the Middle Path but all forget that he undertook a long period of austerity. Well this long period of austerity of pain and suffering actually wiped out all the bad karma Shakyamuni Buddha is supposed to suffer as a King of his Kingdom, as a Husband and as a Father. Many think that life as a President or a CEO is a bed of roses. But it is not. When you are the head of a state or corporation, you have lesser time for spiritual cultivation and more headaches of the material life to overcome because you are dealing with the karma of many thousands and ten of thousands of lives.

Edited February 26, 2013 by lazysamadhi

[lazysamadhi]

Don't you see any contradiction with the idea of being good, but avoiding people like plague?

 

Also women having worse karma than men. Really frightening views you have

 

Being good is different from being pure. What is good and what is bad? Do you consider society's standards of what is good or bad to be the standard for everyone? Have a good job, be a good father/husband, do no good deeds?

 

There are many "good" people on this planet but they have "impure" thoughts.

 

I would rather be "pure" than to be "good" even if some people think that my "purity" is more "evil" than "good"

 

Let me give you an example. There is this chinese immortal woman who fell from the heavens above because she wanna have a love relationship with a mortal man but this immortal-mortal relationship is against the rules of heaven. So the heavens punish this couple by separating them forever.

 

Now some might call the heavens "evil" for separating this couple who is madly in love. Some might think it is "good" to let two people fall in love and "evil" to separate a couple madly in love.

 

But in the eyes of heavens, all material aspects of life on earth but especially the concept of material love between man and woman is considered to be "impure". The concept of material love between man and woman is considered to be the "most impurest" state of existence of all because it perpetuates the cycle of rebirth and death.

 

So you can say all couples in love, married and having kids to be "impure". All those movies and dramas encouraging couples to fall in love and get married and have kids and be happy with material lives are actually encouraging humanity to be happy with the "impurity" of material life as much as possible.

 

So as I said, I would rather be "pure" and "evil" than to be "good" and "impure".

[lazysamadhi]

Intent is important when doing these things. If your doing them out of fear then naturally your gonna be stiffled because you are projecting that fear and therefore attracting it to you. Clarity and focused intent are important in these things.

 

There are times when I have been psychically attacked or i have just been feeling "heavy"... the moment I put up my walls I felt "lighter" and had more energy. I am not clairvoyant so I can't see these things but in some way or another it works. That's what my experiences have taught me atleast and what I have also been taught by numerous teachers (shield yourself).

 

Love can be a very powerful form for dissolving....but at the end of the day it is still an emotion and emotions require energy....if you go out trying to dissolve every person on the planet you are gonna exhaust yourself and not be a happy camper.

 

Edit: I am not saying there is anything wrong with projecting love and joy. But it's better being happy by ones intrinsic nature and also at the same time protect oneself effectively (shields) so you can keep projecting that joy and love instead of getting knocked off balance by others negativity.

 

 

My 2 cents,Peace

 

Why not project love and joy as a shield AND keep yourself physically detached from humanity and as far away from humanity as possible?

 

Why do you think TPTB has created urban civilizations in such a way in every country that it would be more profitable materially for humans to live in cities than in the farms and rural areas? (Rural areas and farms have been losing too many of their young ones to the cities for many decades now)

 

When a group of thousands, millions of people live in a city, their thought-forms influence each other and their behavior begin to resemble each other more and more. It is like bees living in a bee-hive all belonging to the same group-think, group consciousness and it would be much harder for an individual to think differently outside of society's rules.

 

I have lived in both cities and in the rural areas and I am telling you right now. When I live in a rural area, it is much easier for me to recognize the game of never-ending desires and attachments which most city people are playing. More importantly when I live far apart from the cities and humanity, it is much easier for me to act on getting myself out of the game after recognizing the illusionary nature of maya.

 

The game of getting more material goods so that you can get more women or attract more men. The game of going to pubs and clubs on the weekends so you can meet more sexual partners. The game of trying to meet more people so you can network and know more people who can help you move up in the career ladder and/or meet more sexual partners. Women network to know more men who can help their career or marriage candidates with money and power. Men network to know more people who can help their career or women who can give them a quick fuck.

 

The more material goods a woman has, the more beautiful a woman can become by getting the next fashionable dress, handbag, jewellery, cosmetics and plastic surgery. The more material goods a man has, the more women he can fuck by giving such women the next fashionable dress, handbag, jewellery, cosmetics and plastic surgery.

 

And obviously, I have not even talked about food yet. The only thing more pleasurable than sex is food and of course the more material goods and money you have, the more you can pleasure your taste buds.The richer a man is, the more he can offer food to pleasure the taste buds of women and get sex in return. The more attractive a woman can get by spending on dresses, handbags, jewellery, cosmetics and plastic surgery, the more she can get men to feed her food or even better, spend all those money on getting the food to satiate her taste buds herself.

 

All these time and energies which you waste on pleasuring your senses and acquiring more material goods and money so that you can pleasure your senses. All these time and energies which can be used to help you connect with your inner god is lost and one day, you die and you lose all your material goods and money. Of course if you are lucky, you may get reincarnated as a human again but this time you might be a very poor man who will not so easily find the material goods and money to pleasure your senses so much. You might even be reborn as an animal which would be sacrificed to pleasure the senses of other humans instead.

 

What a load of bull.

Edited February 26, 2013 by lazysamadhi

[Owledge]

The Lord Buddha once said that it would be better that your penis be stuck into the mouth of a poisonous snake than into a woman's vagina. It would be better that your penis be stuck into the mouth of a black viper than into a woman's vagina. Clearly he likens all vaginas to be even worse than poisonous snakes.

What if that vagina belongs to a woman with a much more highly evolved soul?

 

Shakyamuni Budhha should have lived a much longer life than he did but he died early comparatively because he took on the bad karma of too many disciples and seekers.

How is this positive spiritual influence he had on so many disciples and seekers bad karma?

I think you're trapped in buddhist morality. Taoism hints at the possibility to find enlightenment through mundane deeds.

Based on your statement, Shakyamuni Buddha apparently practiced the high virtue of self-sacrifice and not being attached to the idea of immortality. I am sure the world is a better one after a guru shared his insights with millions and died at the age of 80 than if he kept a hermit and died at the age of 120.

Only caring for your own soul when all souls originate from the same source is selfish. But since your goal doesn't seem to be reunification, but individual ascension, I'm not surprised you are trapped.

And while based on more mundane wisdom one should not exhaust oneself, but care for oneself, too, this is not meant as a scare doctrine, but about finding balance.

But in the eyes of heavens, all material aspects of life on earth but especially the concept of material love between man and woman is considered to be "impure". The concept of material love between man and woman is considered to be the "most impurest" state of existence of all because it perpetuates the cycle of rebirth and death.

 

So you can say all couples in love, married and having kids to be "impure". All those movies and dramas encouraging couples to fall in love and get married and have kids and be happy with material lives are actually encouraging humanity to be happy with the "impurity" of material life as much as possible.

If you cannot handle 'impurity', you surely are missing an important part of the experience. Maybe a lesson your soul still has to learn. Material existence is there for a reason. You cannot move on unless you accept where you are right now. Your attitude is not pro-purity, but anti-impurity.

Also, many teenagers have serious issues from extreme Christian parents telling them how dirty sex is. It's obviously not a healthy mindset. People with issues like that tend to become sociopaths and tyrants.

 

Sentient existence is a fear game.

 

Love is love. Everything else is politics.

[Owledge]

Why not project love and joy as a shield AND keep yourself physically detached from humanity and as far away from humanity as possible?

I noticed how well you can project love and joy.

 

You keep rambling about the evils of modern city life, but you are missing all the more healthy relationships. What you describe is void of any mention of true loving relationships, which do exist. They don't fit into your concept it seems.

 

If you keep being stuck at this point, you could reincarnate as a hooker. That would surely force some positive karma onto you.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Owledge

[lazysamadhi]

Karma means "action". It's not some high in the sky idea that some people make it out to be. Everyday we make decisions or actions with our body, mind and emotions. Those actions have an effect on us and our reality.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

 

 

we are all one person living many lives separated from each other, yet in direct interaction with each other every day; unknowing that we go on to eventually live the life of our friends, family, acquaintances, and enemies alike.

 

 

So...

 

 

 

WTF is karma?

 

Karma is not just action. It is also about impulses, motivations, agendas,

 

Ever seen two pretty women and ever wonder why you feel like shagging one woman more than the other? Most probably because you have more karmic connections with that one woman rather than the other woman.

[Birch]

Folks, this thread is off-topic-forum-bound because the respective posters cannot abide by the forum rules concerning disrespectful content.

 

Mod-role and female-identity aside, the disrespect towards people in general in this thread is blatant.

 

Edit: We can consider moving this thread back to the main forum if some close edits are done to keep these posts in line with forum rules.

 

Thank you.

[lazysamadhi]

Clearly a misunderstanding of Karma.

 

Karma cannot be transferred and it's completely silly to concern yourself with such nonsense.

 

People absolutely can infect us with their issues such as anger, neurosis, and of course the other side of the coin with love, light, compassion and peace, but Karma cannot be transferred. We should be mindful of the people we choose to spend out time with and I'm all for extended solitary or silent retreats, but it's not other peoples Karma that we need to be worried about. We create our own Karma and sadly for most people this happens unconsciously.

 

Clearly a lack of understanding regarding karma. The best situation for a true spiritual seeker is for him to engage in a lifelong solitary silent retreat.

[lazysamadhi]

I noticed how well you can project love and joy.

 

You keep rambling about the evils of modern city life, but you are missing all the more healthy relationships. What you describe is void of any mention of true loving relationships, which do exist. They don't fit into your concept it seems.

 

If you keep being stuck at this point, you could reincarnate as a hooker. That would surely force some positive karma onto you.

 

If the yogis, daoist hermits and yamabushi mountain hermits eschews a life of physical detachment completely devoid of your so-called "healthy relationships" as the ideal method of spiritual attainment, then I don't see why a common man like you who had not even attain any semblance of spiritual achievements should think that your advice is much better than the yogis, daoist hermits and yamabushi mountain hermits of asia.

[lazysamadhi]

I have an opinion about this:

Have you ever consider "foreign energy" as wording?

Should be the foreign energy not given back or eliminate from a person?

Things stay if one has an affinity to energy.

Ask yourself what hinders you to give back the energy or let it go?

If you do not have the same in you -how can it stay so long?

The monks have avoid but not clean themself. They are still but the dirt is just sank in the water.

The other person has only to stir and water is dirty again.

How can one talk about Lotus, when one fear the dirt. A Lotus cleansed itself and all dirt fall down.

 

Ahhh but it is easier to clean yourself when you are avoiding dirt than to clean yourself when you are immersed in dirt?

 

Wouldn't you agree?

[Owledge]

If the yogis, daoist hermits and yamabushi mountain hermits eschews a life of physical detachment completely devoid of your so-called "healthy relationships" as the ideal method of spiritual attainment, then I don't see why a common man like you who had not even attain any semblance of spiritual achievements should think that your advice is much better than the yogis, daoist hermits and yamabushi mountain hermits of asia.

First, what is it that you label "spiritual attainment"?

Second, where is evidence that you are any better in that regards than I am? Do you base that merely on yourself as your own favorite example? On opinion?

Constant preaching against and condemnation of 'evil' is impure thought. I'm sure yogis and hermits have better things to occupy themselves with.

 

Try to RELAAAAAAX a little! ... You know what relaxes a lot? ... Sex! Hahahaha.

[lazysamadhi]

What if that vagina belongs to a woman with a much more highly evolved soul?

 

How is this positive spiritual influence he had on so many disciples and seekers bad karma?

I think you're trapped in buddhist morality. Taoism hints at the possibility to find enlightenment through mundane deeds.

Based on your statement, Shakyamuni Buddha apparently practiced the high virtue of self-sacrifice and not being attached to the idea of immortality. I am sure the world is a better one after a guru shared his insights with millions and died at the age of 80 than if he kept a hermit and died at the age of 120.

Only caring for your own soul when all souls originate from the same source is selfish. But since your goal doesn't seem to be reunification, but individual ascension, I'm not surprised you are trapped.

And while based on more mundane wisdom one should not exhaust oneself, but care for oneself, too, this is not meant as a scare doctrine, but about finding balance.

If you cannot handle 'impurity', you surely are missing an important part of the experience. Maybe a lesson your soul still has to learn. Material existence is there for a reason. You cannot move on unless you accept where you are right now. Your attitude is not pro-purity, but anti-impurity.

Also, many teenagers have serious issues from extreme Christian parents telling them how dirty sex is. It's obviously not a healthy mindset. People with issues like that tend to become sociopaths and tyrants.

 

Sentient existence is a fear game.

 

Love is love. Everything else is politics.

 

If a woman truly has an evolved soul, she would be wise not to get herself involved with material relationships. I know many female spiritual gurus who do not let themselves be polluted by men.

 

It is not just the Christian faiths who eschews detachment from sexual relations. Every religion and spiritual path on this planet tells us to avoid sexual relationships.

 

Even Taoism tell us the highest paths is to go to the mountain tops and cut yourself off from humanity completely, If you read Opening the Dragon Gates by Wang Liping, you will have an understanding of what the highest path of Taoism look like. It talks about the three Daoist Hermit masters of Wang Liping and how they criticize the mundane trappings of the so-called city life and civilization.

 

In other words, it is better to be selfish and pure than to be unselfish and impure. Selfishness can be a pure act if you are selfish from a spiritual point of view. Eg if you are concerned with your own individual ascension and enlightenment rather than other people's ascension and enlightenment.

 

I have seen many people who go out to the city and preach about god, ascension, enlightenment, etc but they are hardly enlightened themselves. Is this act of "unselfishness" this act of spreading the word of god and enlightenment a pure, spiritual act then?

 

It is really better for any one, any master to keep to himself and avoid the masses regardless if that hermit is still a seeker or has already accomplished full enlightenment.

 

If you are not enlightened yet, then what right do you have to go about in the city and spreading enlightenment among the masses? If you are already enlightened, then why do you want to risk trouble and hardships by letting the bad karmic energies of the masses pollute your enlightened being?

 

Material existence exist because the heavens want to test us. The heavens test us every second of the day.

 

Once upon a time, there is a man who lust after every material thing in life but he can't get anything he wants due to the fact that he ignores the teachings of enlightenment. Yet after he attains the teachings of enlightenment, every material thing which he ever wanted in life falls into his laps yet he remains unmoved by any thing at all. Why is that?

 

Because he knows heavens is watching him every moment of his life, all the devas, gods, elementals, angels are watching his thoughts every moment of his life and the moment he falls down again to his base material desires, all his bad karma which he had erased would return ten fold to him.

[lazysamadhi]

First, what is it that you label "spiritual attainment"?

Second, where is evidence that you are any better in that regards than I am? Do you base that merely on yourself as your own favorite example? On opinion?

Constant preaching against and condemnation of 'evil' is impure thought. I'm sure yogis and hermits have better things to occupy themselves with.

 

Try to RELAAAAAAX a little! ... You know what relaxes a lot? ... Sex! Hahahaha.

 

I never say I am better than anyone, I merely say that one should avoid the pleasuring of the senses in order to attain clarity in life as old green would point out..

[Owledge]

If you are not enlightened yet, then what right do you have to go about in the city and spreading enlightenment among the masses? If you are already enlightened, then why do you want to risk trouble and hardships by letting the bad karmic energies of the masses pollute your enlightened being?

May I ask why you are preaching enlightenment on a public internet forum then?

 

In other words, it is better to be selfish and pure than to be unselfish and impure. Selfishness can be a pure act if you are selfish from a spiritual point of view. Eg if you are concerned with your own individual ascension and enlightenment rather than other people's ascension and enlightenment.

Unlike what you are doing right now.

 

Because he knows heavens is watching him every moment of his life, all the devas, gods, elementals, angels are watching his thoughts every moment of his life and the moment he falls down again to his base material desires, all his bad karma which he had erased would return ten fold to him.

Wicked bedtime story!

Personally I prefer not being afraid.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Owledge

[konchog uma]

Clearly a misunderstanding of Karma.

 

Karma cannot be transferred and it's completely silly to concern yourself with such nonsense.

 

People absolutely can infect us with their issues such as anger, neurosis, and of course the other side of the coin with love, light, compassion and peace, but Karma cannot be transferred. We should be mindful of the people we choose to spend out time with and I'm all for extended solitary or silent retreats, but it's not other peoples Karma that we need to be worried about. We create our own Karma and sadly for most people this happens unconsciously.

 

thank you

 

not like its effective to reason with the OP

 

but its good you point this out for everyone

[skydog]

This is an understandable conclusion reached through attempting celibacy, not that I am celibate, but in efforts to avoid porn, M etc which can be pretty difficult seems some people develop all kinds of belief systems..

[RiverSnake]

Clearly a misunderstanding of Karma.Karma cannot be transferred and it's completely silly to concern yourself with such nonsense.People absolutely can infect us with their issues such as anger, neurosis, and of course the other side of the coin with love, light, compassion and peace, but Karma cannot be transferred. We should be mindful of the people we choose to spend out time with and I'm all for extended solitary or silent retreats, but it's not other peoples Karma that we need to be worried about. We create our own Karma and sadly for most people this happens unconsciously.

While I have no personal experience with this....my readings and talks with others have taught me differently. Karma can be be transferred but my understanding is it must be done so consciously. But indeed we should be primarily concerned with what fields we are sewing for ourselves.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited February 26, 2013 by OldGreen

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

What about Hermit Crabs?

[Owledge]

What about Hermit Crabs?

They're all enlightened. But they choose not to talk about it.

[safi]

If the yogis, daoist hermits and yamabushi mountain hermits eschews a life of physical detachment completely devoid of your so-called "healthy relationships" as the ideal method of spiritual attainment, then I don't see why a common man like you who had not even attain any semblance of spiritual achievements should think that your advice is much better than the yogis, daoist hermits and yamabushi mountain hermits of asia.

 

People tend to ignore advice that they don't like no matter how correct it is. You see it on this forum all the time. What traditional religions advocate is total dispassion. Now, naturally not all people are ready for this, which is why we should be careful how and where to preach. For instance I wouldn't advocate dispassion to random people on a pop culture forum, but this is a religious forum which focuses mainly on Taoism. The first verse of the Tao Teh Ching, the most important Taoist text says:

 

 

"The Tao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao.

 

The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

 

The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.

 

The name is the mother of the ten thousand things.

 

Send your desires away and you will see the mystery.

 

Be filled with desire and you will see only the manifestation.

 

As these two come forth they differ in name.

 

Yet at their source they are the same.

 

This source is called a mystery"

 

 

And there are other verses which speak against desires, including the one in my signature.

Edited February 26, 2013 by safi

[Jetsun]

Even if you are a serious cultivator and your partner isn't they may be many lifetimes ahead of you in cultivation, a woman who spends many lifetimes just caring for children and putting their welfare ahead of their own may gain far more merit than someone who has spent a few months of their life sitting on a cushion or waving their arms around trying to do qigong, who really knows how karma works and who is ahead of who?

[skydog]

nvm

Edited February 26, 2013 by sinansencer

[thelerner]

Go into the woods or mountains with mental/social problems and you're just taking them with you, dulling them a bit, but they're still there waiting and projecting. Going into the wilderness can certainly soothe our souls, but to stay there long term we need to reach a point of purity in our daily 'city' life.

 

To me purity is about flow. Losing our hang ups, desires and obsessions, opening the heart and getting the big perspective.