Are you proud of your nationality?

[Aetherous]

I live on Earth, nuff said!

 

 

"I'm a total frickin rock star from Mars, WINNING, come on bro I got tiger blood!"

[jeffrito]

Are you proud of your nationality?

 

Do you feel special different or special compared to people from different nations?

 

On a more granular level, do you think your county, state or city is special?

 

If so why?

 

Animals don't recognise borders of nations.

 

Why should we?

 

??? its what your wording and other responses indicate - I apologize if I have misunderstood you

 

You did misunderstand. I do not want "a world with no distinction where everyone becomes one greyness...".

 

I venture that our conceptions about our Irishness or our Englishness or Americanness or Jehova's Witness-ness are just unnecessary delusions the yard stick of which is constantly changing.

 

For example, I imagine that being German for many people was very different during WW2 than it is today.

[jeffrito]

Englishness just like every single thing when you break it down far enough doesn't exist, so it is hard to define exactly as this one thing, especially as things vary a lot from region to region and like everything else it is always changing. But I guess it can be defined by certain psychology which is influenced by all sorts of things from the entire history of the country and the landscape itself; the mentality of a people is very much influenced by its weather, its plants and animals, its food and drink, beer, it's religious history.

 

Recently I have been feeling closer to my country by connecting to the land, by going on Pilgrimages to all the amazing ancient sacred sites many of which are Celtic and Pagan and earlier where you can still connect to the spirit of the place. If you believe in Shamanism we have spirits unique to our land, at one point White Horses were carved all over our hills which some believe is out mother spirit.

 

 

People seem to be ashamed of having pride in England these days because nationalism has been hijacked by the far right and hooligans, today is our national day St George's day and you hardly hear anything about it, people tend to celebrate St Patrick's day more which is strange, but I think there are many things here which are worth appreciating.

 

I can understand a love for the land a lot better.

 

I love England.

 

And what I really mean by this is the flora and fauna. The peaks of the lake district and the beaches of Cornwall and yes even the grey skies of London.

 

But I'd hate my country to define my outlook on life.

 

If I say I'm a Celt for example like some in the British Isles do, it's generally only their version of being a celt complete with their filters.

 

The Celts originally came from Ukraine. You don't get many with a true affinity to that, only what they think that should be massaged by 2000 years of politics.

[eye_of_the_storm]

You did misunderstand. I do not want "a world with no distinction where everyone becomes one greyness...".

 

I venture that our conceptions about our Irishness or our Englishness or Americanness or Jehova's Witness-ness are just unnecessary delusions the yard stick of which is constantly changing.

 

For example, I imagine that being German for many people was very different during WW2 than it is today.

 

 

I agree - the same can be applied to oneself / personality also

 

but i would also say the past informs the future... there is still a connection between the Germans then and now... so its a progression and the progression / time/ development etc is how you end up with a "british person" etc... its a common thread tying them together, cultural identity and so on... which is always changing... is 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000 years of collective progression/ experience delusion? maybe

 

I am sorry if i have come on too strong

 

In terms of there being no borders - I was too once of this mentally... what I would now call (for myself) misguided idealism.

 

Logistically /infrastructure + environmentally/sustainability - to dissolve borders in terms of countries and peoples would cause chaos.

 

What if 100 million people decided to up and leave and place themselves in your backyard?

Edited April 23, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

One could apply this progression and cultural identity to Taoism and Buddhism

 

are they too delusion to maintain this identity? culture also includes philosophies, teachings etc

[steve]

Are you proud of your nationality? No, I am me and cannot presume to feel better about myself because of where I happened to be born. I am opposed to nationalism, just another polarizing force in the world.

 

Do you feel special different or special compared to people from different nations? I feel fortunate that I live in a "developed" nation where I have plenty of food and drinkable water but otherwise, no.

 

On a more granular level, do you think your county, state or city is special? Nostalgic, yes. Special, no.

 

If so why?

 

Animals don't recognise borders of nations.

 

Why should we? It's a foolish distraction used for control.

 

EDIT - added "of nations".

[jeffrito]

One could apply this progression and cultural identity to Taoism and Buddhism

 

are they too delusion to maintain this identity? culture also includes philosophies, teachings etc

 

Yes I think so.

 

I think they are just vehicles. Once the destination has been reached the vehicle can be left behind.

 

That's not to say we can't get wisdom from them but we shouldn't cling to them. (Also maybe these ideas are completely wrong)

 

If I was to say "I am a Buddhist" I think it says more about what I am not (e.g. a Christian, a Muslim etc) than what I am.

 

I'd prefer not to define myself quite so rigidly.

 

I'm going to add that this is all very idealistic and of course in reality I do feel some sense of national pride. We've been conditioned that way so there's no need to feel ashamed about it. But I also think it is a layer that just isn't necessary.

 

Finally, I am very grateful for circumstances I was born into.

[Mokona]

Finnish and Portugues, but man. I wish I spoke those languages! Otherwise, i'm American. I don't feel a particular pride in those facts, but damnit the culture and food is great! and it's easy to make friends when they hear your Fin or Potagee, and they are too.

[Sunya]

good post Steve

[eye_of_the_storm]

Yes I think so.

 

I think they are just vehicles. Once the destination has been reached the vehicle can be left behind.

 

That's not to say we can't get wisdom from them but we shouldn't cling to them. (Also maybe these ideas are completely wrong)

 

If I was to say "I am a Buddhist" I think it says more about what I am not (e.g. a Christian, a Muslim etc) than what I am.

 

I'd prefer not to define myself quite so rigidly.

 

I'm going to add that this is all very idealistic and of course in reality I do feel some sense of national pride. We've been conditioned that way so there's no need to feel ashamed about it. But I also think it is a layer that just isn't necessary.

 

Finally, I am very grateful for circumstances I was born into.

 

I agree: In being nothing, one becomes everything? = no limitations on the self / no idea of self but there is still Self?

 

I think these things are important - though we have to ground these abstract ideas and place/ work them into "reality"

 

So we have to meet half way - "Heaven and Earth" ?

 

You should consult your heart to whether or not the love of your country etc is valid / rather than conditioned... I believe some is conditioned and some is real.

 

I liken myself as a cosmopolitan (adjective)

free from local prejudices; worldly

 

but also recognize we don't live in a perfect world (or do we? ...from my limited perspective as to the nature of this reality)

 

I also feel love of my country (not in a government sense etc), my ancestors and myself... I thank the Tao.

 

They say the highest/ the only form of blasphemy is to say... I am not worthy, I am not special, I am nothing... we are all here to recognize our oneness with the Great Tao - Is the Great Tao...not worthy?

Edited April 24, 2012 by White Wolf Running On Air

[dwai]

You forgot to mention eating rollmops, and fish & chips packed in Wall St Journal newspapers!

I heard luke-warm beer is quite a hit as well...

[therion]

I am only proud of my internal power.

 

The rest is all bullshit.

[Aetherous]

I am opposed to nationalism, just another polarizing force in the world.

 

...but being opposed to nationalism is just another polarizing force in the world as well.

 

What's wrong with people celebrating their roots?

[jeffrito]

...but being opposed to nationalism is just another polarizing force in the world as well.

 

What's wrong with people celebrating their roots?

 

It creates an unnatural (and invented) separation.

 

Europeans often find American's claims to their roots utterrly hilarious.

 

There's a great quote in the Soprano's where Tony Soprano's crew go to Sicily. When the mob turn their nose up at the food and ask for meatballs and spaghetti, one of the locals says "and we though the germans (were bad)"

[Moonbar]

I live on Earth, nuff said!

 

 

Now this post says it all - this is how we should all be thinking

[Aetherous]

It creates an unnatural (and invented) separation.

 

...and being opposed to an unnatural and invented separation, causes more unnatural and invented separation.

 

I guess you've always gotta maintain balance, and that includes keeping the hatred alive in some form. If it's uncouth to hate people from another country, now you are allowed to hate people who hate people from other countries.

 

It's just pure hypocrisy, that is typical of shallow spiritual style thinking (no offense to steve or anyone else, I don't think he is shallow, hypocritical or wrong...just sharing an alternative way of looking at this point).

 

"There has to be no separation in my thinking!"...oh wait, just by attempting to do that you're creating separation between separating and not-separating. It would be better to attempt nothing, and just be natural like everyone else.

 

Can we accept that the world is filled with people who identify with made up things, who derive much pleasure and meaning from doing that? Can we see that by pointing out all of the things which, theoretically, may be contrived, we are becoming even more contrived than those things?

[steve]

Anthony Demello tells a funny story about borders - I'll try to briefly paraphrase it.

During the time when the borders were being drawn between Russia and Finland, people whose property straddled the neutral zone were forced to declare their loyalty to either Finland or Russia. Naturally, many people were concerned that choosing Finland could lead to repercusions from the Russians. On the other hand, they were not excited about being under Russian rule. An old farmer was approached by a Russian soldier and asked to declare his loyalty, to which he replied Finland!

When asked to explain why he would choose Finland over Russia he replied,

"Because at my age, sir, I don't think I could survive another Russian winter!"

[jeffrito]

...and being opposed to an unnatural and invented separation, causes more unnatural and invented separation.

 

I guess you've always gotta maintain balance, and that includes keeping the hatred alive in some form. If it's uncouth to hate people from another country, now you are allowed to hate people who hate people from other countries.

 

It's just pure hypocrisy, that is typical of shallow spiritual style thinking (no offense to steve or anyone else, I don't think he is shallow, hypocritical or wrong...just sharing an alternative way of looking at this point).

 

"There has to be no separation in my thinking!"...oh wait, just by attempting to do that you're creating separation between separating and not-separating. It would be better to attempt nothing, and just be natural like everyone else.

 

Can we accept that the world is filled with people who identify with made up things, who derive much pleasure and meaning from doing that? Can we see that by pointing out all of the things which, theoretically, may be contrived, we are becoming even more contrived than those things?

 

I have never mentioned hate. This is your word. I don't hate anyone.

 

I'm just saying some of these things are invented and we don't actually need them and it's a question I specifically raise to people on the path, not anyone else.

 

I can and do accept the world is filled with people who identify with made up things. That is the way of things.

[Moderator team]

Moved into "Off Topic".

(Interesting question, though. )

/mod squad out

[Protector]

God bless you, Mod Squad!

*Salute*

[Thunder_Gooch]

While I am grateful we aren't as bad off as many countries, I am not proud of what my country does to others and it's own people.

 

So while I love the country I am apart of, I am not proud of it's actions.

[thelerner]

Yes, while leery of Nationalism, I can say I'm proud to be a US citizen. Certain the U.S, is and has been far from perfect, but we've had some core principles that have been increasingly picked up by the world that have imo made it a better place.

 

In WW II there was only a handful of democracies, now there are over 90(?) I think. Democracy tend to be progressive and make change possible. Again, its only as good as its leaders, but in democracy you have a chance for change, vs. dictatorship. A free press, checks and balances.

 

I've back packed around Europe and the Middle East. I like Europe and would be proud to live there, but its the way it is because America saved it from Germany, and Russia. For all the wrong we've done, After WW II we won and created the blue print and funded some enlightened democracies in Germany and Japan which lit the flame around the world.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I like Europe and would be proud to live there, but its the way it is because America saved it from Germany, and Russia.

 

 

American history as taught by Americans, at it`s finest.

 

Don`t forget that Hitler`s army was first bankrolled by Americans, allowing him to actually have an army. If the US didn't finally join the war, it would have been owing quite a bit to the rest of the world that was fighting the Nazis when it was all finally finished. Seems the US was starting to look a bit too complicit by waiting so long to take a side. I think most of the US citizens were on the right (left) side, but the powers that made decisions would turn faster than ballerinas.

 

Everything good about the US has come from the marginalized fighting against the real hegemonies of the country, and then the powers that be take credit those successes and use them as a credit to their own power. The US would be just another face in the crowd if not for failing to suppress it`s citizens time and time again.

 

The fact of the matter is that US citizens are like everybody else, and want the things that everybody else wants, ie, peace and prosperity. The power of the government has enabled some of this virtue to influence other governments, but to think the US is different is a nationalized tunnel vision of self-congratulation.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Are you proud of your nationality?

 

Do you feel special different or special compared to people from different nations?

 

On a more granular level, do you think your county, state or city is special?

 

If so why?

 

Animals don't recognise borders of nations.

 

Why should we?

 

EDIT - added "of nations".

 

Do I feel different? Sure. I'm sure things would be a bit more chill if I was surrounded by nature and warm weather all year round.

 

Special? Like I won the birth lottery just to be born in Canada rather than the middle of a war zone or surrounded by abject poverty.

 

However, I generally take issue with random nationalism (even) for Canada which only divides everyone and participates in finding one's own transgressions in other people.

 

 

I was however, reflecting today on how glad I am to live in Canada where if I feel like I have signs of kidney failure (see recent post in TTB Healing Circle) I don`t have to worry about being sure before I go to a hospital and spend my last red cent on treatments! Whew! Thank GOD!!

[Birch]

We all ride on red double-decker buses around Big Ben and drink tea out of fine china teacups with our little finger standing upright. We play tennis and polo and eat strawberries.

We all wear black bowler hats, carry briefcases and umbrellas, read the financial times and commute to London daily on the train.

 

NOT !

 

I saw a bloke in a bowler just the other day. He knew I knew what his hat was (we 'looked') but I walked on by speedily on the platform. NOT EVEN IN ENGLAND it was.