Is all this stuff really needed

[AЯAB]

I've had this thought for a while and I wanted to just put it out there.

 

Did Buddha, Lao Tzu, or many other masters/prophets really do such practices? It sort of brings you into a new world to worry about things you didn't even think of before, but is it really necesarry.

 

I always thought that when you truly attain union with source/tao/universe/god (whatever you want to call it) wouldn't everything already be fulfilled? I highly doubt that prophets such as Buddha or Muhammad even did such practices. It feels like it goes against source to try to manipulate what is already there.

 

I don't know maybe this is my lazy way of looking at this LOL. When I first joined this forum I was interested in learning about qi gong(tai chi, internal alchemy) thinking this is what I need. I have great respect for taoist path, it is what opened up my fears to explore the spiritual and mystical. Kudo's to everyone putting the time in to doing all these practices!!!!!!!

[steve]

I think practices have value.

Also, letting go of practices has value.

One of the most important lessons we learn from/about our practices is that, ultimately, they are not needed.

But Peter Fenner puts it beautifully when he says, "If we hadn't done what we didn't need to do we wouldn't know that we didn't need to do it!"

 

Awareness is the the only thing that is utterly necessary, IMO.

 

You may want to read some Jiddu Krishnamurti, if you haven't already.

[三江源]

My hair is straight I want it to be curly I'm going to get it permed I just had my hair permed now I have curly hair I didnt need to get that perm cos my hair is curly, I can see it is.

[Thunder_Gooch]

The goals of spirituality are as numerous as their are practices. The answer to your question depends on your goal for your practice.

 

Do you have a clearly defined goal?

 

If so what is it?

 

 

Some schools teach a philosophy, in which case no work need be done.

 

Some schools teach how to build a spiritual body to carry your consciousness past death in which case work does need to be done.

 

And there is everything in between too.

 

There is an overwhelming amount of disinformation available on the internet on the subject, look for the schools that get results, don't bother with those who don't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've had this thought for a while and I wanted to just put it out there.

 

Did Buddha, Lao Tzu, or many other masters/prophets really do such practices? It sort of brings you into a new world to worry about things you didn't even think of before, but is it really necesarry.

 

I always thought that when you truly attain union with source/tao/universe/god (whatever you want to call it) wouldn't everything already be fulfilled? I highly doubt that prophets such as Buddha or Muhammad even did such practices. It feels like it goes against source to try to manipulate what is already there.

 

I don't know maybe this is my lazy way of looking at this LOL. When I first joined this forum I was interested in learning about qi gong(tai chi, internal alchemy) thinking this is what I need. I have great respect for taoist path, it is what opened up my fears to explore the spiritual and mystical. Kudo's to everyone putting the time in to doing all these practices!!!!!!!

Edited April 13, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[steve]

My hair is straight I want it to be curly I'm going to get it permed I just had my hair permed now I have curly hair I didnt need to get that perm cos my hair is curly, I can see it is.

Ahh, but it's straight in the first place because of all the shampoo, conditioner, and brushing that we do to look presentable.... So if just let all that go, it would have been curly anyway!

[三江源]

Ahh, but it's straight in the first place because of all the shampoo, conditioner, and brushing that we do to look presentable.... So if just let all that go, it would have been curly anyway!

 

ah! So we need to do LESS.

[Jetsun]

My understanding is that we do all this stuff like meditation in order to stop doing things we are already doing, so it is training in doing nothing or unlearning, so if you can do nothing already then you don't need any of it. They say meditation begins when you stop doing it.

 

The Buddha apparently gained enlightenment when he stopped doing all that stuff and let go, but he did a lot of practices before hand which may have helped bring into consciousness what he needed to let go of. If you are not fully aware you are doing something you can't stop doing it.

[idquest]

IME when we work with qi we might get insights. Certainly, those insights are far from being as deep and profound as those attained by Teachers. So we have two options. First - put our hope on attaining the Oneness with the Tao in one big jump. Or getting small steps up the ladder. Perhaps this is a personality issue: some would prefer the first option, some - the second.

[Mal]

but is it really necessary.

 

Not really, everything living already KNOWS.

 

But we are taught and learn and tend to lose trust in what we KNOW so there are many methods to help us remember whats already there.

[orb]

All this stuff is really needed for some people and for others not.

 

The question you should ask is "Do <<I>> really need all this"

 

And guess who is (the only one) that can give you the answer?

[de_paradise]

In general physical practises, qigong practises cultivate the body, that can lead to various siddhis, and also advance one towards non-duality. Mind only practises, such as sitting meditation are a more direct way to the final goal of liberation.

Edited April 14, 2012 by de_paradise

[Aaron]

I've had this thought for a while and I wanted to just put it out there.

 

Did Buddha, Lao Tzu, or many other masters/prophets really do such practices? It sort of brings you into a new world to worry about things you didn't even think of before, but is it really necesarry.

 

I always thought that when you truly attain union with source/tao/universe/god (whatever you want to call it) wouldn't everything already be fulfilled? I highly doubt that prophets such as Buddha or Muhammad even did such practices. It feels like it goes against source to try to manipulate what is already there.

 

I don't know maybe this is my lazy way of looking at this LOL. When I first joined this forum I was interested in learning about qi gong(tai chi, internal alchemy) thinking this is what I need. I have great respect for taoist path, it is what opened up my fears to explore the spiritual and mystical. Kudo's to everyone putting the time in to doing all these practices!!!!!!!

 

You don't NEED any philosophy or religion. I'm a firm believer that through meditation and introspection you can understand your original nature and connection to the world on your own. Of course examining religions and philosophies objectively isn't harmful either, just remember that for every truth there is a lie. If you can avoid absolutes you'll do fine. In the meantime I would still suggest, and I honestly mean suggest, that if you are interested in becoming more aware of your relationship to this existence, that you might want to entertain the idea of meditating. Silent mind meditation is my own preferred method. All it takes is finding a comfortable and quiet place to sit, closing your eyes and silencing your mind. If you'd like some more information regarding the practice, I'd be happy to share, but if you don't feel like practicing that is absolutely wonderful too. Live your life as best you can, do no harm to others or yourself, and you'll be one of the highest level practitioners on the face of the earth.

 

Best wishes on your journey,

 

Aaron

Edited April 14, 2012 by Twinner

[Gerard]

Did Buddha, Lao Tzu, or many other masters/prophets really do such practices?

 

Check this out:

 

1. Buddhism

 

 

 

Ajahn Chah living in the forest for 50 years mindfully.

 

Confronting the self could be like walking into a raging storm.

 

How do you think you are going to battle this? By reading books or chatting online?

 

Lifetime after lifetime making the same mistakes over and over again, and you expect sudden enlightenment by doing nothing or very little in just one? This must be a joke and above all an insult to the Buddha, the sages, ascetics, monastics and all the spiritual practitioners that sacrificed everything for the most noble quest of all: spiritual enligthtenment.

 

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5902279151658995270#

 

 

2. Daoism

 

http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Dragon-Gate-Making-Modern/dp/0804831858

 

 

3. Christian mysticism

 

 

http://www.thelastanchoritefilm.co.uk/#

 

 

Get off you "royal ass" and start practicing for real.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Gerard

[Edward M]

Gerard,

 

I believe he was referring to 'energy practices' that have to do with storing qi, and not meditation/mindfulness practices.

 

Peace

Ed

 

**interesting video's, thanks for posting ** edit

Edited April 14, 2012 by Edward M

[johndoe2012]

Find something you resonate with.

 

What Buddha or Lao Tzu did is purely speculation.

[Birch]

I like what Jetsun said. I also like a distinction made by Eva Wong in her "Shambala Guide to Taoism" book.

The way I understand what she wrote was that mysticism produces certain manifestations and that certain practices can also engender the experiences of mysticism. She also made further commentary on the relationship between mysticism and shamanism. I reckon got missed out in that part (but it's just my opinion :-)) was that the benefits of shamanism are not intended to be just for the practitioner themselves. In fact primarily are for others.

[mewtwo]

in a word no. in a longer explanation if you want to stay fit and extend this precious life you have then kung fu qigong etc are the way to go but so is playing baseball. you still get your exercise. but this energy stuff is like frosting you can eat it or scrap it off. i know i am in the minority here with my views but they are just my views i could be perfectly sane for all i know. lol

[johndoe2012]

in a word no. in a longer explanation if you want to stay fit and extend this precious life you have then kung fu qigong etc are the way to go but so is playing baseball. you still get your exercise. but this energy stuff is like frosting you can eat it or scrap it off. i know i am in the minority here with my views but they are just my views i could be perfectly sane for all i know. lol

 

Baseball does not have heaven-earth integration so eventually will deplete your energy while eg gentle circle walking, tai chi etc will enhance. I think taomeow talks a bit about this in her posts.