Is is possible to get to the point were you can cultivate massive good merit doing certain practices?

[AstralProjectee]

Is is possible to get to the point were you can cultivate massive good merit doing certain practices? Thanks.

 

Peace!

[Informer]

You can erase negative karma with compassion/forgiveness for all parties involved Although it likely compounds if you repeat the deed again.

 

Good karma just requires positive influence towards the collective humanity in general. (imo)

Edited May 8, 2012 by Informer

[Cat Pillar]

Is is possible to get to the point were you can cultivate massive good merit doing certain practices? Thanks.

 

Peace!

 

I hear service to others is a pretty good practice for generating good merit. Y'know, charity work and stuff like that.

[AstralProjectee]

I hear service to others is a pretty good practice for generating good merit. Y'know, charity work and stuff like that.

What I am asking is, is it possible for one to cultivate good merit by Taoist practices alone. Thanks.

 

Peace!

Edited May 8, 2012 by AstralProjectee

[Cat Pillar]

What I am asking is, is it possible for one to cultivate good merit by Taoist practices alone. Thanks.

 

Peace!

 

I don't know about generating good merit in a direct karmic sense, but I think there's certainly an indirect "bonus" to one's merit if they're dedicated to effective Taoist practices.

 

By refining and developing yourself, it seems that one would naturally begin to behave in a manner that generates "good merit."

 

In other words, I am skeptical about karmic "short-cuts."

[thelerner]

I don't know much about it, but there is an old time school of Eastern thought that feeding 'hungry ghosts' gives you mucho merit. In the same vein certain purchasing Fu's and giving proper donations to Taoist Temples also buys you merit.

 

Mind you, that ain't my religion or inclination, but we've had some members here who were strongly for it, namely, Plato and Mak Ti Sin.

 

 

Personally I don't think the universe keeps score. Yet we're part of the world and have choices. Selfishness is ultimately self destructive. Helping others, making the world a better place is its own reward, no book keeper needed.

Edited May 8, 2012 by thelerner

[Cat Pillar]

Personally I don't think the universe keeps score. Yet we're part of the world and have choices. Selfishness is ultimately self destructive. Helping others, making the world a better place is its own reward, no book keeper needed.

 

I don't think the concept of a bookkeeper is really necessary to consider the idea of karma. Essentially, my personal view is much like your own. "Merit" or "karma" is the result of a cause-and-affect - you reap what you sow.

 

This is why I don't really consider the practices themselves to be generators of good merit. It's the effect the practices have on your behaviors and the way you interact with the world which produces the indirect changes in one's merit, at least as far as I see it.

 

I definitely don't think there's some kind of points system. Hehe, that's an amusing thought though. "I'm only 10,000 merit points away from unlocking my second siddhi! I'd better get back to grinding!"

 

[goldenfox]

Yes, its possible. By cultivation you awaken virtue and make it more and more an expression of your character. Then whatever actions you perform are of a pure nature, yielding merit in the form of good karma.

 

From the yogic perspective, there are three qualities of Nature that permeate all creation vibrationally. These are sattva (elevating), rajas (passionate, activating) and tamas (negative, obstructing). Most people are functioning mostly within the realm of rajas and tamas, with little sattva here and there. Even the three main nerves or channels of the body, are related to the three qualities. Ida and pingala, or solar and lunar nerve, are the double helix running from the base of spine to the brow around the central sushumna channel in the spine. People's energy moves in these two auxiliary channels until by spiritual development they are able to enter into the sushumna by meditation and control of qi. These two channels are expressing rajas and tamas, respectively. Only the sushumna express purity and virtue, or sattva. Further, the higher you go in the sushumna from the base of the spine to the brain, the nearer you are to increasingly more spiritual qualities, until at last you go beyond all the qualities, including sattva (this occurs once you get to the point where the three nerves unite in the brow point, thereafter you are functioning between the brow and crown, which is the region of freedom from delusion. A golden ball and chain is still a ball and chain, and in order to go beyond karma itself, beyond merit and demerit itself, is the result of true enlightenment. This is the essence of the Taoist concept of action without action.

Edited May 8, 2012 by goldenfox

[Harmonious Emptiness]

...

Edited May 8, 2012 by Harmonious Emptiness

[de_paradise]

I tend to believe that there are ultra subtle threads that link action and reaction, that are as if tallied up, similar to the concept of karma. It makes sense, but I cannot prove this.

 

But what I can prove to myself is this, positive emotions, thought-states, dreams, positive intentions, and external behavior all affect my energy body. Tendancies and habits can be either helpful to or hindering to the energy flow in my body, its speed, its efficacity in removing the toxins, knots, etc. So one doesnt need to bother with the concept of merit, just deal with obeservable cause-effect.

 

I believe that from the point of view of the universe, practise of cultivation is merit, as if you were doing something good. Evolution is the direction of the universe. Again merit seems kind of a clunky way to cognize things, when you can just say, I'm going the way the universe is going.

[hagar]

Is is possible to get to the point were you can cultivate massive good merit doing certain practices? Thanks.

 

Peace!

 

Keep it simple. Asking if Daoist methods can be practiced to create merit is like asking if a Ford can get you to Nantucket. It probably will, but what's in Nantucket for you?

 

I really don't have a clue if "merit" exists, yet the Daoist concept of "Te", wrongly translated to "virtue" actually holds a great key to all this. In realizing our "Te", we regain or recognize our own integrity, and power, yet this integrity is deeply non-personal.

 

When you look at a baby, you feel compelled to be kind. Does the baby practice merit? No, it has natural Te. Yet it affects those who come in contact with it.

 

My own experience, merit can only be distilled to one thing: Intention. So the basic consequence of that is that when you practice something, from meditating to prayer, do it for the whole world and from your heart.

 

We are all doing whatever we are doing for the whole universe anyway. So I work at loving and forgiving myself for being the messed up schmuck that I am, and when I meet parts of what I deny in myself in others, I try to accept and forgive that also.

 

Merit is about not keeping score. It's being generous for no reason.

 

This is my experience.

 

h

Edited May 8, 2012 by hagar

[Mokona]

Yes, its possible. By cultivation you awaken virtue and make it more and more an expression of your character. Then whatever actions you perform are of a pure nature, yielding merit in the form of good karma.

 

From the yogic perspective, there are three qualities of Nature that permeate all creation vibrationally. These are sattva (elevating), rajas (passionate, activating) and tamas (negative, obstructing). Most people are functioning mostly within the realm of rajas and tamas, with little sattva here and there. Even the three main nerves or channels of the body, are related to the three qualities. Ida and pingala, or solar and lunar nerve, are the double helix running from the base of spine to the brow around the central sushumna channel in the spine. People's energy moves in these two auxiliary channels until by spiritual development they are able to enter into the sushumna by meditation and control of qi. These two channels are expressing rajas and tamas, respectively. Only the sushumna express purity and virtue, or sattva. Further, the higher you go in the sushumna from the base of the spine to the brain, the nearer you are to increasingly more spiritual qualities, until at last you go beyond all the qualities, including sattva (this occurs once you get to the point where the three nerves unite in the brow point, thereafter you are functioning between the brow and crown, which is the region of freedom from delusion. A golden ball and chain is still a ball and chain, and in order to go beyond karma itself, beyond merit and demerit itself, is the result of true enlightenment. This is the essence of the Taoist concept of action without action.

 

I see my point of view as being similar, but from a different perspective. As energy work and meditation opens up fuller expression of being human through the biological processes and hormones, we as humans are able to show new behaviors and personality traits. It's not so much virture being developed unless your practicing from a positive world view, as a negetive one will still open the channels and develop chi but bring out a more negetive person.

 

A simple experiment is to meditate a few weeks while feeling fearful, which is a normal state to some extent for some. You'll not develop virtue, but might notice a feeling of "walking on eggshells."

 

In my own opinion, which may completely differ - virtue/good merit are pretty words but have no substance outside of another's perception of you. Meditation of the Taoist type, or even yogi, sufi, or western cultivation doesn't automaticly make anyone more virtuous.

 

Going out and woring for a charity 'might' Try that first.

[rex]

What I am asking is, is it possible for one to cultivate good merit by Taoist practices alone. Thanks.

Not sure if Taoists have the same ideas on merit as Buddhists but why not? As long as the practices work for the benefit of self and other and includes somewhere a vast attitude there is merit from the Buddhist point of view irrespective of whether you're a card carrying Buddhist or not. It is said that if you genuinely rejoice in the merit, good works and accomplishments of others then you also get to share in the merit. What a generous universe we live in!

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Taoism definitely talks about common virtues like benevolence or generosity, humility and forbearance, but is maybe unique in stressing that they should be spontaneous. I'm quite sure somewhere in the Tao Te Ching it mentions how heaven gives benefit without thought to giving, and the earth bears without expectation of reward. This, to me, is the "sincerity" I think the thing for humanity is that we are in the middle, and in the middle of us is the heart, the middle dantien.

 

So cultivating the virtue of the heart allows for us to have sincerity of virtues and thus act on these virtues spontaneously, like Heaven and Earth.

 

Merit can mean different things however. From a Taoist perspective, I think it would mainly mean that if your heart is not pure, there are gods and spirits who will think twice before letting you come into knowledge. So the more pure our heart is, the more we can be entrusted with, the more we will be open and humble enough to learn, and thus to become harmonious with ourselves and life.

 

So spontaneity is a big part of it in my opinion, since openness to spontaneity allows oneself to act from that part of them which is connected to Tao in the same way as the Heavens and the Earth.

 

Taoist meditation has a lot to do with allowing and following, relaxing the muscles and the joints so that the chi can move through the body unhindered in order to nourish everything around it. This practice can aid in allowing ourselves to act from Tao in our interactions with the world, not forcing, taking when given, and supporting the beneficial actions all around us. "Practicing the non-practice" if you will...

[thelerner]

 

I definitely don't think there's some kind of points system. Hehe, that's an amusing thought though. "I'm only 10,000 merit points away from unlocking my second siddhi! I'd better get back to grinding!"

Really, I've always thought you were OVER 9,000!

[amoyaan]

I'm not really sure if I get the concept of 'merit'. Does it mean you're kind of accruing points, like if you reach a certain number you become enlightened? I'm really sure if it's a numbers game as such. Is merit just another term for good karma, I wonder? Like others have said, I believe that anything done from the heart and with positive intent to help and heal creates good energy/karma.

[rex]

I'm not really sure if I get the concept of 'merit'. Does it mean you're kind of accruing points, like if you reach a certain number you become enlightened? I'm really sure if it's a numbers game as such. Is merit just another term for good karma, I wonder? Like others have said, I believe that anything done from the heart and with positive intent to help and heal creates good energy/karma.

There was a thread on this a while back:

Winning Brownie Points

[Cat Pillar]

Really, I've always thought you were OVER 9,000!

 

Hehehe, well-played!

 

At least the balls aren't inert.

[goldenfox]

If by 'merit' you are not addressing the results of good actions, ie; karma, then it can also perhaps refer to the results of tapas (austerity) which is punya (merit). Cultivation is bit like earning money. You then have to decide how you will spend that money.

[Vmarco]

You can erase negative karma with compassion/forgiveness for all parties involved Although it likely compounds if you repeat the deed again.

 

Good karma just requires positive influence towards the collective humanity in general. (imo)

 

Sounds like Gurdjieff,..."...consider externally always, internally never."

 

Or Shantideva saying, "All the joy the world contains, Has come through wishing happiness for others. All the misery the world contains, Has come through wanting pleasure for oneself."

 

Unfortunately, individual fears, perceived needs, competition, protection, etc., takes precedence over any meaningful impluse towards cultivating harmony within collective humanity.

[astralc]

Thats a good question when you look at it and some good replies.

 

Taoists generally aim to avoid brownie points, it keeps us 'in' or attached to the world in an awkward way. I would say that we aim to be able to fluidly attach and detach at the same time, being, just being, dasein. Seeking merit or good behaviour points inhibits the flow of the tao, it stifles the processes we work hard at achieving, wu wei would not be if we sought to find rewards for all we did.

 

So, putting a question like that on a taoist board is probably an antithesis to our roots, I am sure Lao Tsu wasn't interested in scoring merit or karma points when he wrote his book.

 

As a taoist once said, I shall pass through this world leaving no footprints.

 

JMHO

[C T]

Thats a good question when you look at it and some good replies.

 

Taoists generally aim to avoid brownie points, it keeps us 'in' or attached to the world in an awkward way. I would say that we aim to be able to fluidly attach and detach at the same time, being, just being, dasein. Seeking merit or good behaviour points inhibits the flow of the tao, it stifles the processes we work hard at achieving, wu wei would not be if we sought to find rewards for all we did.

 

So, putting a question like that on a taoist board is probably an antithesis to our roots, I am sure Lao Tsu wasn't interested in scoring merit or karma points when he wrote his book.

 

As a taoist once said, I shall pass through this world leaving no footprints.

 

JMHO

If someone cultivates to gain merit for themselves, then whatever merits gained will diminish over time.

 

True cultivation should descend to others equanimously. Not by intention, simply by the force that arise naturally when the cultivation is virtuous, without pride, full of generosity.

 

This is how peace and prosperity descended on the land, when it did in years gone by, thru the silent, self-effacing effort of authentic Taoist adepts.

 

JMHO.

Edited May 9, 2012 by C T

[Stosh]

 

Taoists generally aim to avoid brownie points,

As a taoist once said, I shall pass through this world leaving no footprints.

 

JMHO

 

Atypical me,

considers brownie points moot,

since theres ultimately no one to count them.

 

The past may be gone,

gone as gone can be,

but it's also written in stone

indestructable as the sea.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Stosh

[konchog uma]

In buddhism, it is said that the highest merit comes from liberating yourself. Just the light that you then can radiate into the world is worth more merit than good deeds or generosity or anything.

 

So that is pretty massive.