Is this Mo Pai Level 1 ?

[templetao]

Battle Royal im game i want to see how bad Sifu Lin is to be honest. it peaks my interest.

 

Just to clear the air im Not Naziri I dont know mo pai and i never trained in it and i never claimed too. I know a few people that have, Jim and I emailed each other a few times but thats it.

 

Naziri practices mo pai and helps people aspiring to it and those that practice it.

 

My search is and always has been internal power outside of mo pai.

[Dainin]

If you take a look at the positive reviews of books by Shifu Lin, Hern Heng, and Mikhah Ben David in Amazon, a lot of them are by the same people, and the only (or vast majority) of books that they have reviewed are by these authors. When you look at the negative reviews, the reviewers have generally reviewed books by authors besides these three. It would be easy to reach a certain conclusion about this, but personally, I will withhold judgment until I hear more.

[GrandmasterP]

If he's still playing then my money would be on John Chang.

Mr. McMillan is my age. Kosta Danaos seems to have moved on and these other chaps no one seems to have seen play.

We could sell tickets, it'd be a good first Match. You'd still need a headliner main bout to fill all the seats though.

Dalai Lama v Panchen Lama , full contact MMA maybe.

[Seth Ananda]

Hey, I believe you templetao, but some have claimed that you are them... so if is can be sorted out beyong any measure of a doubt, then that is a good thing...

 

For as long as I can remember, templetao has been a fan of Master Waysun Liao...

[Seth Ananda]

I wanted to mention that Micah has always been upfront about his teaching name/identity as Hern Heng.

 

Also he is an avid follower of Judaism from what I can tell, which has a very high emphasis on honesty, so i tend to believe his claims... but that does not constitute proof... just me observing. All the religious people I know are scrupulously honest, at least about their dealings in worldly affairs...

 

Does anyone live near his Dojo?

[h.uriahr]

I've been on this board for a few yrs now so hopefully I have at the least a small amount of credibility.

I know for a FACT that templetao is NOT Naziri.

[Naziri]

FYI, i'm only popping in now and then when people send me a link to this and say things like:

 

"Hey so and so from the seminars posted," or "Hey someone posted your YouTube channel," which actually doesn't deal with any Nei Kung issues that i recall (all religion scholar nerdness), or "Hey these kids think Hern Heng is a pen name and don't know that it is your Taoist disciple name" or "Hey, these posters apparently didn't read that you are the 'editor' of some of Shifu's works," or "Why do these kids think that Shifu or even John would heal Jim, when John didn't heal him last time he ambushed John at his house" their words, not mine.

 

In any event, as i told one of the posters here on the phone today (you can check the IPs and posting history to see that this is the ONLY account i have ever posted on here and ever will), every minute i get tied up in a internet forum TALKING about Taoism, is a minute i am not training.

 

If anyone wants to get in touch with Shifu, you know how. If not, speculate away. For those of us who live and breath the Nei Jia and qi training, we probably have a lot better stuff to do with our time. i know i do.

 

Peace.

[Jamyang Dorje]

Micah is a really good dude who truly lives what he talks.

 

He's in Yellow Springs, Ohio, and I'm a few hours away in western Pennsylvania. We meet up to train regularly with other folks from the area and around the country, and will be doing so some time in December.

 

Like I said, anyone with a good attitude is welcome. Provided that you have $10,000 and know the super-secret Mo P'ai handshake

 

 

I wanted to mention that Micah has always been upfront about his teaching name/identity as Hern Heng.

 

Also he is an avid follower of Judaism from what I can tell, which has a very high emphasis on honesty, so i tend to believe his claims... but that does not constitute proof... just me observing. All the religious people I know are scrupulously honest, at least about their dealings in worldly affairs...

 

Does anyone live near his Dojo?

[seiko]

Well im not afraid to say it. But im calling BULLSHIT on this Shifu Lin guy and his so called lineage.

 

Videos exist of John Chang. However Nothing, Not 1 single thing exists on Shifu Lin. No videos Nothing !!!

 

Naziri You keep saying ask Jim , ask Jim, .. But in reality Jim has never even met Shifu Lin so therefore cannot verify 100% if he exists. Can he.

 

For all we know it could be Naziri sending those Messages posing as Shifu Lin.

 

Why also would Shifu Lin use Jims photos in the book and not his own or students instead

 

Cheers,

Edited November 14, 2012 by seiko

[flyinghigh]

Can we get of the ever boring money Issue? {flyinghigh}

 

Who the %^#! cares if a teacher wants to charge a once off fee for his services.

 

They have to eat, and this thread is called 'Is this Mopai level 1?'.

 

but it is most definitely not called 'Ethics of charging for teaching services level 1'

Any other ideas?

 

I've got no problem with a teacher charging to make a living.

The issue here is that it's a totally black box that is being offered.

As had been said, some might just have taken the info from Jim, added a bit of knowledge from some other sources, package it up nicely and put it on offer.

But then it could all be the real deal. However, to be convinced of that some more transparency wouldn't hurt.

Up to you if you want to gamble.

[Celestial]

This thread is done, time to lock it up and throw out the key. No one in here knows a damn thing about Mo Pai, that much is clear. Everyone claiming to have the secrets (for a price) are FRAUDS. True masters don't hock their knowledge through their students, students; especially over an internet forum. I don't care how private a master choses to be, a true master doesn't bother with strangers who don't put forth the effort in seeking real instruction. I've known a few masters in my time and they taught from a pure place, not from a kindle download.

 

Here's a suggestion, learn to Astral project and travel throughout the Astral Plane (5th dimension). There you will find immortals who might be willing to show you the way. John Chang said in 'The Magus of Java' that he was in deep meditation when he spent time in the white/black wave and spoke with God (and his former master on a regular basis), but what he really did was simply Astral project. It was obvious to me that this was the case/method (considering I've projected many times) John was using and that the language barrier was too thick for Kostas to translate the Javanese word for 'Astral'.

 

If you don't believe me, google "masters in the astral plane" and read up on it. To even Astral project in the first place you need to be completely relaxed as if you were in a deep meditation.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Celestial

[Seth Ananda]

No one in here knows a damn thing about Mo Pai, that much is clear.

 

Wow, who made you the expert? Thank god you are helping clear up this thread for us!

 

Everyone claiming to have the secrets (for a price) are FRAUDS.

 

So Chunyi lin and many many others who charge, or have dvd's are all Frauds, full stop, all of the time?

None of them collectively know anything at all, in any way, so we should all give up and listen to you? lol.

 

Thank you for illuminating us Master

[Jetsun]

It is very explicit in The Magus of Java that you are not allowed to make money from Mo Pai, it is one of the foundation rules and John Chang and his family lived in extreme poverty for a time rather than break it. So clearly anyone making any money from it isn't connected with Mo Pai, certainly they won't have connection with the spirit of the lineage anyway.

[Celestial]

Wow, who made you the expert? Thank god you are helping clear up this thread for us!

 

 

 

So Chunyi lin and many many others who charge, or have dvd's are all Frauds, full stop, all of the time?

None of them collectively know anything at all, in any way, so we should all give up and listen to you? lol.

 

Thank you for illuminating us Master

 

Does my post apply to you directly? Did you even read what I wrote? Are you Chunyi lin? Is there a student of Chunyi lin in this thread trying to sell Chunyi lin's teachings? Is Chunyi lin connected to the Mo Pai lineage, if so please provide proof of this. Go back and comprehend my post before you pop off to me with your sarcastic response.

 

This thread should have been locked a few pages back after the question "Is this Mo Pai Level 1?" (you know, the THREAD TITLE) was answered already. In fact, I motion that ALL 'Mo Pai' related threads be locked considering no one knows anything. This isn't an insult to members of this board, it's simply a fact. If people knew all 72 levels of Mo Pai - or even connected to the lineage period - they would most likely be somewhere in China (or around John's location) -- not on thetaobums.com

 

Sorry, time to face those facts and move on.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Celestial

[Seth Ananda]

Yes... If I disagree with your inane assertions I must have a Hidden agenda!!! :o

 

If you read earlier, I was trying to get this thread off money, and on to resolving who is or is not 'real'...

 

You offered nothing to that mix other than banal absolutisms that they are all absolute Fakes.

 

and you gave absolutely nothing in the way of proof, and called for the thread to be shut down.

 

You are not a moderator, and you are barely even new on TTB's....

[Celestial]

It is very explicit in The Magus of Java that you are not allowed to make money from Mo Pai, it is one of the foundation rules and John Chang and his family lived in extreme poverty for a time rather than break it. So clearly anyone making any money from it isn't connected with Mo Pai, certainly they won't have connection with the spirit of the lineage anyway.

 

Very few of us (like yourself) on here actually grasp this. It's sad to see so many fraudulent posters trying to steer people down the path of their own product line. Hopefully the tao will weed them out.

[Seth Ananda]

Traditions evolve or devolve, change is constant.

 

I personally do not break vows, but I am unwilling to say that a teacher may not decide to do some things differently, once the tradition is in their Hands...

 

I just can not jump in and judge without having the full story.

 

Maybe they feel the tradition won't survive in the west without some money being involved... who knows?

[Seth Ananda]

It's sad to see so many fraudulent posters trying to steer people down the path of their own product line. Hopefully the tao will weed them out.

 

Like who? You seem paranoid? Who here is selling Mopai?

[宁]

What Seth said.

This topic has been discussed many times and probably will so indefinately.

 

Also the cultural barrier is thicker than you imagine ~ of couse few people even think about it.

[GrandmasterP]

It is very explicit in The Magus of Java that you are not allowed to make money from Mo Pai, it is one of the foundation rules and John Chang and his family lived in extreme poverty for a time rather than break it. So clearly anyone making any money from it isn't connected with Mo Pai, certainly they won't have connection with the spirit of the lineage anyway.

............

That was back in the 80s of the last century. Since then there has been certainly one and possibly more than one MoPai schism hence these sub sects can say and do more or less as they choose.

In addition the chancers and snake oil salesmen who latch onto the MoPai name but appear to be making it up as they go along, actually benefit from the cod obfuscation and end of the pier mysticism attaching to the MoPai in the west.

Edited November 14, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Jamyang Dorje]

It is very explicit in The Magus of Java that you are not allowed to make money from Mo Pai, it is one of the foundation rules and John Chang and his family lived in extreme poverty for a time rather than break it. So clearly anyone making any money from it isn't connected with Mo Pai, certainly they won't have connection with the spirit of the lineage anyway.

 

 

Memorizing Kostas' books does not qualify anyone to pass judgment on this matter. While they are a fun and interesting read, they are 1/3 fiction, and quoting them does not lend any credibility.

 

The truth is that there is no such blanket prohibition in the Mo P'ai. The fact that Pak John was not permitted to charge for teaching or healing is a separate matter entirely. Perhaps it is the same for his successor - I honestly don't know. However, a great many of John's students have taught others and charged an honorarium, with his knowledge. Why these semantics are of so much concern to so many people with NO connection to the lineage is really bizarre.

 

For the record, Shifu Lin hasn't charged me a dime for nei kung instruction. I was already his student and had proven my sincerity to him. He is no David Verdessi, and is not in it to make money. Likewise, I also would prefer to never charge a dime, but I have the utmost respect for those who see the need to.

 

If this forum charged $20 per post, I assume many Taobums would make better use of their time here, and would likely bring forth a much more respectful attitude. The value of the content here would probably increase dramatically. At the very least, the slander would decrease, and more Bums might go straight to the source and stop hiding behind Internet anonymity if what they truly wanted was truth.

 

But alas, since you do not have to pay for the privilege to waste others' time, you are more than happy to do it. This is why like every other reputable teacher out there, Shifu Lin initially charges a small amount for his. Period. Paragraph. The end.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Jamyang Dorje

[Jetsun]

What you call semantics do not appear that way in the Magus of Java, the oath not to make money was a blood oath which was so serious that he couldn't even accept donations when he had cured people of terrible diseases and even had to force his son to give back money that was given to him in gratitude, his family went without meals and starved at times and he couldn't afford to properly look after his family in the way that was expected of him for five years, but he still didn't break the oath.. yet this isssue issue is just semantics. I don't really care what people believe now I am just repeating what is in the book, people can make up their own minds.

[GrandmasterP]

The labourer is worthy of his hire and even teachers who did not formally charge students were seldom averse to receiving red envelopes containing thank you gifts. John Chang did not accept payment as his guide told him not do do so however he did accept a partnership in a business and his wealth grew from that.

 

There's an old medium saying ...

" If spirit wants you to work for spirit then spirit will feed you and your family".

 

Nobody should ever begrudge a good teacher a fair living.

Possibly the issue here is what it is that some of these self styled MoPai teachers in the west are actually teaching.

They are all self-styled insofar as the on,y MoPai accredited teachers are MoPai and no westerner as far as I am aware is or ever was an admitted MoPai. Being an honoured guest or occasional student does not constitute , nor ever did; formal membership of that secretive and insular martial sect or its schismatic offshoots.

The westerners who picked up a bit from JC only learnt that which he chose to demonstrate to them and much of that seems to have been parts of his 'stage' routine comprising mediumistic tricks. Jolly good tricks too and they have their place and use in mediumship but as far as serious cultivation guidance they seemed to be very partial. Hence Mr. McMillan and Mr Danaos have very different stories to tell. Both were shown certain things and some of those things were not the same things, westerners amongst the MoPai seem to have been audience to a show, a very limited and contextual show at that.

Edited November 14, 2012 by GrandmasterP

[Wells]

The more I read about Mo Pai the sillier it all sounds. And that Bodhidharma was Mo Pai's top level student and Zhang Sanfeng. Can anyone back this up? It is just like Hare Krishna followers claim that Jesus Christ was reincarnation of Krishna. Nobody can prove but nobody can disprove it

 

Some people claim that Bodidharma was trained in Kalaripayattu some disprove it etc. Nobody knows, and nobody can prove anything. So I doubt very much in such a bold claims as Kosta wrote in book.

 

And surprise surprise as Mo Pai gets more and more popular we find out more and more teachers who are not even beyond level 4, and everybody is writing some books and have bolder and bolder claims, not facts...claims.

 

You have to admit that it really sounds silly

 

I completely agree with your post!

 

At least Jim has video evidence on youtube that he was truly a student of John Chang (John Chang and he himself in the same video) and that he has real internal power (making an internal power test with John Chang)!

 

That's clear PROOF that he knows AT LEAST the true level 1 & 2a Mo Pai teachings!

How is it possible AT ALL that some persons are so incredibly IGNORANT to doubt that???

 

Who of all these other wannabe-experts has these credentials? NO ONE ELSE!

 

These guys just want to have quick money from you for FAKE information...or for TRUE information that they got from Jim! PERIOD!

Edited November 14, 2012 by Dorian Black

[GrandmasterP]

Of the two westerners who wrote books Mr McMillan is the one explicitly resistant to the spiritualism of the MoPai.

I have posted Mr. McMillan's email address elsewhere ( at his invitation). As spirit guides are an integral part of the MoPai praxis then it is difficult to reconcile to what depth or extent Mr McMillan could fully engage with whatever it was JC chose to demonstrate to him.

The analogy would be someone who rejected the concept and actuality of Qi attempting to learn QiGong with a view to teaching it to others.

What is it that could be taught by such a person?

Physical exercises at most.

Edited November 14, 2012 by GrandmasterP