Shaolin Yijinjing Gengmenpai qigong seminar with Dr. Jiang Feng in China, November 2012.

[grady]

First, an introduction. My name is Grady. I am an American, a former attorney who has lived in China full-time since 2008. I am a tudi (apprentice by ceremony) and sometimes translator for Dr. Jiang Feng, whose knowledge I have pursued since our first meeting in China in the summer of 2007.

 

I am not a regular poster on Taobums, although I have lurked occasionally over the years, and a handful of long time members here have met me in person.

 

For those of you who don't know my Shifu, Dr. Jiang, he is a qigong master & practitioner of Chinese medicine who was fostered by the itinerant monk Xuan Kong in his youth, and who as a result of his training displays a range of extraordinary energetic abilities such as the tangible projection of "electric-like" qi, pyrokinesis, telekinesis, etc. which are commonly associated in the English-speaking world with "thunder path Daoism", "LeiShanDao", "John Chang's MoPai", "YinYang Gong", etc.

 

Despite being comparatively unknown in the West, Dr. Jiang's qigong and medicine are quite famous in Asia. He has seen patients in dozens of countries, and has provided treatment to more than one Southeast Asian royal family member and head of state.

 

There are a few videos of Dr. Jiang which have been posted over the years by various parties on youtube, some against Shifu's wishes and some with his approval. I merely provide a link to one here, which includes a short lecture in Chinese on the nature of qigong and its relationship to medicine, as well as a very small demo of Shifu projecting his yang qi in order to burn a small hole in a sheet of paper:

 

 

Recently Jiang Shifu has invited me to bring to China a group of Westerners who are interested in beginning training in the particular sect of Shaolin Yijinjing of which Dr. Jiang is the 5^th generation headmaster, following the passing of his own master this past year. These doors open and close unexpectedly, and Shifu's invitation was quite a surprise to me. Despite continuing to regularly treat patients from all over the world, to my knowledge the last time he welcomed a group of Westerners to come and learn his material this openly was in 2007.

 

The explicit goal of these practices is to achieve the most basic skills in our qigong method, the ability to collect qi in the dantian and then project this very objectively tangible, "electric-like" qi into another person.

 

An absolutely crucial requirement for success in these practices is an evaluation of the prospective student's meridian system, and based on that evaluation an individually tailored "empowerment" which is subsequently given by Shifu. This empowerment essentially consists of an "irrigation" (guanqi) of specific meridians and the opening of specific points with the master's qi.

 

It has been Dr. Jiang's experience that with proper empowerment and with correct, diligent, daily training, the basic skills can be achieved in a matter of a few years. Without empowerment the achievement of the basic skills is a matter of a few decades, if indeed it is possible at all.

 

As I am not yet qualified to perform such empowerments, and as Dr. Jiang has strongly curtailed his foreign travel in recent years, the seminar will take place near his home in the magnificent Yellow Mountain area of Anhui Province, an ancient center of cultivation in China.

 

This seminar will last for 10 full days, tentatively scheduled for the 4^th-14^th of this November, 2012. I would like to have been able to give more than this 2 months notice but I am obliged to follow Dr. Jiang's schedule. The tuition fee for the 10 days is $4000 dollars US, with lodging & airfare to be arranged separately.

 

This seminar will consist of an initial evaluation and empowerment by Shifu, as well as training both mornings & evenings in the jinggong ("quiescent methods") and donggong ("moving methods") of Dr. Jiang's yijinjing qigong system with either myself or one of the more senior Chinese students assisted by me.

 

This is my first time conducting such a seminar, and I am not a professional speaker or a professional tour guide. As such I am strictly limiting participation to 10 people, no more than that. If less than 10 people are interested that's all the better, as a small group will have access to more personal attention from Shifu and myself.

 

If you are interested in this opportunity please PM me here on the forum. I have set up a private forum where more specific questions about Dr. Jiang, myself, our sect of Yijinjing qigong, etc. can be answered and details of the November seminar can be addressed. I will reply to your PM with forum access info.

 

Based on a cursory review of past threads I am aware the Dr. Jiang is a controversial person in Taobums community. I am also aware that the tuition is no small amount of money. In short, you get what you pay for. I myself was very skeptical when I first met my teacher five years ago. Slowly over time my skepticism has been satisfied.

 

Dr. Jiang not only has the skills, perhaps even more importantly he has a proven track record of his ability to pass these skills on to his students, moreover he has a genuine willingness to teach Westerners, provided of course they demonstrate themselves to be of good character.

 

I truly believe this is the opportunity of a lifetime for someone interested in genuine qigong with tangible, objectively verifiable results, something more than mere illusory sensations. Otherwise I would not be personally involved.

 

I welcome any and all inquiries, via PM please. I will do my best to respond to everyone in a timely manner.

 

Best,

-Grady

Edited November 2, 2012 by leandro

[Practitioner]

$4000? Can anyone say "mcpai"?

[宁]

$4000? Can anyone say "mcpai"?

 

that would mean almost double, including air faire and casual shoppings for souvenirs..

[JohnC]

Wasn't Verdesi a student of this guy?

[Aetherous]

I know someone will disagree with this, but IMO people like this shouldn't be allowed to come to this forum. 4 grand per person just for training for 10 days in very basic methods and what amounts to getting a healing done...that's 40,000 US dollars these people are making for 10 days of "work". What a ridiculous ripoff.

[adept]

More gullible round-eyed westerners will be parting with their cash

[grady]

Wasn't Verdesi a student of this guy?

 

Indeed. David was the person who first introduced me to Dr. Jiang five years ago.

[grady]

I know someone will disagree with this, but IMO people like this shouldn't be allowed to come to this forum. 4 grand per person just for training for 10 days in very basic methods and what amounts to getting a healing done...that's 40,000 US dollars these people are making for 10 days of "work". What a ridiculous ripoff.

 

What is being offered here are neither "very basic methods", nor does Jiang Shifu's empowerment merely "amount to getting a healing done".

 

What is being offered here are a set of practices and an empowerment leading to skills which the vast majority of "qigong masters" simply don't possess.

 

If you think the seminar is too expensive, that's certainly your prerogrative. If you had met Dr. Jiang before and experienced his gong firsthand, I doubt you would consider it a "ripoff".

 

Though I'll be the first to admit that this kind training is certainly not for everyone.

[Aetherous]

Nothing is being "offered" here...it's being sold for an amazingly high price. I have no need to argue with you or even continue in this topic, just saying, what a disgrace.

 

As you were...

[YMWong]

If you think the seminar is too expensive, that's certainly your prerogrative.

 

I am afraid that is the prerogative of any normal person, the vast vast majority of us

 

If you had met Dr. Jiang before and experienced his gong firsthand, I doubt you would consider it a "ripoff".

 

So the fact that HE has certain skills, which remains to be seen, would make the amount of money requested fair?

 

And what about somebody's morale, beyond his skills, for asking about ~400 times the average salary for 10 days of work in China?

 

That would be like making ~2-300,000 US$ in America for 10 days of work: would you find that acceptable ?

 

 

YM

Edited August 27, 2012 by YMWong

[宁]

BTW, i looked on other websites about your school, it seems that there is an official statement about the fees:

- no fees for becoming a student, only for treatments, and the student needs to cover the expenses of the trip, food and lodgings..

all of a sudden amounting to 4 grand, i'd say it's a bit fishy...

 

and yes, can you say why was this worth it for you? just for seeing some ability demo? what else?

 

there isn't any info concerning claims as to what does this training do. wouldn't you think a good commercial would include some?

[grady]

So the fact that HE has certain skills, which remains to be seen, would make the amount of money requested fair?

 

And what about somebody's morale, beyond his skills, for asking about ~400 times the average salary for 10 days of work in China?

 

That would be like making ~2-300,000 US$ in America for 10 days of work: would you find that acceptable ?

 

The fact that not only can he *demonstrate* the skills that practically no on else has, but that he also has a verifiable track record of successfully *transmitting* them to his students, that the transmission takes place within a comparatively *short* timespan, and that he is *willing* to do so ... *that* is what makes it worth it.

 

Again, this presupposes that you are actually interested to cultivating the ability to demonstrate objectively verifiable qi phenomena. If you aren't, and subjective experience is sufficient reward for your efforts (no judgment here), then it's a moot point.

Edited August 27, 2012 by leandro

[grady]

BTW, i looked on other websites about your school, it seems that there is an official statement about the fees:

- no fees for becoming a student, only for treatments, and the student needs to cover the expenses of the trip, food and lodgings..

all of a sudden amounting to 4 grand, i'd say it's a bit fishy...

 

and yes, can you say why was this worth it for you? just for seeing some ability demo? what else?

 

there isn't any info concerning claims as to what does this training do. wouldn't you think a good commercial would include some?

 

I imagine you're referring to the Romanian group.

 

They are lovely people.

 

I have assisted in translating for their group before, and I imagine I likely will again.

 

I believe they may also train with Wang Liping, and perhaps other teachers in China as well.

 

If my experience was any indication their trips to China to see Dr. Jiang are largely medical in nature, but there is definitely a practice/training component to what they do, as I have witnessed Shifu evaluating the progress of a few members of their group firsthand.

 

At the end of the day I frankly don't know what they pay, and as far as I'm concerned that's their private matter and none of my business.

 

If you are interested in what they do, I encourage you to contact them.

Edited August 27, 2012 by leandro

[YMWong]

The fact that not only can he *demonstrate* the skills that practically no on else has, but that he also has a verifiable track record of successfully *transmitting* them to his students, that the transmission takes place within a comparatively *short* timespan, and that he is *willing* to do so ... *that* is what makes it worth it.

 

So let's say that in a "comparatively short" timefrane one can learn from him, say it is in 10 seminars - 10 *4,000 = 40,000 US$ to learn to cut a hole on a piece of paper ? This is worth it, in your opinion, right ?

 

Again, this presupposes that you are actually interested to cultivating the ability to demonstrate objectively verifiable qi phenomena.

 

I can demonstrate the same "phenomena" with a laser pen which is maybe 1/1000 of that cost, and can do it in an even more "comparatively short" time. Are you interested ?

 

YM

[Wells]

Indeed. David was the person who first introduced me to Dr. Jiang five years ago.

How much of the $4.000 goes into David's pocket without Jiang even knowing about it...?

We all know how David did rip off guys for visiting John Chang without Chang even knowing about it.

[Wells]

I can demonstrate the same "phenomena" with a laser pen which is maybe 1/1000 of that cost, and can do it in an even more "comparatively short" time. Are you interested ?

Who says that a buddy of Jiang doesn't do it the same way from the background while everyone was staring on the paper...? The clearly visible light spot on the paper does look very much like a laser beam to me...

Edited August 27, 2012 by Dorian Black

[RiverSnake]

Geez....what a warzone there is here....

 

-My 2 cents, Peace

[deepforest]

Leandro,

 

this seminar sounds very interesting, if quite pricey.

Can you give us some more information on these points that had been mentioned in the past:

1. The Apple article on the student from Taiwan.

2. The initiation ceremony with the qi/erection test as described by your fellow Malaysian student.

3. We all have heard the story of Jiang's master taking the qi from the cows to pass it on to a person in need for healing or faster progress. Since he was a Shaolin Buddhist monk it looks unusual as they normally follow the non-violence oath. Can you offer a different perspective?

4. You're writing that Jiang is the "5th generation headmaster". In other info it says that he's the 97th generation in the YiJinJing lineage. Which one is right? How do they differ?

[grady]

Leandro,

 

this seminar sounds very interesting, if quite pricey.

Can you give us some more information on these points that had been mentioned in the past:

1. The Apple article on the student from Taiwan.

2. The initiation ceremony with the qi/erection test as described by your fellow Malaysian student.

3. We all have heard the story of Jiang's master taking the qi from the cows to pass it on to a person in need for healing or faster progress. Since he was a Shaolin Buddhist monk it looks unusual as they normally follow the non-violence oath. Can you offer a different perspective?

4. You're writing that Jiang is the "5th generation headmaster". In other info it says that he's the 97th generation in the YiJinJing lineage. Which one is right? How do they differ?

 

Good questions.

 

1: A disgruntled student who wanted immediate results and subsequently slandered Shifu in an article, then publicly retracted his statements later. Unfortunately publishing retractions is less enticing than publishing defamatory articles.

2: I have only met a few of the Malaysian students, and I have not met the one to whom you are referring. I do however remember Shifu mentioning that procedure in passing in a conversation, and I've read that article. My understanding was that it was a special case. (I am tudi, and while I have undergone similar empowerments to what is described in that article, nudity was never required, and Shifu has never needed to personally check the strength of my manhood). Shifu teaches by prescription, and he empowers by prescription as well. However much we each share in common, every body-mind is different.

3: That procedure involved the transfer of qi from an animal to human for medical purposes. The animals were not killed. I am not a scholar of buddhist ethics, but it doesn't seem to me that the five precepts were broken. Unusual certainly, but done to achieve a compassionate end.

4: In short, it depends on which ancestor you count from.

 

More information is provided on the forum.

 

Please PM me if you are interested.

Edited August 28, 2012 by leandro

[YMWong]

1: A disgruntled student who wanted immediate results and subsequently slandered Shifu in an article, then publicly retracted his statements later. Unfortunately publishing retractions is less enticing than publishing defamatory articles.

 

I recall at the time the first article was available on the web portal of the journal/magazine so I suppose the retraction is also available: would you be so kind to point me to that material?

 

Thanks

 

YM

[Neikung]

1: A disgruntled student who wanted immediate results and subsequently slandered Shifu in an article, then publicly retracted his statements later. Unfortunately publishing retractions is less enticing than publishing defamatory articles.

 

I also remember reading the original article (in Chinese) but couldn't find the retraction in the Taiwan Apple Daily web site. It would be good (like YMWong said) if you can point us to a link to the retraction or a keyword that one should enter into the Apple Daily web site.

I am also curious to what Gengmenpai is. I can't find a reference anywhere in google or baidu. Does Sifu Jiang's training consist of different levels and fusion of yin and yang? David Verdesi called it part of leishantao (thunderpart toism), does your Sifu agree with that characterization since Shaolin is not known to be taoist?

 

Thanks.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Neikung

[grady]

I also remember reading the original article (in Chinese) but couldn't find the retraction in the Taiwan Apple Daily web site. It would be good (like YMWong said) if you can point us to a link to the retraction or a keyword that one should enter into the Apple Daily web site.

I am also curious to what Gengmenpai is. I can't find a reference anywhere in google or baidu. Does Sifu Jiang's training consist of different levels and fusion of yin and yang? David Verdesi called it part of leishantao (thunderpart toism), does your Sifu agree with that characterization since Shaolin is not known to be taoist?

 

Thanks.

 

I am not certain when, where, or even *if* his retractions were ever published. As I said, "Unfortunately publishing retractions is less enticing than publishing defamatory articles."

 

For a lark I tried to see if I could find it just now but apparently the Apple Daily's website has been "harmonized" (is blocked for the mainland).

 

I can understand why someone who has nothing but the internet to go on would be obsessed with these kinds of allegations, but it's just not a priority for me anymore. I have witnessed these phenomena (and others which have yet to be shared) dozens of times and I have always been very skeptical, always checking for places devices could be hidden, always watching for assistants doing something sly, always angling to see things impromptu or in a different context, always listening to Shifu speaking with the others in their native dialect (some of which I have grown to understand over the years) to see if they would spill something ... indeed it was my skepticism which directly prompted the infamous "t-shirt burning demo" in 2007 at our first meeting in which I took the shirt off my back and Shifu burned a few holes in it from a distance with his yang qi at an elevation of over 10,000 feet, video of which I believe may have been leaked on this forum for a short time ... trust me, I get it.

 

You are not going to find a great deal of references to the "Gengmenpai" name, although they are out there (in Mandarin of course) although a number of people have written it with the wrong character (including the Apple Daily article, if memory serves) which is both amusing and instructive. Shifu is not big on formal names and usually just calls what we do "Yijinjing".

 

"Does Sifu Jiang's training consist of ... fusion of yin and yang?" Yes.

 

As for the term "LeiShanDao" I believe David is the only one who uses it; Jiang Shifu and my Chinese brother students at least do not.

Edited August 29, 2012 by leandro

[ching chong]

Hi Leandro,

 

Thanks for deciding to post this information about the seminar. Regardless of our opinions its nice to see a decent discussion going on here related to this topic.

 

My concern is (according to whats on the net btw..) david verdesi and others have had the transfer, but to my knowledge they still cannot perform any external qi demonstrations, even after after 5 years of daily training. Many of these people such as david are also said to have extensive backgrounds in qigong to begin with and have trained with great masters like john chang. So i have my doubts about the average joe getting very far.

 

Would you care to tell us about any student abilities or experiences.

 

A question about the training. To your understanding is this a hard or soft style qigong/neigong.

 

regards

[YMWong]

I am not certain when, where, or even *if* his retractions were ever published. As I said, "Unfortunately publishing retractions is less enticing than publishing defamatory articles."

 

Well, you also said

A disgruntled student who wanted immediate results and subsequently slandered Shifu in an article, then publicly retracted his statements later.

but now you are not sure about that anymore.

 

I would tend to exclude the Apple Daily anyway, as I recall quite clearly having checked and found the original article with Jiang's string that - however - did not give result of the supposed rebuttal.

 

Frankly speaking, I still doubt there was any

 

YM

Edited August 29, 2012 by YMWong

[YMWong]

Just checked again, this is the original article

 

http://www.appledaily.com.tw/appledaily/article/headline/20070715/3644468/applesearch/

 

that can be found with Jiang's name as a string.

 

No rebuttal can be found on the same magazine with that string.

 

YM