safi

Great Spiritual, Physical & Mental Benefits From Semen Retention (Celibacy) And Mental Emptiness! - My Experience And Thoughts

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Hi Safi & everyone,

 

I guess I will tell my experience regarding retention.

The longest retention i had was 2 weeks in the recent times. I have an ankylosing spondylitis (similar to rheumatoid arthritis but occurs usually from young age), and this cause a setback for this retention practice. My body would be quite tense/twitchy which I think that the inflammation on my body was increasing. The most intense pain was my back which i had the most arthritis problem there. Another discomfort was that I wasn't able to concentrate and my thought process become convoluted. I am also doing a MCO everyday however, my meditation became too hard and unnatural during the longer days of retaining. Libido was greatly increased at day 5 onwards, however at around a week later i felt that my sex drive became stagnant. The reason for releasing was that my body became uncomfortable and painful that it was unproductive for work. I was also became extremely moody the longer I retained. I also have gastric issue, and for some reason it was also elevated during more retention.

After release, my inflammation was completely gone, and everything came back normal again. But i still want to do retention since I also felt the benefit from it such as I became more peaceful, more chi but felt some blockage. Too much ejaculation would also harm my body, as I feel quite weak, therefore I opt to never ever have any sexual thought in the future as when it comes it becomes uncontrollable. I am in the mid 20 btw.

 

Please give a feedback on what I should do for an easier retention process.

 

 

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As I said in another thread, sexual abstinence should bring out the latent ailments and heal them so initially you might feel worse by retaining. Myself, I felt ill twice in the beginning. However if you abstain properly (both physically and mentally), then it shouldn't take long for you to start experiencing the benefits. 2 weeks of abstinence is way too little to experience anything special. You should at least abstain for 6 weeks or 8. Remember though that you must abstain mentally as well. Do not entertain sexual thoughts. When they rise, ignore them and they will eventually fade away. In time you will realize the futility of entertaining such thoughts.

 

It's better to experience the bad symptoms now and heal them rather than suffer from them later on in life.

Edited by safi

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Hi,

 

Yes, I feel the difference when i stop thinking any negativity including sexual thoughts. This helps a lot to keep a good habit going. The destructive force is when one keep wanting a release when one encounters the slightest form of stress. Let's see how it turns out.

 

 

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This has been an interesting thread... I will admit I have not read every post, but I merely wish to share my experiences and not question others.

 

I could say I am on Day 63, but counting the days of abstinence from something kind of still gives it some sort of energetic "control" over me. I know of recovering addicts who count every single day "sober". I would suggest in that scenario the individual is not quite freed from the "control" of the substance(s) or behaviors, but certainly a step in the right "direction".

 

Around the new year (Gregorian Calendar), I felt it was time to dedicate myself to getting away from the habitual practices I had allowed for myself. This was an across the board approach, as holistically, qi is qi. Realizing this then allowed me to assess how I was going to go about reclaiming my "Essence" multiple puns intended.

 

The Tao knows simplicity, my mind wishes to make it complicated.

 

Masturbation is not only a "physical" act. I will admit I have enjoyed "mental masturbation" much more in recent times. This being simply thinking in very abstract ways about "higher-level" concepts for the purpose of ego-mind gratification. It was an escape for me from a society that I felt more and more alienated from. Why? Because I had barricaded my heart. Emotional disappointment and trauma can do that to a person.

 

It was of my own creation and I own this.

 

In terms of physical sexual activity, both self-induced and with another, I was numb to it. Like I would check out during the process of, only to return "after", feeling as if I had just been used by something.

 

Personally, I am no stranger to "entity" attachment, and in another thread I spoke of a pretty intense bout with Gui that made me contemplate (though not through organic thought) suicide.

 

On December 29th 2012, I decided to stop all sexual activity for as long as I felt comfortable. I wasn't going to forcefully repress myself, but I was going to observe the process of stimulation leading to sexual and mental masturbation, such to understand the mechanism implicitly. After all, the human experience, in my view, is meant to understand it from as many levels as one desires. The more I understand the tools at my disposal, the more "conscious" I become of "the tao" since I don't have emotional knee-jerk reactions to things I do not understand and thus can just experience without having to color it to mold to my preferred reality.

 

Through conscious awareness and a process of simplification, I was able to pretty easily quell these desires. Why? Many reasons, but one of the more noticeable reasons in my perception was the fact that I wasn't allowing myself to have the wayward thoughts which led to sexual arousal.

 

More simply, I became more present.

 

When I was psychically attacked this last time, I was able to have a multiple perspective view of the experience. I noticed how "wayward thoughts" led to the slipping in of other thoughts that stimulated negative emotions, which led to more thoughts, multiplying the negative energy. The thoughts were simple at first, relating to failures and self-worth, but quickly escalating to self-destruction. In the process, I was able to stop before I actually did act upon the "internal" suggestion of ingesting many sleeping pills to see how many it would take to not wake up. The one thing I definitely noticed is that even when I consciously stopped thinking, the thoughts kept coming, each one adding to the emotional momentum. I was in the throws of a full-on psychic attack. Others would call it am anxiety attack. Call it whatever you want.

 

On the masturbation front, I would have experiences where I would just be hit with a barrage of quick mental images of "pornographic" imagery. These are the sort of thoughts I would act upon in the past, but I learned to recognize when the "cravings" would be inspired.

 

I do posses a semi-developed "sight" to see energies, and I have seen movement around me during times like these. In my current position of awareness, I will say that these energies are simply a part of having an experience within this density. They are not a "sickness", just an aspect of the human experience to understand. In many ways, they are here as teachers to me about my "self".

 

I will say that I am 33, and not past some sort of sexual prime.

 

I will say as well that as I have recognized "wholeness" within, my desire to seek it externally has subsided. Will I ever marry or even have a serious girlfriend again? I do not know. I do know that I am not going to pine over such an experience, since that makes the feeling of "lack" more intense. There is a part of me that desires to "purify" myself before becoming meaningfully intimate with someone again.

 

I will end with a couple observations...

 

Were everyone to become a celibate Taoist, eventually there would be no humanity to experience...

 

A mind struggling for "control" is the source of the desire to distinguish "right" from "wrong", this is simply what the mind does, what someone does with this awareness, is up to them, to each their own.

 

I appreciate the openness of people to discuss such topics, even if offered through anonymous means on an internet forum.

 

Much love.

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Anybody have any thoughts on mushrooms and how they relate to jing/passion/energy/celibacy (i.e. sivananda says they are bad for celibacy...)

 

I have experienced this passion effect personally with fish, eggs, onion, garlic, and meat... but have yet to notice with mushrooms.. I like eating them in my stir fry... the one thing i'm hanging onto... ;_; lol

Edited by ancienthealth

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It's been a while since I posted on this forum and this may be my last post here. I will state my reasons for this later in this post.

 

Let me start by saying that along with the good news today I have also some bad news to share. The good news is that I am still abstaining from sexual activity and today is day 197. Also, I haven't had a wet dream in more than 42 days which is a record for me.

 

Now for the bad news:

 

This experiment was a complete success for me and needless to say, I was becoming more and more joyful with my progress. Unfortunately, little by little this quick progress was making me more lax. I simply was not as diligent as I was in my earlier days. It's not surprising... a person who's in a bad situation will work hard to get out of it, but a person who has everything and is comfortable will find it difficult to work hard. That's what happened to me.

 

One day a thought came up that I should visit a pornographic website that I used to visit before my practice. Sex had become much less appealing to me but the curiosity was still there. Earlier (when I wasn't as successful) I would have simply ignored this but my success made me feel very comfortable with myself and I thought "a little look won't have that much effect on me".

 

So I did. I went to this website and I got aroused. Initially I wanted to spend little time on it but once you give into your inner lust you will find it very difficult to stop, so I ended up looking at this material for quite a long time before I stopped. I didn't masturbate or do anything physically but mentally I did, so technically speaking I have failed in brahmacharya. I lost quite a bit of energy but the main problem was that I had awakened an old part in me that wanted to do it again. I did it again on a few more days, the last time being on last Sunday. The day after I woke up feeling very bad. I can't describe the state exactly but it was a bad one which was very irritating especially when compared to the pleasant blissful states that I was experiencing previously.

 

Now, today I feel much better than yesterday but not as good as I used to feel previously. I have lost the blissful warmth (on the contrary I feel cold now) that I was developing and I simply don't feel as good as I felt before. I won't go in detail but even though I have retained some of the things I gained such as better eyesight, all in all, I have devolved.

 

I hope you learn a lesson from this story as I did. You must abstain mentally if you truly want to experience the benefits. Do this by mantaining equinimity at all times and not succumbing to lustful thoughts. I also understand now why some advanced practioners fall back into worldliness after reaching high levels. They become more comfortable and lose the diligence which they had previously. Always be vigilant in your practice! And that's that.

 

The reason I said in the beginning that this may be my last post is not because I have something against this forum but because I plan on reducing the time I spend on my computer (and maybe even quit) and focus more on my practice. And let's face it... using a computer, no matter what for is not a very healthy thing to do. Even if you want to live a wordly life it's much better to spend your life normally in nature than staring at some electronic box.

 

I wish you all the best.

Edited by safi
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Well, brahmacharya does not really mean abstaining from sex. This is distorted by westerners understanding.

 

Brahma is God (Universe)

Charya means "serve" or "vehicle".

 

So it means where one's mind directed to. For the mundane or celestial. Crude or subtle.

The problem may be in masturbation. I said it once before here. And in watching porn. This is realy no good thing.

I had same experience as yours before feeling bad and weak after watching porn. It has something like it's own entity which makes one addictive to porn and masturbation. I would advise to use the homeopathic remedy to help surpass it. The remedy is Staphysagria http://www.amazon.com/Boiron-306960701132-Staphysagria-30C-Pellet/dp/B00028O0T2

 

Normal sex with love is another point. The problem is to find good person for it.

In another thread I just mentioned I am going myself for 90 days celibacy from equinox to solstice. I do not have partner anyway and not going to look for it as have experience that ti find good girl today is like to win national lottery especially in small cities. I am okey with it as it gives chance to practice more not being distracted by someone else. The same as not staring at electronic box. Last idea is good too. It distracts much too.

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Thanks for posting this,now I 'll try to abstein from porn and masturbation for as long as possible(hopefully forever) but I still have some doubts about real life sex including sex without ejaculation.

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Returned to check progress.

Champion effort Safi... do not be disheartened... regain focus

I believe there to be dark occult work behind pornography... call me what you like, that is how I see it // some will agree, some won't, some will be indifferent.

I do not believe hiding from these things is best... (maybe after... the wild is the correct place to go deeper)

There is some tale of a monk in the mountains... years of meditation, came down into the town thinking himself pretty good... and lost his cool in a just a few moments.

"Out of the hottest fire comes the strongest steel." Chinese Proverb

If we can maintain our cool/awareness in the heat of battle - mushin no shin (mind without mind) - without fear of death, pain etc...

“Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life! Do not be concerned with escaping safely- lay your life before him!” - Bruce lee

hmmm - I think to conquer Mara.... we must become impervious... the only way is to test oneself, to see.

So busy street or pristine secluded mountain... no difference in state of mind.

With Mushin no shin... being "in the zone"

So there is still action in this... I dont like getting mixed up with the "non-doing" stuff

Just thoughts :)









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The desire to watch porn is coming from depressed sexual desire. I said it here before that it seemed to be suppression and it would not work well without appropriate spiritual practice. Only the way to surpass it is to process it. Through high level practice some of which go along with celibacy (not just seated meditation ) or just indulge in it not suppressing it letting yourself to go in it.

What stands behind desire to watch porn? This is the question #1. The answer is unfulfilled sexual desires and might be inability to find nice girl.

 

To resolve it, for example, one can go out and look for a girl on a street. Just to train how to talk to girls.

Or go to hot escort girls until you feel it is enough.

 

Then you wount watch porn.

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Those who have succumbed to the release, how long it takes before you feel that you have gained back some cultivation progress? I do agree that even though physically you are retraining your jin by not releasing, you still can't transform your jin into spiritual chi if your mind is preoccupied. It is almost like you can't reach to any degree of samadhi during meditation when you are trying to retain your jin. :)

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I dunno. I did not feel I lost much when "succumbed to release". I did not cultivate chi at that time seriously. And I think suppressed desire was some kind of hindrance. But after that I have been much more indifferent to sex activity.

I lost interest to sex or better to say less attached to it.

But when I felt it was enough I had less strength of erection. May be just was psych. exhausted.

And I used homeopathy remedies. And use now again along with celibacy. I am on 100 days program now.

And take Staphysagria granules again. It nourishes nervous system after extensive sex activity.

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Well I can't say I read every post in this thread, so please excuse me if I repost something already stated. I wanted to respond with my opinion to some of the posts. I have had an interest in this subject for over 15 years and have practiced long term non-orgasm/non-ejaculation at various times in my life, hundreds of times, for sometimes over a hundred days. I started studying it from a biological science perspective more recently and I believe that this paradigm offers the most fruitful understandings. First of, I would like to say that I think that loss of sperm/semen does not at all result in a loss of energy. If I were to use a hypodermic needle to somehow withdraw the prostatic fluid and sperm from their corresponding organs, I am wholeheartedly convinced that one would experience no loss of energy or mood changes. What actually affects the mood state, and 'perceived energy' (jing, ojas, etc.) is when one orgasms. In the end it is all about brain chemistry. Even orgasm itself happens in the brain. There are several key brain chemicals involved that have an immediate effect: testosterone, prolactin, dopamine, and oxytocin. When a person orgasms, there is an immediate drop in oxytocin, an upsurge in prolactin, and a 'downregulation' of the testosterone receptors in the brain. Furthermore, prolactin counteracts the effects of dopamine, and is also noted for causing a feeling of sleepiness, anhedonia (anhedonia is defined as a 'loss of the ability to feel pleasure' -due to the reduction of dopamine's effects). Oxytocin is the 'love chemical,' responsible for making skin-skin contact feel groovy, eye-contact to feel awesome, most kinds of contact (even light pain) feel delicious, basically its heavily related to feelings of love and bliss. When the testosterone receptors get downregulated, that means they aren't as active - therefore testosterone doesn't have as much of an effect. Testosterone is known for enhancing confidence, positive feelings, drive/ambition, and sexual desires. Prolactin can also directly decrease the amount of free floating testosterone in the body. See the wikipedia page under 'effects': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolactin Notice that they say that prolactin also produces a feeling of satisfaction after orgasm...in my opinion its just not worth the trade-off

 

 

So basically what is happening here is that our mood is shifting totally from one of love, heightened sensuality, confidence, positivity, etc. to one of feeling sleepy, amotivated, not as interested in sensual contact, to maybe even a little depressed as certain people are a lot more sensitive to prolactin's effects.

 

If you want to read some more about this, here are some good sites to start at:

http://www.reuniting.info/science

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201111/will-orgasms-keep-you-in-love

 

...and a good book to read, mentioned in one of the sites above, is 'Cupid's Poison Arrow'

 

...now this isn't all - so orgasms can lead to a loss of feeling interested, etc. which in my opinion led people hundreds of years ago to believe they were losing some vital life essence. I disagree - its all mood chemicals. Not here to argue about that. Just stating my beliefs - I am very Taoist, but I am anti-superstition based on ignorant understandings of how things work.

 

I have in the past cultivated the ability to have orgasm without ejaculating. I do not mean I 'injaculated,' I was able to have multiple orgasms within minutes of eachother without coming on the outside or the inside. I thought this was quite the trick, but it soon became apparent to me that my mood shifted regardless - loss of oxytocin, dopamine down, all of that. So there is no magic sex technique to keep having orgasms and not lose your feeling bliss - not that I have ever found. If you know of one please let me know.

 

So I switched to simply having non-orgasm/non-ejaculative sex (which someone I forget termed 'NONE' technique)...now there are tricks to this as well. For guys especially to note: If you get too excited you can get blue balls, and fluid congestion in the epididymis, vas deferens, prostate - basically your tubing gets congested, and it hurts and can't be healthy. The trick is to master the pre-release of fluids that occurs before actual ejaculation. You must never get beyond a certain threshold of pleasure intensity, even before the 'point of no return' before you come. You can actually feel when the fluid is starting to build. This is why the Taoists invented things like the 'Nine shallow, one deep' method. They were trying to stay sexually active not only without coming, but also to stay below the threshold where the unhealthy fluid congestion would occur. It is required to practice the penis flexion exercises (kegels, etc.) 1000x a day for men, with at least 900 regular contractions, and at least 100 firm/long contractions. This is why the Taoists would practice lifting weights with their penises (or use a wet towel). The whole aim of Taoist sexual sublimation (for most of them) was to continue to have sex, but not to experience the shift in mood, etc. from orgasms and ejaculation. With practice, you can have sex for hours, with awareness and control. In the beginning, you may need to move slower, less thrusting, etc. What helps is to focus your awareness away from the genitals, perhaps on your partner, eh? and also you should have a signal to use to notify your partner that you are getting too 'hot' I personally used a quick in-drawn breath as my signal. With practice you can eventually go non-stop for hours straight with very little pauses. It also helps not to hold your breath during sex. As long as your partner is willing, and patient, you will eventually be a fuck-master ;)

 

To be totally celibate is cool too..one way it works could be like this: you can't avoid thinking about sexual things - you are just asking for mental imbalance...allow yourself to be aroused, just don't purposely stimulate yourself to the point of fluid congestion. Or don't stimulate yourself at all, just allow arousal and enjoy it, but don't play with yourself. Enjoy your arousal, but aim to be aroused more in the heart and the head than in the groin. Don't purposely plan to arouse yourself, but when out in the world allow yourself to be naturally aroused by the site of a freaky piece of eye candy as is natural. You still should practice kegels for health. Just allow the delicious sensual feelings to be with you - don't run from yourself. try to turn all lust states, which usually hyper-focus on body-parts into love states which focus on beauty of anything and everything without being chained to a specific spot. For example, guys who orgasm frequently may focus just on the round globular things that girls have (or other guys if they are into guys)...Someone who is correctly sublimating will become aroused at the sight of things like an ankle, or the line of the neck, an ear...eventually you will become sensually aroused at inanimate objects. I've seen long term sublimators describe their state as 'being fucked by the whole universe.'

 

The excessive production of oxytocin that one who practices NONE technique is the base for a lot of blissful spiritual feelings, and indeed bhakti itself. The longer you practice NONE, the easier you will find it to love EVERYTHING. This is specifically important for experiencing samadhi or 'absorption' - the Buddha states that when focusing on an object for the purposes of achieving a state of absorption on that object, objects that are associated with a pleasurable feeling are easier to achieve an absorption state with, followed by neutral objects, then followed by objects one has negative attachment towards (such as painful body areas). So with the general higher level of oxytocin, samadhi is in fact achieved more easily, without a doubt. Vice versa, unless one has extremely good discipline, they will be harder to achieve if you are orgasming all the time. Although I do allow for differences in brain chemistry between individuals, most of the info here is true for all of you whether you believe it or not.

 

Now on to Karezza...Karezza recommends orgasming every two weeks. This is a good frequency for most guys. I've seen it written that the frequency of your nocturnal ejaculations when sublimating is an indicator of how frequently you should orgasm. This sounds like it might be useful. Orgasming infrequently like this has been shown not to influence mood state overall too much. However it makes sense to cultivate more and more control, and if you can go longer and its not congesting your tubing and whatnot, why not?

 

There have been reports of increased prostate cancer in celibate monks and priests. This is likely because of congested, stagnant fluid in the acini ducts of the prostate. So if you practice NONE on a regular basis, it is important to do self-prostate massage 1x/day...it only takes 2 minutes. You can buy a professional prostate massage tool, or use certain sex toys like g-spot stimulators, which are shaped/designed with a 'hook' on the end. I personally just use a drum stick from a trap-kit...When you massage the prostate you can squeeze between 2-10 drops out of the prostate, and this keeps the acinar ducts clear and keeps the fluid cycle from becoming stagnant.

 

Now I wanted to respond to certain posts:

 

Hi Luke, the practice that I have done and am still doing is simply mental emptiness which gives me a lot of control over my mind and senses, that's how I have managed to control sexual desire. Here's a trick... when sexual thoughts arise, don't try to fight them. Fighting against your own thoughts is useless and frustrating. Instead of fighting with them I ignore them and "move" my awareness to my "heart center". This spot that I'm talking about is situated near the heart but in the center, and maybe a bit lower... I move my awareness to this place because it is the source of my bliss.

 

To make it easier for you to understand where this spot is, it is the same spot where you feel fear, at least that's where I feel a disturbance of energy when I feel fear. I assume that other people feel the same. With practice, your thoughts (not just sexual thoughts) will start to reduce and the control over your desires will increase.

 

EDIT:

 

To be precise, I do not need to move my awareness to the spot that I have mentioned. If I clear my mind the awareness moves on its own to the spot.

 

I know the spot you are speaking of, and I am sure that what you are focusing on is the vagus nerve. It is this nerve which is stimulated immediately when you get an 'adrenaline shock,' and I believe that this nerve is also what is called the 'jen-mai' or Yin channel in Taoist microcosmic orbit practices. Please see: http://msresearch.hubpages.com/hub/Swooning-and-Vasovagal-Syncope and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagus_nerve and http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-the-vagus-nerve-control.htm ...

 

as of two days ago i dont really

 

all Im saying is there is great suffering IN semen retention...constant failure, suffering, beating oneself up, for what. to become perfect, enlightened, its there now.

 

Yeh it has "use" Im sure, but there is a downside too. Yin and yang

 

Furthermore certain parts of my body have healed when Ive gone with the flow and ejaculated.

 

Yin and Yang...I went wild on not doing, then I see this thread abotu semen retention...have to go to the other extreme.

 

Furthermore to people like me who go on cycles of fasting for a few days retaining for 2-3 weeks then going crazy with porn and repeating, this thread does nothing but piss them off and make them jealous..see here is a downside to this thread, and a downside to what im saying may deter people.

 

The excess emotional energy which occurs when sublimating can be mastered by choosing not to be controlled by feeling states. Allow yourself to experience them fully and 'feel the rush,' but do not let them motivate you into taking actions which your higher mind considers unwise. This is more difficult than it seems. Think of bipolar people, with their exaggerated mood swings. They give into the emotional excess and do crazy stuff..well, with sublimation you can get the same extremes of emotions as bipolar people do, but if handled correctly, they become a source of ecstasy and vitality. When i say extremes I don't only mean bliss, I also mean anger (probably due to the upregulation of testosterone receptors, and possible increase in free-floating testosterone) You will have more energy for exercise, meditation, and all good things. Learn to find stillness in ecstasis - learn to find calm in the storm of strong emotionality and you will benefit greatly. Be careful with your excess emotional power - you can get into trouble, or even believe things that aren't true (think schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, etc.). This is due to the fact that most of us let ourselves be run by how we feel - we make our choices by whether we're 'feeling it' or not, etc. Feelings back a lot of belief systems. Find your wisdom mind and make your decisions from there instead.

 

Thanks a lot for sharing that video, digitalyogi. I always wished to know what ojas really was. That man said that ojas is the cerebrospinal fluid. I don't know if it's true or not but it certainly makes a lot of sense.

 

In my opinion ojas is simply having a good combination of brain chemicals. You will have a feeling of power and vitality. What I think cerebrospinal fluid is is the amrita nectar. Having experienced its taste myself, and found descriptions of people who have a medical condition where the CSF actually runs out of their nose or down the back of the throat, and where they also described it as tasting 'sweet,' I am inclined to believe that CSF and amrita is the same thing. Also, I have read other people describe amrita being produced in such amounts that I am sure that it is not hormone secretions from the pineal or pituitary, as these glands are too small to produce such large amounts of fluid so quickly.

 

Whoever said this needs needs to be careful what they wish for. I can say from personal experience that lack of desire totally sucks. It makes me feel meaningless and dead on the inside. What do you want to do once you've achieved your desire of having no desire? Does sitting on your ass with no motivation sound enticing?

 

I agree, lack of desire is no fun. But the tendency to give into desire is also foolish, if done blindly. I think the best way is to view desire as a feeling state to be experienced and even cultivated, but also mastered by ones own wisdom.

 

Hi Mike,

 

The desire to do something comes not from yourself but from your "reward circuitry". In our physical system we have something called dopamine... when you do something enjoyable your dopamine gets a temporary surge. Sex causes a large dopamine hit, that's why it's so enjoyable. The problem is, when you abuse the "reward circuitry" (by overeating, excessive sex, drugs), your dopamine receptors will start to lose their sensitivity. This causes people to want more of the same thing, or to seek something which will produce a larger dopamine hit.

 

We see this all the time... most smokers will start to get less plessure from each cigarette and so they will smoke more cigarettes. Masturbators will start getting less plessure from each masturbation and so they will start to masturbate more or watch more "exciting" material. So on and so forth. Basically this happens because the dopamine receptors will start losing their sensitivity. Now if you do the opposite, and adopt an ascetic lifestyle, your dopamine receptors should start to regain their sensitivity and you will start to feel pleasure from every little thing. Even when sitting down and doing nothing you will feel some pleasure!

 

I agree...good post

 

Hi Eugene,

 

 

It happens because you refrain from sex physically but not mentally. Imagine trying to quit eating sweets while constantly thinking about them and wishing to eat them. You might refrain from eating them but your desire for them will actually increase, not decrease. It's the same thing with sex... by refraining physically but entertaining thoughts about it, your desire for it will increase and you will definitely get excited. However if you refrain mentally as well then after a few months your body should start to adapt and your sexual urges will start to decrease, both in frequency and power.

 

As stated above somewhere, I think that running after desires is foolish (unless done with 100% awareness and purpose), but running away from them is equally foolish. The middle path is just noting them, feeding off the energy they represent even, and cultivating them towards good ends. base sexual desire can be cultivated and evolved towards sexual-spiritual bliss towards all aspects of reality. If one is trying to be more 'spiritual' and less 'worldly,' then one can focus one's sexuality on heart and mind centered appreciations. Turn all desires into one if you have a personal spiritual goal. Use them like steps to get higher.

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Well I can't say I read every post in this thread, so please excuse me if I repost something already stated. I wanted to respond with my opinion to some of the posts. I have had an interest in this subject for over 15 years and have practiced long term non-orgasm/non-ejaculation at various times in my life, hundreds of times, for sometimes over a hundred days. I started studying it from a biological science perspective more recently and I believe that this paradigm offers the most fruitful understandings. First of, I would like to say that I think that loss of sperm/semen does not at all result in a loss of energy. If I were to use a hypodermic needle to somehow withdraw the prostatic fluid and sperm from their corresponding organs, I am wholeheartedly convinced that one would experience no loss of energy or mood changes. What actually affects the mood state, and 'perceived energy' (jing, ojas, etc.) is when one orgasms. In the end it is all about brain chemistry. Even orgasm itself happens in the brain. There are several key brain chemicals involved that have an immediate effect: testosterone, prolactin, dopamine, and oxytocin. When a person orgasms, there is an immediate drop in oxytocin, an upsurge in prolactin, and a 'downregulation' of the testosterone receptors in the brain. Furthermore, prolactin counteracts the effects of dopamine, and is also noted for causing a feeling of sleepiness, anhedonia (anhedonia is defined as a 'loss of the ability to feel pleasure' -due to the reduction of dopamine's effects). Oxytocin is the 'love chemical,' responsible for making skin-skin contact feel groovy, eye-contact to feel awesome, most kinds of contact (even light pain) feel delicious, basically its heavily related to feelings of love and bliss. When the testosterone receptors get downregulated, that means they aren't as active - therefore testosterone doesn't have as much of an effect. Testosterone is known for enhancing confidence, positive feelings, drive/ambition, and sexual desires. Prolactin can also directly decrease the amount of free floating testosterone in the body. See the wikipedia page under 'effects': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolactin Notice that they say that prolactin also produces a feeling of satisfaction after orgasm...in my opinion its just not worth the trade-off

 

 

So basically what is happening here is that our mood is shifting totally from one of love, heightened sensuality, confidence, positivity, etc. to one of feeling sleepy, amotivated, not as interested in sensual contact, to maybe even a little depressed as certain people are a lot more sensitive to prolactin's effects.

 

If you want to read some more about this, here are some good sites to start at:

http://www.reuniting.info/science

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201111/will-orgasms-keep-you-in-love

 

...and a good book to read, mentioned in one of the sites above, is 'Cupid's Poison Arrow'

 

...now this isn't all - so orgasms can lead to a loss of feeling interested, etc. which in my opinion led people hundreds of years ago to believe they were losing some vital life essence. I disagree - its all mood chemicals. Not here to argue about that. Just stating my beliefs - I am very Taoist, but I am anti-superstition based on ignorant understandings of how things work.

 

I have in the past cultivated the ability to have orgasm without ejaculating. I do not mean I 'injaculated,' I was able to have multiple orgasms within minutes of eachother without coming on the outside or the inside. I thought this was quite the trick, but it soon became apparent to me that my mood shifted regardless - loss of oxytocin, dopamine down, all of that. So there is no magic sex technique to keep having orgasms and not lose your feeling bliss - not that I have ever found. If you know of one please let me know.

 

So I switched to simply having non-orgasm/non-ejaculative sex (which someone I forget termed 'NONE' technique)...now there are tricks to this as well. For guys especially to note: If you get too excited you can get blue balls, and fluid congestion in the epididymis, vas deferens, prostate - basically your tubing gets congested, and it hurts and can't be healthy. The trick is to master the pre-release of fluids that occurs before actual ejaculation. You must never get beyond a certain threshold of pleasure intensity, even before the 'point of no return' before you come. You can actually feel when the fluid is starting to build. This is why the Taoists invented things like the 'Nine shallow, one deep' method. They were trying to stay sexually active not only without coming, but also to stay below the threshold where the unhealthy fluid congestion would occur. It is required to practice the penis flexion exercises (kegels, etc.) 1000x a day for men, with at least 900 regular contractions, and at least 100 firm/long contractions. This is why the Taoists would practice lifting weights with their penises (or use a wet towel). The whole aim of Taoist sexual sublimation (for most of them) was to continue to have sex, but not to experience the shift in mood, etc. from orgasms and ejaculation. With practice, you can have sex for hours, with awareness and control. In the beginning, you may need to move slower, less thrusting, etc. What helps is to focus your awareness away from the genitals, perhaps on your partner, eh? and also you should have a signal to use to notify your partner that you are getting too 'hot' I personally used a quick in-drawn breath as my signal. With practice you can eventually go non-stop for hours straight with very little pauses. It also helps not to hold your breath during sex. As long as your partner is willing, and patient, you will eventually be a fuck-master ;)

 

To be totally celibate is cool too..one way it works could be like this: you can't avoid thinking about sexual things - you are just asking for mental imbalance...allow yourself to be aroused, just don't purposely stimulate yourself to the point of fluid congestion. Or don't stimulate yourself at all, just allow arousal and enjoy it, but don't play with yourself. Enjoy your arousal, but aim to be aroused more in the heart and the head than in the groin. Don't purposely plan to arouse yourself, but when out in the world allow yourself to be naturally aroused by the site of a freaky piece of eye candy as is natural. You still should practice kegels for health. Just allow the delicious sensual feelings to be with you - don't run from yourself. try to turn all lust states, which usually hyper-focus on body-parts into love states which focus on beauty of anything and everything without being chained to a specific spot. For example, guys who orgasm frequently may focus just on the round globular things that girls have (or other guys if they are into guys)...Someone who is correctly sublimating will become aroused at the sight of things like an ankle, or the line of the neck, an ear...eventually you will become sensually aroused at inanimate objects. I've seen long term sublimators describe their state as 'being fucked by the whole universe.'

 

The excessive production of oxytocin that one who practices NONE technique is the base for a lot of blissful spiritual feelings, and indeed bhakti itself. The longer you practice NONE, the easier you will find it to love EVERYTHING. This is specifically important for experiencing samadhi or 'absorption' - the Buddha states that when focusing on an object for the purposes of achieving a state of absorption on that object, objects that are associated with a pleasurable feeling are easier to achieve an absorption state with, followed by neutral objects, then followed by objects one has negative attachment towards (such as painful body areas). So with the general higher level of oxytocin, samadhi is in fact achieved more easily, without a doubt. Vice versa, unless one has extremely good discipline, they will be harder to achieve if you are orgasming all the time. Although I do allow for differences in brain chemistry between individuals, most of the info here is true for all of you whether you believe it or not.

 

Now on to Karezza...Karezza recommends orgasming every two weeks. This is a good frequency for most guys. I've seen it written that the frequency of your nocturnal ejaculations when sublimating is an indicator of how frequently you should orgasm. This sounds like it might be useful. Orgasming infrequently like this has been shown not to influence mood state overall too much. However it makes sense to cultivate more and more control, and if you can go longer and its not congesting your tubing and whatnot, why not?

 

There have been reports of increased prostate cancer in celibate monks and priests. This is likely because of congested, stagnant fluid in the acini ducts of the prostate. So if you practice NONE on a regular basis, it is important to do self-prostate massage 1x/day...it only takes 2 minutes. You can buy a professional prostate massage tool, or use certain sex toys like g-spot stimulators, which are shaped/designed with a 'hook' on the end. I personally just use a drum stick from a trap-kit...When you massage the prostate you can squeeze between 2-10 drops out of the prostate, and this keeps the acinar ducts clear and keeps the fluid cycle from becoming stagnant.

 

Now I wanted to respond to certain posts:

 

 

I know the spot you are speaking of, and I am sure that what you are focusing on is the vagus nerve. It is this nerve which is stimulated immediately when you get an 'adrenaline shock,' and I believe that this nerve is also what is called the 'jen-mai' or Yin channel in Taoist microcosmic orbit practices. Please see: http://msresearch.hubpages.com/hub/Swooning-and-Vasovagal-Syncope and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagus_nerve and http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-the-vagus-nerve-control.htm ...

 

 

The excess emotional energy which occurs when sublimating can be mastered by choosing not to be controlled by feeling states. Allow yourself to experience them fully and 'feel the rush,' but do not let them motivate you into taking actions which your higher mind considers unwise. This is more difficult than it seems. Think of bipolar people, with their exaggerated mood swings. They give into the emotional excess and do crazy stuff..well, with sublimation you can get the same extremes of emotions as bipolar people do, but if handled correctly, they become a source of ecstasy and vitality. When i say extremes I don't only mean bliss, I also mean anger (probably due to the upregulation of testosterone receptors, and possible increase in free-floating testosterone) You will have more energy for exercise, meditation, and all good things. Learn to find stillness in ecstasis - learn to find calm in the storm of strong emotionality and you will benefit greatly. Be careful with your excess emotional power - you can get into trouble, or even believe things that aren't true (think schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, etc.). This is due to the fact that most of us let ourselves be run by how we feel - we make our choices by whether we're 'feeling it' or not, etc. Feelings back a lot of belief systems. Find your wisdom mind and make your decisions from there instead.

 

 

In my opinion ojas is simply having a good combination of brain chemicals. You will have a feeling of power and vitality. What I think cerebrospinal fluid is is the amrita nectar. Having experienced its taste myself, and found descriptions of people who have a medical condition where the CSF actually runs out of their nose or down the back of the throat, and where they also described it as tasting 'sweet,' I am inclined to believe that CSF and amrita is the same thing. Also, I have read other people describe amrita being produced in such amounts that I am sure that it is not hormone secretions from the pineal or pituitary, as these glands are too small to produce such large amounts of fluid so quickly.

 

 

I agree, lack of desire is no fun. But the tendency to give into desire is also foolish, if done blindly. I think the best way is to view desire as a feeling state to be experienced and even cultivated, but also mastered by ones own wisdom.

 

 

I agree...good post

 

 

As stated above somewhere, I think that running after desires is foolish (unless done with 100% awareness and purpose), but running away from them is equally foolish. The middle path is just noting them, feeding off the energy they represent even, and cultivating them towards good ends. base sexual desire can be cultivated and evolved towards sexual-spiritual bliss towards all aspects of reality. If one is trying to be more 'spiritual' and less 'worldly,' then one can focus one's sexuality on heart and mind centered appreciations. Turn all desires into one if you have a personal spiritual goal. Use them like steps to get higher.

wow this is highly interesting. i'm glad you could post this because it seems that the community has accepted the general concensus of what it means to be celibate. but, for example, based off of your research "vital essence" is not just a mystical term for your jing. it's the science of it that matters and by you breaking that down the overal process of ejaculation and its effects on the brain make more sense to me. wouldn't say i totally agree with you but i also have not totally resonated with what everyone has been preaching about semen retention (100 days)

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<long post>

 

This post is very true. Especially about the whole physiology part. I would have to also bring more attention to 'not being careful' with this new sexual energy. You very much can exhibit bipolar manic tendencies if you let your emotions to run wild. Many people who start retaining will say that it does not work for them and it makes them angry and frustrated and there are no benefits, this is because most people are not used to this energy. It gets better with practice, you definitely become more in control and many positive emotions and the state of well being arises instead. But before that happens you really have to keep yourself in check.

Edited by Ikkyu
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It's been months since I wrote my last post on this forum. I wasn't going to post again but seeing how this thread was ended negatively, I thought I'd write another positive post to show people that lifelong chastity is certainly possible if one is determined.

 

I have now exceeded my past record and am at 226 days of chastity, mentally and physically - this doesn't mean that I didn't have sexual urges in that time, it means that I did my best to get rid of them as soon as they arose to avoid getting aroused. I haven't engaged in any sort of physical sexual activity for about a year and 2 months - over 420 days - but real celibacy is mental celibacy so it's the former number which is important. Despite exceeding my previous celibate record, I still haven't reached the level that I reached previously, but I'm getting there. There's some sort of blockage in my belly which was caused by my mental indulgence. You see, with celibacy something was being gathered in my body, particularly my chest area (possibly upper dantien) and was giving me happiness and strength. After indulging mentally in sexual desire, that something started to become heavier and descend to my belly and genital area (possibly lower dantien) and it has been very difficult to get it back up again, but as I said, I'm getting there. Slowly I'm regaining the composure, strength and joy which I had lost.

 

To all people who are trying this, don't give up. Develop dispassion, disassociate with the body and brahmacharya will be easy to observe. A simple way to disassociate with the body is to constantly turn your attention to the "I thought" (look up Ramana Maharshi and self-inquiry).

Edited by safi
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Your level of self discipline and control is an inspiration Safi.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited by OldChi
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